bob58o
SuckSqueezeBangBlow
It is dual AC/DC circuit breaker in my key box.
125-250V AC
32V DC.
5 AMPS.
There must be a diode, else I would still be reading AC.
Predator Lighting Coil
- Thread starter bob58o
- Start date
It is dual AC/DC circuit breaker in my key box.
125-250V AC
32V DC.
5 AMPS.
There must be a diode, else I would still be reading AC.
Okie dokie, so im thinking prolly swap to a 15 amp breaker and since I'm going to be using a rectifier/regulator is there any need for the diode at all or do u think i can just locate and remove it? Also got flywheel and stator in today so I'm getting excited lol hope I'm not bothering you too much
bob58o
SuckSqueezeBangBlow
Not a bother at all.
The diode takes the AC output from the single wire coil and turns it into DC. The output is half wave rectified. So my output is pulsating DC.
With a two wire coil, you use a rectifier/regulator. It takes the place of the diode. Rectifier/Regulator is better This changes the AC output from the coils to DC as well. It is more efficient (full wave vs half wave). You get steady output voltage (instead of pulsating like me). And it sets the output voltage where you need it. If it outputs constant and steady 14.4 volts at 3600 RPM, then it still outputs constant and steady 14.4 Volts at 6000 RPM.
Depending on the regulator, you might need a diode on the output going to the positive of the battery. I think some have them built in. I saw some that said a diode was needed to prevent current flow back from the battery.
As for the breaker.. I'm not 100% sure how you plan to wire it.
You could probably run an AC circuit breaker before the rectifier and a DC fuse after it.
Circuitry is not one of my strong areas.
I got ya, well here's another one off question I got my flywheel and stator n right now I'm lapping it, so my question is when you lapped ur flywheel did ur shaft come flush to the end of the flywheel? I feel like I'm stopped at about an eighth of an inch til it's flush, is this normal and the torquing is what gets it flush or am I supposed to lap til shaft and end of flywheel are flush?
---------- Post added at 08:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 PM ----------
Also as far as the breaker im pretty sure i can pind a push type acdc breaker for marine purpse which is what im assuming it has in it or at least something fairly equivalent so I'm just gonna follow normal keybox wiring and upgrade some components
---------- Post added at 08:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 PM ----------
Also as far as the breaker im pretty sure i can pind a push type acdc breaker for marine purpse which is what im assuming it has in it or at least something fairly equivalent so I'm just gonna follow normal keybox wiring and upgrade some components
bob58o
SuckSqueezeBangBlow
I think the end of the flywheel bore extends past the crank taper. I don't think the taper sticks out any. I noticed that too.
I don't think torquing the flywheel will make much of difference. You'll still probably have that 1/8".
If using a key, make sure the key is parallel with the actual shaft and NOT parallel with the taper.
I don't think torquing the flywheel will make much of difference. You'll still probably have that 1/8".
If using a key, make sure the key is parallel with the actual shaft and NOT parallel with the taper.
Okie dokie I think I'm all set bob thanks a million as soon as I get all my parts I'm gonna start a thread for it 
I'll be watching ur latest build too, that torque cam sounds interesting, like something that might push a fellas boat up current a lil better
I'll be watching ur latest build too, that torque cam sounds interesting, like something that might push a fellas boat up current a lil better
bob58o
SuckSqueezeBangBlow
Well I bolted the engine to the buggy.
I only used two bolts.
It should have been running for about an hour now.
I left it unattended in my buddy's garage.
I feel pretty dumb. I assumed that I can turn the idle speed screw up as much as I wanted and that the governor would control it to 3600 RPM. How can the governor push the throttle closed when the idle speed screw is holding it open? It can't.
I left it running at 4200 RPM set by the idle speed screw. This probably means no tension on the governor system. I guess I will find out if it blew up when I go back there in 10 minutes.
My tachometer that came with no battery also wasn't working very well.
Turned on the engine.
It starting running at a healthy 5,040 RPM.
Checked the Voltage 14.2 - 14.3 DC Volts.
Turned the idle speed screw down till I got to ~3600 RPM.
Only 10ish Volts.
Turned the idle speed screw until I got to 4200 RPM.
12 Volts.
Seems I might have to spin this flywheel faster than I originally wanted.
If the flywheel needs to spin 4800-5000 RPM to get above 14 volts - then I probably want peak HP at 4800 RPM or above. Along with a Torque Converter tuned to stay in low gear until RPMs get close to Peak HP.
I only used two bolts.
It should have been running for about an hour now.
I left it unattended in my buddy's garage.
I feel pretty dumb. I assumed that I can turn the idle speed screw up as much as I wanted and that the governor would control it to 3600 RPM. How can the governor push the throttle closed when the idle speed screw is holding it open? It can't.
I left it running at 4200 RPM set by the idle speed screw. This probably means no tension on the governor system. I guess I will find out if it blew up when I go back there in 10 minutes.
My tachometer that came with no battery also wasn't working very well.
Turned on the engine.
It starting running at a healthy 5,040 RPM.
Checked the Voltage 14.2 - 14.3 DC Volts.
Turned the idle speed screw down till I got to ~3600 RPM.
Only 10ish Volts.
Turned the idle speed screw until I got to 4200 RPM.
12 Volts.
Seems I might have to spin this flywheel faster than I originally wanted.
If the flywheel needs to spin 4800-5000 RPM to get above 14 volts - then I probably want peak HP at 4800 RPM or above. Along with a Torque Converter tuned to stay in low gear until RPMs get close to Peak HP.
bob58o
SuckSqueezeBangBlow
The silence walking to garage was scary.
Did it blow up?
Did it run out of gas?
Nothing appears to have blown up.
Unless it did at the same time it ran out of gas.
I didn't feel like changing the oil.
So I guess break in is done.
Just need to remember to warm up the engine and change the oil before it is really done.
I was a bit surprised to only get 12 Volts at 4200 RPM.
When I was reading 14.3 with no tachometer, I assumed I was at 3600 RPM - but APPARENTLY I was at 5k RPM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz5TGN7eUcM
Did it blow up?
Did it run out of gas?
Nothing appears to have blown up.
Unless it did at the same time it ran out of gas.
I didn't feel like changing the oil.
So I guess break in is done.
Just need to remember to warm up the engine and change the oil before it is really done.
I was a bit surprised to only get 12 Volts at 4200 RPM.
When I was reading 14.3 with no tachometer, I assumed I was at 3600 RPM - but APPARENTLY I was at 5k RPM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz5TGN7eUcM
zogthegreat
New member
Is there any way to adjust the voltage regulator so that the output is 14.3 @ 3600?
bob58o
SuckSqueezeBangBlow
Well I am not using a voltage regulator.
And I am pretty sure the input voltage needs to be higher than the output voltage with the type of regulator I do have.
I suppose I'd need a step up / step down voltage regulator?
Buck-boost converter?
https://www.amazon.com/DROK-Regulat...ytz38zanb98u3_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&s=industrial
Attachments
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regulator.jpg
zogthegreat
New member
If you could find a way to get your output voltage to be around 14.4 @ 3600 rpm, then you could use a step down converter to keep it there at higher rpms.
Does anyone want to take an educated guess at the output current or power of this coil? No, this not a test. I have it on the way and called Monster Scooter but they didn't have a clue.
Attachments
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charging-coil-predator-212cc-engine_1.jpg
bob58o
SuckSqueezeBangBlow
In this case, I'm guessing two wires means AC output. You can test with a multimeter.
With something like that, I think a 3 prong regulator / rectifier would be appropriate. Two inputs for the two AC wires from the stator. One output wire for DC+. DC (ground) is the chassis (or where ever the rectifier / regulator is mounted).
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073H344V...mN&pd_rd_r=RVZB4TTZT43T85ZFJ19F&pd_rd_w=taJxv
I think there are some two wire systems where one wire is for the light (accessory) and the other is for charging the battery. I don't think this is that, but not 100% sure.
Ask somebody with a Baja minibike. Do the lights flicker at low RPM? Do they get brighter and "steadier" at higher RPM? If so, then I think the output is AC.
With something like that, I think a 3 prong regulator / rectifier would be appropriate. Two inputs for the two AC wires from the stator. One output wire for DC+. DC (ground) is the chassis (or where ever the rectifier / regulator is mounted).
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073H344V...mN&pd_rd_r=RVZB4TTZT43T85ZFJ19F&pd_rd_w=taJxv
I think there are some two wire systems where one wire is for the light (accessory) and the other is for charging the battery. I don't think this is that, but not 100% sure.
Ask somebody with a Baja minibike. Do the lights flicker at low RPM? Do they get brighter and "steadier" at higher RPM? If so, then I think the output is AC.
Hay Bob! Very insightful read was Stage 1. As a new Yerf owner I look forward to reading your Stage 2 and 3 but I'm not at that point. I've only had the thing for 5 days, new paint and 212 finally got it out in the yard today.
Yea, everything you wrote I already figure out. Picked up a B&S reg that's good up for 16A but the question still is the coil power. I'm hoping 50W since I have 36W in LED's on the way. I'll probably just monitor AC voltage while applying load and hope there is no significant voltage drop. Thanks for the reply.
Yea, everything you wrote I already figure out. Picked up a B&S reg that's good up for 16A but the question still is the coil power. I'm hoping 50W since I have 36W in LED's on the way. I'll probably just monitor AC voltage while applying load and hope there is no significant voltage drop. Thanks for the reply.
bob58o
SuckSqueezeBangBlow
It is probably 36 or 50Watts.
If you read my entire first Hemi build thread, I'm sorry. LOL
KartFab
Active member
4-6 amp is my guess because 1 of those is usually 2-3, so two makes 6?
NewbCarter
Member
DC-DC buck converter would be my choice . Along with a 14V+ regulator.
Buck makes sure your minimum is above needed 14+V , regulator makes sure you dont go too high and fry something.
Maybe a small capacitor bank to filter out the fluctuation in the lower RPM range.
Buck makes sure your minimum is above needed 14+V , regulator makes sure you dont go too high and fry something.
Maybe a small capacitor bank to filter out the fluctuation in the lower RPM range.
bob58o
SuckSqueezeBangBlow
I thought DC_DC buck converter is a step down voltage regulator?
A Switching Regulator that uses feedback to actively change pulse width to make output voltage equal to your desired voltage.
Or are you saying that a buck converter will step down the voltage by a fixed amount and output voltage will vary as input voltages varies?
Here are the specs for the DC-DC adjustable waterproof buck converter I have...
I'm aware the max continuous current might be a bit low for my application.
Module Properties: non-isolated voltage step-down module (buck)
Input voltage : DC 5.5-32V
Output Voltage : DC 1-27V adjustable
Lowest dropout: 2V, the input voltage must be higher than the output voltage 2V
Operating temperature: -40 to +85 °c
Operating frequency: 300KHz
Conversion efficiency: up to 92%
Protection: over-current protection; over temperature protection
Adopts synchronous rectification technology, high conversion efficiency and low heat
Embedding technology and aluminum shell, waterproof, dust-proof, moisture-proof
Wiring: Red: Input+;Black: Common-;Yellow:Output+
Conversion:12V to 5V, 24V to 3.7V/4.2V/5V/6V/9V/12V,etc.
Output Current: 5A Maximum
5V output: recommended 4A continuous
6-9V output: recommended 3A continuous
10-15V output: recommended 2.5A continuous
Please note:
1.This unit with no reverse polarity protection, please properly connected.
2.If use for battery,please install a separate output diode to stop the battery from feeding back and damaging the unit.
You do mean AC Volts above correct?
Just got my parts from Monster Scooter installed and finding the same. Idle @ 10 VAC and 16-18VAC at 4200 RPM. I've got my 36 watts of LED's installed and need DC for the Saturday day-bu to my Nephews. The Briggs regulator didn't like the input waveform at all. At 16-18 VAC in I was getting only 5VDC out. Looks like it's time to find a single phase rectifier in a parts bin and Digi-Key for a DC/DC converter. I'll let you know what I find. The one you have will only allow a 8VDC output when at idle there is only 10VAC.
bob58o
SuckSqueezeBangBlow
Nope. DC.
I checked the output with and without the diode.
Without the diode, I was getting around 30 VAC.
From an earlier post....
RMS AC Voltage = 30 Volts (measured)
http://www.bristolwatch.com/ele/basi...tification.htm
Peak Voltage = RMS Volts * 1.414 = 30 Volts * 1.414 = 42 Volts
Full Wave Rectified DC Voltage (measured) = Peak Voltage * 0.637 = 27 Volts
Half Wave Rectified DC Voltage (measured) = (Peak Voltage * 0.637) / 2 = (42V * 0.637) / 2 = 13.5 Volts.
If there is a diode in the key-box wiring (half wave rectifier), I expect to see 13.5 Volts based on the measured 30 Volts AC.
So I guess I would expect around 30+ RMS Volts AC measured at the stator's output at around 3600 RPM. A single diode (half wave rectification) will give ~13.5 Volts intheory. A full wave rectifier will give ~27 Volts if the input is 30VAC. Not sure why you are only getting 10VAC. Is there a load connected? I tested with one probe going to the block and the other probe on the end of the single wire coming from the stator. No load connected.
It seems like your 10 RMS Volts AC gives a peak voltage of 14.14 V. Half wave rectified would read 4.5 Volts.
---------- Post added at 01:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 AM ----------
I posted this in the next thread where I make performance mods to this engine.
My threads are like my thoughts. Scattered all over the place
Maybe you can tells me what this test shows me??? I don't really know how to use this information.
It shows RPMs and Voltage measured across the battery (with and without a 1 amp pump running). I up to this point have just taken China's word that this pump draws 1 amp. Have not tested.
(Approximately!!! +/15 RPM +/- 0.15 Volts)
Across the battery with the pump running...
2350 RPM 14.00 Volts
2875 RPM 14.25 Volts
3150 RPM 15.00 Volts
4075 RPM 16.38 Volts
Across the battery withOUT the pump running....
1350 RPM 15.50 Volts
1625 RPM 15.75 Volts
2450 RPM 16.25 Volts
3050 RPM 16.50 Volts
I assume if I add the 18watt light I want to use, The voltage drop would be even greater???
Around 3100 RPM gives 16.5 Volts with no pump, but 15.0 Volts with a 12 Watt draw on the battery. I assume an additional 18 Watts might put me around 12 Volts??? I also assume that the higher the RPMs are, the lower that voltage drop will be. ????
I have an idea, but don't have a clue. LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iJ_IpJu27A&feature=youtu.be
I checked the output with and without the diode.
Without the diode, I was getting around 30 VAC.
From an earlier post....
RMS AC Voltage = 30 Volts (measured)
http://www.bristolwatch.com/ele/basi...tification.htm
Peak Voltage = RMS Volts * 1.414 = 30 Volts * 1.414 = 42 Volts
Full Wave Rectified DC Voltage (measured) = Peak Voltage * 0.637 = 27 Volts
Half Wave Rectified DC Voltage (measured) = (Peak Voltage * 0.637) / 2 = (42V * 0.637) / 2 = 13.5 Volts.
If there is a diode in the key-box wiring (half wave rectifier), I expect to see 13.5 Volts based on the measured 30 Volts AC.
So I guess I would expect around 30+ RMS Volts AC measured at the stator's output at around 3600 RPM. A single diode (half wave rectification) will give ~13.5 Volts intheory. A full wave rectifier will give ~27 Volts if the input is 30VAC. Not sure why you are only getting 10VAC. Is there a load connected? I tested with one probe going to the block and the other probe on the end of the single wire coming from the stator. No load connected.
It seems like your 10 RMS Volts AC gives a peak voltage of 14.14 V. Half wave rectified would read 4.5 Volts.
---------- Post added at 01:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 AM ----------
I posted this in the next thread where I make performance mods to this engine.
My threads are like my thoughts. Scattered all over the place
Maybe you can tells me what this test shows me??? I don't really know how to use this information.
It shows RPMs and Voltage measured across the battery (with and without a 1 amp pump running). I up to this point have just taken China's word that this pump draws 1 amp. Have not tested.
(Approximately!!! +/15 RPM +/- 0.15 Volts)
Across the battery with the pump running...
2350 RPM 14.00 Volts
2875 RPM 14.25 Volts
3150 RPM 15.00 Volts
4075 RPM 16.38 Volts
Across the battery withOUT the pump running....
1350 RPM 15.50 Volts
1625 RPM 15.75 Volts
2450 RPM 16.25 Volts
3050 RPM 16.50 Volts
I assume if I add the 18watt light I want to use, The voltage drop would be even greater???
Around 3100 RPM gives 16.5 Volts with no pump, but 15.0 Volts with a 12 Watt draw on the battery. I assume an additional 18 Watts might put me around 12 Volts??? I also assume that the higher the RPMs are, the lower that voltage drop will be. ????
I have an idea, but don't have a clue. LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iJ_IpJu27A&feature=youtu.be