Predator Lighting Coil

[bob58o]

Clamp it, Jed.

I Usain Bolted it.
My little table thing needed some holes drilled in it anyway.
Engine stand is much more useful for me then "breakfast in bed table" or whatever it is. I put my laptop on it when internetting in my bed. Now I have holes for the power cable and HDMI cable.

 

[Randy H]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5kOprPknhP4&feature=youtu.be

 

[ezcome-ezgo]

I firmly believe in the destruction of used furniture to advance the cause.

 

[bob58o]

Let's make a prediction that we can test.
Let's Science.

RMS AC Voltage = 30 Volts (measured)

http://www.bristolwatch.com/ele/basic_ac_rectification.htm
Peak Voltage = RMS Volts * 1.414 = 30 Volts * 1.414 = 42 Volts
Full Wave Rectified DC Voltage (measured) = Peak Voltage * 0.637 = 27 Volts
Half Wave Rectified DC Voltage (measured) = (Peak Voltage * 0.637) / 2 = (42V * 0.637) / 2 = 13.5 Volts.

If there is a diode in the key-box wiring (half wave rectifier), I expect to see 13.5 Volts based on the measured 30 Volts AC.

Not sure what RPM I am at. But I’ll keep things same as yesterday.

 

[ezcome-ezgo]

Not sure what RPM I am at.

Ending sentences in prepositions tells me you're "at" a bad place.

 

[bob58o]

Ending sentences in prepositions tells me you're "at" a bad place.

That rule applies to Latin.
I start sentences with “But” and “And”. I finish with “At”.

---------- Post added at 03:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 PM ----------

Just tested it again. I plugged the stator’s wire into the key-box.
The output,- which goes to the starter motor and positive battery terminal - read 13.5 to 13.7V DC. Not 14.4V but I haven’t opened the throttle yet. I have turned the idle speed screw up, loosened the throttle lever but, but have been testing at idle (high idle, but maybe less than 3600 RPM).

It’s cool when measurements match theoretical values. I like Science.

I do believe that 13.7 V DC output means I have done things correctly. Once I get a battery and test the electric stater, this phase will be D-U-N done.

 

[bob58o]

If pro is the opposite of con, what is the opposite of progress?

 

[ezcome-ezgo]

That would be regress or regression. But I see what you did there. Nice try.

 

[bob58o]

Rato just added a new engine to their model palette..

a 225cc 7.5hp engine.. and it (unlike the 6.5hp 212cc) is available with e-start!
Chances are it shares all but the bore with the 212cc engine (I think it had the same stroke... soooo *shrugs*)

Maybe one day Horrorfright replaces it's 212 with the 225

'sid

Just looked up the Rato 225cc.
70mm bore same as 212cc.
But 58mm stroke.
212cc is 70mm bore x 55mm stroke.
196cc is 68mm x 54mm.
208cc is 70mm x 54mm.

http://www.ratoaustralia.com.au/products/horizontal-engine/r225d-detail

 

[Nosandwich]

CONGRESS!!!! Jeeze, Bob, you're a nerdo!!! ( look it up.)

 

[bob58o]

Dude ur my hero, after you get the kinks hammered out I would love to read a full write up on this.

Hemi Predator 60363 Electric Start Conversion with DC Charging
*Clifton Keith Hillegass Notes Version


Flywheel: Kohler 1702530S
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-OE.../291928444487?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c1

Flywheel Fan: Kohler 1715706S
https://www.ebay.com/itm/flywheel-f...170184?hash=item239127f488:g:YZoAAOSwl9RZ8Q6c

Stator: Kohler 1708509S
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-OE...sh=item41b6c62095:g:6voAAOSw44BYFrDr#shpCntId
(4) 6mm x 30mm bolts to mount the Stator Coils

Starter Motor: Honda GX160 GX200 with Solenoid
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Starter-Mo...&sd=111355866661&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1

Flywheel Key: Honda , Clone, Predator Flywheel Offset Timing Keys
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Clon...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

Key Switch Box: IGNITION-SWITCH-BOX -HONDA-GX160-GX200-5-5HP-6-5HP
https://www.ebay.com/itm/IGNITION-S...019406?hash=item2cccd4318e:g:5fAAAOSw4GVYHdxS

Fan Shroud: Recoil Shroud Honda GX160 & GX200 Pull Starter Cooling Fan Cover
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Red-Recoil...&sd=330525312884&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1


TOTAL COST FOR PARTS PLUS SHIPPING: $199.81
This was buying from eBay and shipped to me.
I got a bit of a deal and got a used flywheel, starter motor and key switch-box for $75.
So I still paid around $150 for the upgrade.
You don't need the blower housing. You can cut a hole in the predator one. I didn't try to test with the single clone coil. The Kohler flywheel has 3 magnets vs the Clone 2. Not sure if it matters, but I went with the stator designed for the flywheel.

Other places that carry some of these parts are...
JacksSmallEngines.com
eReplacementParts.com
EverestPartsSupplies.com

-Remove stock flywheel and key.

-Remove ignition coil.

-Lap new flywheel on using valve lapping compound.

-Remove new flywheel.

-Clean Flywheel and crankshaft.

-Clean Flywheel and crankshaft.

-Clean Flywheel and crankshaft.

-Install Stator coils using (4) 6mm x 30mm bolts.

-Install Starter motor using (2) bolts. I noted the same 6mm x 30 bolts, but these might actually be 5/16 -24 (not sure - sorry). Do this Before torquing on the flywheel.

-Clean Flywheel and crankshaft.

-Install offset timing key in keyway on crank.

-Place Flywheel on crank.

-Put the Kohler Fan on the Flywheel.

-Put the Predator Starter Cup on the Fan/Flywheel.

-Torque the Flywheel Nut.

-Install the Ignition Coil.

-Set the Air Gap.

-Install the Blower Housing.

-Install the Key Switch-Box. The lower bolt hole on the key box doesn't quite line up right with the part of the blower housing that covers the starter motor. I only have one bolt that holds the key box on. Same bolt used to hold the blower housing and ON/OFF ground.

This might be the fan shroud I should have gotten...
The one I got has no hole for the lower bolt of the switch-box (which won't line up right even if I put a hole in it).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/FAN-HOUSIN...AND-6-5-for-electric-start-type-/371269976865



Next post will show how I wired it. I kept the low oil sensor and stock ON/OFF switch for now.

 

[zogthegreat]

Excellent work man!

 

[Made]

So what happened with the regulator it's not on n ur parts list did u not use it?

 

[bob58o]

So what happened with the regulator it's not on n ur parts list did u not use it?

No, right now there doesn't seem to be any need for it - nor do I think the one I got would it do any good at these RPMs.

I wanted to stop at this point for those who are going to be operating with governor. No need for the voltage regulator - at least I don't think so.

After I break the engine in and adjust the governor, I'll test at higher RPMs. I'm only getting 13.7 Volts (granted the engine might only be spinning 2500-3000 RPMs) and the regulator needs a 2 volt "dropout" or something, then I could only regulate output for 11.7 Volts, which isn't going to charge the battery.

I'm pretty sure I CAN charge a battery with pulsating DC current which is what I think I have now. I don't think a capacitor is needed in this charging circuit - which if sized correctly would smooth out the DC voltage to make is look like a normal battery output - constant and steady.

If I'm getting much higher than 15V at 5000 RPM, then I'll come back to the voltage regulator.

 

[Denny]

Yes Bob you can charge a battery with pulsing dc voltage. It is in theory good for the battery to help break up sulfate corrosion in wet cell type batteries. Battery Tender use that type of technology.




Denny

 

[bob58o]

-Disconnect the Black wire from the Gold Box.
-Yellow wire from low oil sensor still plugs into yellow wire from Gold Box.
-Brown wire from Key-Box goes to Stator wire.
-White wire from Key-Box with ring terminal goes to starter motor's solenoid "post" terminal.
-Black/white wire from Key-Box with female terminal goes to red wire from Starter Solenoid with male terminal.
-Black wire from Key-box has a male and female terminal.
-Male terminal goes to the female terminal from the ignition coil / original ON-OFF switch wire.
-Female terminal plugs into the male terminal from the Gold Box black wire.

I relocated the Gold Box.
I left the original ON-OFF Switch just Hanging.

 

[KartFab]

okay, so does this mean that its okay to run this electric start kit without a regulator/rectifier? i couldnt see one in my keybox anywhere (different electric start kit, same type of stuff)

 

[Kartorbust]

I wonder if Doc would reply to a PM he might know.

 

[bob58o]

okay, so does this mean that its okay to run this electric start kit without a regulator/rectifier? i couldnt see one in my keybox anywhere (different electric start kit, same type of stuff)

Well If governed to around 4k or under, I think it will be fine.
30V AC through a half-wave rectifying diode should give you around 14V DC.

The rectifying diode seems to be inline on the Brown wire coming from the key box.
My wire is red, then I think the diode under heat shrink, then brown wire from there.
I THINK that is the inline rectifying diode.

I have been told it is OK to run this straight to the battery.
Also have been told that the battery acts as a voltage regulator, which I don't quite understand yet. I have come across this battery as a voltage regulator thing a few times. Still don't get it.

If the stator coil has two wires, then a full wave rectifier/regulator should work.

 

[Made]

Ive been looking into your charging mod with the 10 amp flywheel and kohlers 3pole system stuck on my mind due to the 10 amp charging requirements for deep cycle batteries. Ive found this rectifier during my many a google, altho im unable to find any specs on it yet aside from the amperage range i.e. output voltage (I certainly wouldnt wanna send 24v charging to my 12v battery) Marine Alternator Rectifier for Johnson Evinrude 6-10 Amp replaces 583408

https://www.amazon.com/Alternator-Rectifier-Johnson-Evinrude-replaces/dp/B004S6RK64

Was curious if you might spend a few minutes looking at this build, not trying to get u off topic just thought you may have some additional input from researching both ac and dc stator for your build.

Also without a dc stepdown or a rectifier wouldn't the dc pulse cause any lighting in the circuit to flicker or strobe? Just a thought... (I'm starting to tell the difference between my arse and that hole in the ground but when I squint too hard from thinking I still can't tell em apart lol) Also thank you for the write up, and on second thought I guess the battery would send dedicated voltage to the lighting but without consistent charging it might make em brighten and dim when throttling up and down right?