Dingo Manco Fox 2x5 LXT Torque Converter replacement

[USAMAC]

Hello all,

I have a Dingo Manco Fox 2x5 LXT that I bought off of someone from FB Market about 2 years ago. At the time, I was in full blown house building mode, so when we began having issues (almost right away) I procrastinated. Our issues began when the not in terrible condition drive belt broke off. I had planned to order one forever but let it slide until my son asked me again about it recently so I got motivated. I ordered what I thought would fit, based on the necessary measurements and swapped it out. This did the trick, but after taking it out to ride for a couple hours I found that the clutch pulley was producing so much heat it melted the zip tape I used to mend the converter cover. The kart kept stalling out about every 5 minutes. I also found that this kart keeps trying to go with the foot off the break and I cannot hold it back. I can't seem to find anywhere if that is normal because of the torque converter or if it should stay still in idle?

With the problems I was having, I decided to order a new kit from amazon. The guy I bought this from had replaced the motor it came with originally, with a Predator 212cc 6.5hp Gas. The Drive shaft for the converter pulley that he put on there was exceptionally long, it actually went as far as the motor is wide. He had fabricated a mount out of steel that he put a small steel tube on to hold this long shaft with appropriate bearings etc.

I pulled the old converter kit off, disconnected the chain and throttle cable and pulled the motor out to change the oil and to turn the crank to make it easier on my kids and remove the operation of the oil sensor. Eventually, I want to remove the oil sensor, governor and do a stage one, but I don't want to bother until I can get the kart running properly with this new converter kit. I ended up using a grinder to remove the pipe the previous owner had added to the mounting bracket he fabricated for the old converter shaft.

I have some pics to attach with where I am at now, but I'm kicking myself for not taking any before picks of how it was assembled. The issue I am having, is I believe that the drive sprocket is way too high and too close to the motor, or the motor is too close to it, I am unsure and this is definitely where my inexperience is hindering me. I keep watching videos and looking at pics online, but I can't quite get enough detail to determine where the problem lies in this kart's setup.

Should I move the main sprocket or should I move the motor? I am also thinking I need to elevate the motor even more than he did with the bracket he fabricated. I'll have to use wood or hire it out, because I do not own or have much experience with welding. Is there something I am missing? Let me know if more pics are needed, I will get them when I get home.

I was able to source 2 different #'s for this kart, but I don't know which is mine or if relevant to the discussion here. Maybe one is a 1 seater and the other is 2 seater? Or possibly the years they were made?

485B-19 FOX 2X5 LXT
485B-09 FOX 2X5 LXT

 

[Karttekk]

There should be a drive clutch on the engine, a driven clutch on the jackshaft (which I don't see) and a belt between the two. There should also be a 9 tooth sprocket on the jackshaft that aligns with the drive sprocket on the axle with a chain on both sprockets. If you don't have a jackshaft, you'll need one of these: https://www.bmikarts.com/Clutch-Mount-with-Jackshaft_p_1129.html. In order to use a #5959 belt, the jackshaft should sit about an inch high on the engine mount plate.

Refer to these pictures to further understand what you'll need.

 

[Karttekk]

There's an exploded view of what should be similar to your setup in this manual.

https://assets.americanlandmaster.com/uploads/manuals/Fun-Kart/485486_operatorsmanual_485b0486b0.pdf

 

[Karttekk]

The engine mount plate looks to be curved upward or bowed. Maybe remove the engine then flatten the engine mount plate as close to factory as you can.

 

[Karttekk]

This looks odd to me.

 

[USAMAC]

There should be a drive clutch on the engine, a driven clutch on the jackshaft (which I don't see) and a belt between the two. There should also be a 9 tooth sprocket on the jackshaft that aligns with the drive sprocket on the axle with a chain on both sprockets. If you don't have a jackshaft, you'll need one of these: https://www.bmikarts.com/Clutch-Mount-with-Jackshaft_p_1129.html. In order to use a #5959 belt, the jackshaft should sit about an inch high on the engine mount plate.

Refer to these pictures to further understand what you'll need.

Wow, your cart looks great and gives me a lot to aspire too! I now see that I messed up in removing the jack pipe on the bracket he made or that must of come with it. I thought this was messing me up from using the type of kit I bought, but apparently I just needed to use what was there. I will have to purchase that plate you referenced. Should I add it to mine or replace mine with it. The one in the link is flat, so I am thinking I will need to grind off that back wing and then mount the one you referenced on top of it?

 

[USAMAC]

The engine mount plate looks to be curved upward or bowed. Maybe remove the engine then flatten the engine mount plate as close to factory as you can.

That vertical part is where it was welded to that I grinded off last night. When I get home, I'll take more pics of that part of this

 

[USAMAC]

This looks odd to me.

I see now what you mean. That is a plastic splash guard. I might just remove mine from all of it like you did. Looks better I think!

 

[madprofessor]

Let's get the same terminology working here so it's understood what you're saying. Don't know what you're calling the "main sprocket", the "drive sprocket', "too high and too close", "drive shaft for converter pulley", etc.. Let's start with your "converter".........
The separate "drive shaft" (that's the jackshaft, an interim shaft that carries your driven pulley and jackshaft secondary sprocket between the motor shaft and the rear axle), with its driven pulley and secondary sprocket mounted on it, and the driver pulley (clutch) and belt constituted a complete "torque converter" or "TC", aka "CVT" or "Constant Variable Transmission". What you have now that wasn't there before is a backplate that it all mounts on, eliminating the separate jackshaft. The jackshaft now is built into the backplate. What series do you have now?.............
You could have had a 40 series (8-16 hp.) with a symmeterical 7/8" wide belt, or a 30 series (up to 8 hp.) with an asymmetrical 3/4" wide belt. You must find out what you have now, asymmetrical belts must have asymmetrical pulleys, and symmetrical needs symmetrical. Further, asymmetrical belts must have their flat side toward the engine, angled side away from engine. We do know you have a 1/2" chain, could be #40, #41, or #420. The small sprocket on the TC jackshaft and the axle sprocket must be of the same 1/2" size for your chain. 30 series TC's usually come with both a 1/2" sprocket and also a 3/8" sprocket for #35 chain.
Here's a link that shows you what # chains and sprockets can work together..........Chain for Go Kart, Mini Bike | GoKarts USA®
Here's a link that shows you what TC belts and pulleys go together, and explains how they work, and how to measure for belts. I strongly urge you to read all the explanation at the beginning, and to then scroll to the bottom of the page and read the whole explanation down there, you'll be very glad you did...........Comet Drive Belts | Comet Torque Converter Belts | Go Kart Belts (gokartsupply.com)
Get back to us with some answers, and we'll be able to give you some answers. Best of luck.

 

[Karttekk]

The kart ships with a flat piece of steel with holes to mount an engine. If the kart shipped with a centrifugal clutch, there's just the flat plate. If it shipped with a torque converter there should be a jackshaft plate as illustrated in the American Landmaster manual provided. It looks as though removing the engine, flattening the plate it sits on then adding a jackshaft should get you in the ballpark.

 

[Karttekk]

With a little luck and some patience these should get you started since it looks like you're using a Predator 212 engine. You can use a 6" or 7" driven clutch, 6' is pretty much standard.

 

[Karttekk]

Use the Amazon kit as a paperweight. Set it up as it was designed from the factory as in the provided manual and images.

 

[Karttekk]

madprofessor makes a good point as far as your chain. The chain number should be stamped on the side of one of the links. If you don't see anything, watch this video on how to measure the chain so you get the correct jackshaft sprocket. Measure the chain and the axle sprocket to ensure everything matches up.

 

[Denny]

It seems your original problem was just using a generic belt which could have been corrected by switching to a Genuine Comet belt.

 

[karl]

The issue I am having, is I believe that the drive sprocket is way too high and too close to the motor, or the motor is too close to it, I am unsure and this is definitely where my inexperience is hindering me.

Giving all the backstory and complaints is great, but sometimes too much info just confuses and turns off individuals that can help.

To help you better we need specific details on your unit.

To determine if your gear ratio is adequate, we need to know your tire size, drive sprocket, and driven sprocket.
Also what terrain is this vehicle operated on, and who/ how is it driven. Without that everyone is guessing.
The details matter.

Height does not matter , only if the sprockets are in line. A shorter chain may live a shorter life, but will not cause immediate issues.

It seems your original problem was just using a generic belt which could have been corrected by switching to a Genuine Comet belt.

I hope that's all it is, but without any real details, it's guessing.

 

[madprofessor]

USAMAC, forgot to attach a couple of pics for you. As you're wondering how your sprockets and pulleys and chain and blah blah should be mounted, look at your new backplate laying there in kart 2.jpg photo above. That can be mounted up flush to the engine case a number of different ways, any point of the compass really, as long as nothing else's in the way. Back, forward, up, down, any way.
Attaching a gokart pic where the backplate is hanging straight down from the engine. Another where it extends backward a little below horizontally on a minibike. In the end you'll have it mounted somewhere with your chain going around the little sprocket on the backside of your driven pulley and around your axle sprocket.
Makes no difference which direction you decide to mount it, or how close to or far away from the axle sprocket. I'll attach another pic of the gokart showing it's a long stretch down with the primary chain to the jackshaft, and a really long stretch from there to the axle sprocket with the secondary chain. Just doesn't matter, not at all. Experiment around the compass.

 

[USAMAC]

There is so much information coming at me from everyone here I must say I keep finding myself overwhelmed. Sorry I was off on my terminology, but at the time I was just trying to get the info out there and begin some dialogue. The links and pics have been immeasurably helpful, as well as the request for more detailed info. Being at work, I cannot get all of the info requested but I believe I have some direction on how to get more of what's needed, hopefully the info I put here will at least get some things started.

I will return the Amazon kit and have already ordered the Clutch Mount with Jackshaft from BMI. I am going to buy the Driver Clutch, Driven unit and belt from GoKartSupply. Here are what I have planned, I believe they all complement each other.


I'd also like to replace the chain while I am at it. From the video, I now know how to determine some difference and potentially how to measure what I need, but I don't understand the difference between the #40, 41 and 420, are those the height differences that MadProfessor was referring to? I will get a new Masterlink as well, that matches the one I end up with, I am just unsure of that last detail on chains.

Does it make more sense to get a sprocket with the key built in or w/keyway? Pretty sure the sprocket I took off had it built in, but I am replacing all of that with new, so want to order the right one.


Here are more pics. I am sure I have overlooked someone's comments or inquiries in attempt to keep this response from getting too long, as my initial post was. Feel free to request again and I will continue trying to gather the other requested information I've left out here.

 

[Karttekk]

I see you're getting crushed with help, maybe not a bad thing but overwhelming. Anyway, get the sprocket with the built in key since the jackshaft plate is slotted. Get the #420 chain as long as sprocket on the axle is a 420 chain sprocket. I sent you a video on how to check it. Nothing to do with height, it's how robust the chain is. Look for 420 stamped on the side of one of the links. Looks like that kart shipped with a 64 link, #420 chain. If you can see 420 stamped on your chain you might be able to reuse it. Count the links. Once you get it setup, measure the distance between the center of the engine crankshaft and the center of the jackshaft to determine the correct belt. The 5959 should work. Holler if you need more help.

 

[madprofessor]

The differences in the (3) 1/2" link chain #40, #41, #420 are very small. They're all 1/2" long and have 5/16" roller diameter.
The only difference that matters to me personally is that the #40 chain is 1/16" wider (side to side) than the other 2 chains. That means that #40 chain can ride on not only #40 sprockets of course, but also on the other 2 size sprockets just fine. The little 1/16" extra slop is perfectly fine and doesn't matter to anyone I'm aware of.
However, a #40 sprocket being a little fatter of tooth by 1/16" means it's an overly close fit (in my own opinion) into the links of the other 2 size chains than I'm comfortable with. It's an OCD thing for me, might not matter at all. Hey other folks!, please chime in with an opinion on whether or not #40 sprockets are wrong for #41 and/or #420 chain.
Note: The #41 chain's internal pins have 1/32" smaller diameter than the the other 2 sizes, but since they never come into contact with anything they don't matter in any way.

 

[Karttekk]

This video explains how to measure for the correct belt.