Karttekk
Well-known member
420 P means pitch I believe
Dingo Manco Fox 2x5 LXT Torque Converter replacement
- Thread starter USAMAC
- Start date
420 P means pitch I believe
Karttekk
Well-known member
madprofessor
"Loose Cannon Creations"
The choice of whether to get parts (it's not just sprockets) with their own built-in piece of keystock protruding inside, or to get parts with a keyway that requires sliding in your own piece of keystock (I buy 12" long sticks of cut-to-fit) is a personal preference. It should be based on how you want things to act when they're being assembled or disassembled. Once they're assembled and locked down it makes no difference whatsoever.
I prefer to be able to rotate parts around once slid on a shaft, like a sprocket being able to spin while fitting on a chain, so I just slide in a piece of keystock when done. I also like being able to slide in a long piece of keystock, let's say maybe 3", to fit multiple parts. Like 2 sprockets on a jackshaft, or a brake disc and a sprocket carrier on an axle.
Purely a matter of personal preference for assembly/disassembly. No matter once locked down.
I prefer to be able to rotate parts around once slid on a shaft, like a sprocket being able to spin while fitting on a chain, so I just slide in a piece of keystock when done. I also like being able to slide in a long piece of keystock, let's say maybe 3", to fit multiple parts. Like 2 sprockets on a jackshaft, or a brake disc and a sprocket carrier on an axle.
Purely a matter of personal preference for assembly/disassembly. No matter once locked down.
Karttekk
Well-known member
madprofessor, too bad you live in Florida and I in Pennsylvania or we could open a kart shop. We'd crush the competition. One thing I don't do is weld, I take my frames to a local guy to repair them.
USAMAC
Member
By this I just want to make sure that you meant, if its a 420 sprocket on the axle which would by default be a 40 or 41 a swell, but could not be a 35. Am I understanding that correctly? For some reason that little detail kept ringing in my head, so I had to ask so I know I understand, thank you!
Karttekk
Well-known member
Don't over-think it. Just put a 1/2" open end wrench over two teeth and if the ends of the teeth match the width of the wrench a #420 chain will work. As far as I know, there are two solid sprockets for these karts. One will use a #35 chain and the other a #420 (and others) chain. When you get into the buggy type machines they take a #50 chain but were not talking about those. Once you sort this all out and get to ride your kart, it will all make sense plus you'll feel pretty good about what you've learned and accomplished. We've all started somewhere and have gotten great help on this forum, ask as many questions as you need to.
Karttekk
Well-known member
Here are some Manco sprockets to give you some information about them.
www.gopowersports.com
Go-Kart - Go Kart Parts - Sprockets - Manco Sprockets - GoPowerSports.com
www.gopowersports.com
madprofessor
"Loose Cannon Creations"
The number 3 in #35 chain represents 3/8" long chain links, that is, every roller in the chain makes the chain 3/8" longer.
The number 4 in #40, #41, and #420 chain represents 4/8" long chain links, that is, every roller in the chain makes the chain 4/8" longer.
That of course simplifies from 4/8" to 1/2", think we learned that about the "lowest common denominator" in the 5th grade, so of course we call all 4/8" chain by the simpler 1/2" identifier.
So you are correct, no chain whose number begins with a 4 could ever be a #35 chain. Likewise no chain whose number does not begin with a 4 could ever be a #40, #41, or #420 chain.
The number 4 in #40, #41, and #420 chain represents 4/8" long chain links, that is, every roller in the chain makes the chain 4/8" longer.
That of course simplifies from 4/8" to 1/2", think we learned that about the "lowest common denominator" in the 5th grade, so of course we call all 4/8" chain by the simpler 1/2" identifier.
So you are correct, no chain whose number begins with a 4 could ever be a #35 chain. Likewise no chain whose number does not begin with a 4 could ever be a #40, #41, or #420 chain.
USAMAC
Member
OK great, I am actually following you both then! When I get home, I will confirm I have a #4 of sometime with a 1/2" tooth spacing.
I have been sourcing proper lubes, it appears that Comet Spray Lube has become nearly impossible to find. Did they discontinue this? Is there a close alternative?
What would you guys recommend for cleaning up the grime and grease around my frame? Good old soap and water? Seems like there is likely something more ideal.
I need to get a chain breaker. Would anyone have a recommendation or would suggest of one of these over the other? Big difference in price so.
GoKartSupply
Or this one from GPS?
I have been sourcing proper lubes, it appears that Comet Spray Lube has become nearly impossible to find. Did they discontinue this? Is there a close alternative?
What would you guys recommend for cleaning up the grime and grease around my frame? Good old soap and water? Seems like there is likely something more ideal.
I need to get a chain breaker. Would anyone have a recommendation or would suggest of one of these over the other? Big difference in price so.
GoKartSupply
Or this one from GPS?
Karttekk
Well-known member
They're like Coke or Pepsi, Ford or Chevy. Both fine. You'll need a 5/16-24 bolt to fasten the drive clutch to the engine crankshaft. The manual says it's 2-1/4" long but I would pick up a few different lengths so you won't have to run to the hardware store several times. Get a washer with the bolt that covers the opening in the clutch too. I use Purple Power heavy duty cleaner to wash these karts down then rinse with a hose. Dawn Platinum dish soap works too. NAPA sells chain lube, I have their brand but I guess any good quality brand will do.
Attachments
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crankshaft bolt.jpg
madprofessor
"Loose Cannon Creations"
Never use basic petroleum lubes (WD-40, 3n1 oil, etc.) on a torque converter. Dry graphite spray is acceptable for awhile, but Gokart Supply recommends using only the best, which is dry moly (molybdenum) lube. It literally bonds with metal. Here's some common CRC dry moly............
CRC 3084 Dry Moly Lube, (Net Weight: 11 oz.) 16 oz Aerosol Can, Dark Gray: Power Tool Lubricants: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
Please do not get yourself one of these chain breakers, it's the one I have and hate. You must be able to support the back side of the chain as the tool's pin pushes the roller pin out, or the side plate just bends away and you have to fight with some Channelocks and a screwdriver to get things apart. Then you've got side plates that aren't flat anymore, and end up with a link that doesn't want to swivel................
Chain Breaker Tool #25 thru #60 | AZ4097 | BMI Karts And Parts.............thought P.O.S. was retail speak for Point Of Sale? Guess again. Next time I use one will be after I have the one from GPS you posted above for $8.95 in my hand.
Planning to wash your kart, huh? Anything that won't dissolve it or the upholstery will be fine. Just relube your chain when done. Speaking of which, I do the 2 birds/1 stone thing. I use this stuff because it doesn't sling off, and works great on throttle and brake cables.
Amazon.com: Liquid Wrench L711 Chain & Cable Lube - 11 oz. : Automotive
CRC 3084 Dry Moly Lube, (Net Weight: 11 oz.) 16 oz Aerosol Can, Dark Gray: Power Tool Lubricants: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
Please do not get yourself one of these chain breakers, it's the one I have and hate. You must be able to support the back side of the chain as the tool's pin pushes the roller pin out, or the side plate just bends away and you have to fight with some Channelocks and a screwdriver to get things apart. Then you've got side plates that aren't flat anymore, and end up with a link that doesn't want to swivel................
Chain Breaker Tool #25 thru #60 | AZ4097 | BMI Karts And Parts.............thought P.O.S. was retail speak for Point Of Sale? Guess again. Next time I use one will be after I have the one from GPS you posted above for $8.95 in my hand.
Planning to wash your kart, huh? Anything that won't dissolve it or the upholstery will be fine. Just relube your chain when done. Speaking of which, I do the 2 birds/1 stone thing. I use this stuff because it doesn't sling off, and works great on throttle and brake cables.
Amazon.com: Liquid Wrench L711 Chain & Cable Lube - 11 oz. : Automotive
USAMAC
Member
I think the bolts and washers I took off are still in pretty good shape, but if it comes down to it, you're reference will be great incase I do have to get new bolts. Thank you!
The previous reference to the Converter chart at GoKartSupply was very informative and almost word for word of what you have said here and very sound advice! I was really looking for some elaboration like you gave because their recommendation seemed to run dry. I have just ordered a can of CRC's Dry Moly and Lube, but earlier I did also order a can of Dry Graphite lube and a can of Maxima 74920 Chain Wax all from Amazon. Hopefully, those will get me started with some of these things. I'll keep the Liquid Wrench in mind for later on if needed.
On the chain topic, could you clarify what you were trying to convey? I got a little confused if you were saying the one in your link is a POS or if the 2 I referenced were or if all of them were? With your experience and within reason, is there a chain breaker you would recommend above all? I am definitely going to need one, the 3ft chain I ordered will be too long, so I will have to remove a few links.
Denny
Canned Monster
Grind or file the end of the pin flat carefully. Get a small drift or nail and just tap the pin out. That’s what I do.
madprofessor
"Loose Cannon Creations"
That one I linked from BMI Karts is the one I have and hate. Really didn't know what it took to have a properly working breaker until using that thing, what a Piece Of S___ (POS). Here's the link again, PLEASE DO NOT BUY! Chain Breaker Tool #25 thru #60 | AZ4097 | BMI Karts And Parts
In the video with the picture you posted of the 2 chain breakers, you can see a good example of what I mean by needed to support the back side of the chain. That style has a jaw above holding the pin that screws down, but it also has a jaw below to support that side of the chain. It keeps the outside plate from going anywhere, that is, from bending down. Instead the roller pin just pushes right on through the lower jaw.
On my POS breaker (just linked above) the chain is grabbed on the sides around the roller you want to push the pin out of. The pin starts to move, then instead of slipping on through both plates, the bottom plate literally bends and spreads apart. The pin is then stuck, and you have to grab the bent plate with Channellocks in one hand and try to pry things apart with a wide flatblade screwdriver in the other hand.
In the video with the picture you posted of the 2 chain breakers, you can see a good example of what I mean by needed to support the back side of the chain. That style has a jaw above holding the pin that screws down, but it also has a jaw below to support that side of the chain. It keeps the outside plate from going anywhere, that is, from bending down. Instead the roller pin just pushes right on through the lower jaw.
On my POS breaker (just linked above) the chain is grabbed on the sides around the roller you want to push the pin out of. The pin starts to move, then instead of slipping on through both plates, the bottom plate literally bends and spreads apart. The pin is then stuck, and you have to grab the bent plate with Channellocks in one hand and try to pry things apart with a wide flatblade screwdriver in the other hand.
USAMAC
Member
Ok, I ended up ordering the blue one from GKS, so hopefully it will prove to do the trick. Thanks for the heads up about the one from BMI, I considered it before but haven't seen anyone using it so moved away from it.
madprofessor
"Loose Cannon Creations"
Unbelieveable! You got me thinking when you said you haven't seen anyone using that breaker, so I searched it on YouTube. First thing that popped up showed exactly what I said about the bottom plate bending out of the way. It's obviously some kid trying to figure it out for the first time right out of the package, but nonetheless..............
How To Use A Chain Breaker - YouTube
Then it was followed by a pro doing it, and he says it exactly, how sometimes he still has to use needlenose and a screwdriver to pry it with............
How Break or Cut Motorized Bicycle Chain Using a Chain Breaker Tool - YouTube
All of it hilariously bad advertising for that POS chain breaker. Somehow I feel a bit vindicated.
How To Use A Chain Breaker - YouTube
Then it was followed by a pro doing it, and he says it exactly, how sometimes he still has to use needlenose and a screwdriver to pry it with............
How Break or Cut Motorized Bicycle Chain Using a Chain Breaker Tool - YouTube
All of it hilariously bad advertising for that POS chain breaker. Somehow I feel a bit vindicated.
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Karttekk
Well-known member
This guy makes it look easy.
madprofessor
"Loose Cannon Creations"
I'm going to get the general type of breaker in the video above, but unsure about size ratings and replacement parts..............
This particular one............Heavy Duty Chain Breaker | 600107 | BMI Karts And Parts..........for $8.95 says it only fits chain sizes from #420 on up to #530, and it specifies its extractor pin as being 1/8" diameter. This chain spec chart...........Chain for Go Kart, Mini Bike | GoKarts USA®............specs #35 and #41 as having 1/8" roller pins which that breaker isn't sized for. #420 has slightly larger 5/32" roller pins as do the larger sizes beyond it that the breaker's rated for with its 1/8" extractor pin. Clearly they don't think a 1/8" extractor pin should be pushing through a 1/8" roller pin, guess it's just too tight.
But then there's this way more expensive $35.95 breaker.............Deluxe Chain Breaker Tool | AZ4899 | BMI Karts And Parts............that says it fits from #35 (1/8" roller pins) to #60, but doesn't disclose its extractor pin diameter. I want to know if it's saying an undersized extractor pin is okay, and therefore it's best to buy the universal fit chain breaker, 'one size fits all'.
EDIT: MFG Supply chain breaker...AZ4899 - Deluxe Chain Breaker | Go Kart & Mini Bike Parts | MFG Supply...........for $34.99 has replacement pins ($1.29) for its universal size..............Replacement Pin for AZ4899 Deluxe Chain Breaker | Go Kart & Mini Bike Parts | MFG Supply...............which was my main concern, that's the part that can be damaged. So MFG Supply it is, one size fits all, buying it just once for life, and some spare pins too.
This particular one............Heavy Duty Chain Breaker | 600107 | BMI Karts And Parts..........for $8.95 says it only fits chain sizes from #420 on up to #530, and it specifies its extractor pin as being 1/8" diameter. This chain spec chart...........Chain for Go Kart, Mini Bike | GoKarts USA®............specs #35 and #41 as having 1/8" roller pins which that breaker isn't sized for. #420 has slightly larger 5/32" roller pins as do the larger sizes beyond it that the breaker's rated for with its 1/8" extractor pin. Clearly they don't think a 1/8" extractor pin should be pushing through a 1/8" roller pin, guess it's just too tight.
But then there's this way more expensive $35.95 breaker.............Deluxe Chain Breaker Tool | AZ4899 | BMI Karts And Parts............that says it fits from #35 (1/8" roller pins) to #60, but doesn't disclose its extractor pin diameter. I want to know if it's saying an undersized extractor pin is okay, and therefore it's best to buy the universal fit chain breaker, 'one size fits all'.
EDIT: MFG Supply chain breaker...AZ4899 - Deluxe Chain Breaker | Go Kart & Mini Bike Parts | MFG Supply...........for $34.99 has replacement pins ($1.29) for its universal size..............Replacement Pin for AZ4899 Deluxe Chain Breaker | Go Kart & Mini Bike Parts | MFG Supply...............which was my main concern, that's the part that can be damaged. So MFG Supply it is, one size fits all, buying it just once for life, and some spare pins too.
Karttekk
Well-known member
USAMSC, In order to use the 5959 belt that's suggested, you'll need to make sure the distance between the drive pulley and driven is 7" or less. Put the jackshaft on the engine plate then set the engine on the jackshaft. Measure for the correct distance. The stock jackshaft sits about an inch high from the engine mount plate. If it's close, slide the jackshaft sprocket on the jackshaft, grab your chain and fit it correctly by wrapping it around the axle sprocket and the jackshaft sprocket. I do what someone else suggested earlier to break the chain. I figure out how many links I need to remove or add then use my battery powered grinder to knock off the top of one or two pins then drive them out with a punch smaller than the pin hole. This method eliminates bending a side plate on the chain, just make sure you don't grind the side plate too thin on the chain. I would double check to make sure your axle sprocket isn't a #35 by grabbing a 3/8" open end wrench, placing the ends over the tops of the sprocket teeth and checking if they match. If you have a #35 sprocket you'll need to get a #35 jackshaft drive sprocket and chain. Use an impact wrench to tighten the nuts on both pulleys once everything is setup properly and always lift the rear of the kart off the ground before you start it. Be ready to shut the engine off in the event things get ugly.
www.gokartguide.com
The Ultimate Go-Kart Belt Size Chart | GoKartGuide
Welcome to the ultimate go-kart belt size chart, also known as a go-kart drive belt size chart. This chart features all Comet torque converter belt sizes that
www.gokartguide.com
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Comet_belt_fit.jpg
USAMAC
Member
Here is the one I ended up getting.. it appears to be the same thing and has a broad purpose as well, but doesn't work with 60 chains.. I also don't see replacement pins available from GKS.. Hopefully, it works out to be good enough.
Before I tore everything down and had ordered my first kit, I actually measured per a video I saw from Red Beard Garage YT channel, at least I think it was him. Anyhow, I know the space was between the two shafts from each's center, less than 7" and I believe it was 6 5/8, but I am not 100% now, as that's been about 2 weeks. I am still waiting on the new plate to come in, so I am unable to do that now, but if I have to order another belt, that's not a huge deal, as that part is pretty inexpensive.. Maybe GKS will let me exchange it!
I have measured just about everything with a 1/2 Wrench confirming I have a 420 and will be setting up with exactly that for everything going forward. Here is exactly what I ordered from GKS and is most of my parts ordering, tools and lubes and the new plate were all purchased elsewhere.
GKS
I see quite a bit of refencing to, go OEM and stock etc quite often in different threads. I am still going through a lot but do any of you guys that have been responding here and advising, get it into upgrading what you have with performance oriented parts? I have to say, it excites me to make any motor better, even if that means replacing torque converters, sprockets and belts & chains. Swapping a motor out just for a higher HP obviously makes sense because it's coming with more torque by stock as well, but they are also alot more expensive. Adding ~4HP to a motor for roughly $150 from GPS, when I already have a very capable 6.5hp 212cc from Predator that's in great shape!
I will definitely be making a new thread soon to get more specific with my build to max it out, but I'd love to hear some thoughts from my comment there if you guys are interested!
Thanks again to everyone for the help and guidance here, I have already learned so much and I am so looking forward to my stuff getting here so I can get dirty and get it back up and running with some new parts!
EDIT: I meant to say, I now cannot help but to look at my John Deere Series 100 with a 20hp LA100 and my Toro push mower both so very differently. I'm often wondering, what else can I squeeze out of you two?!