Diamonite Electrathon America Racer

[Denny]

Build a light frame with your suspension mounting points and cage. Then glass it all in to stiffen it up. That’s the way I would approach it. A build but in reverse.

 

[Functional Artist]

Build a light frame with your suspension mounting points and cage. Then glass it all in to stiffen it up. That’s the way I would approach it. A build but in reverse.

Hey Denny,

I was kinda thinkin' about maybe tryin' something like that
Still researchin' & thinkin'

"Bestow upon me knowledge" (5 Magics - Megadeth)

All of this is so kool, because there are so many options available
...fiberglass body over a metal frame
...fiberglass body on a metal frame
...a re-enforced semi-monocoque
...full monocoque

Then, there are so many possible overall body shapes (tubular to fishlike or even kinda car like)
...& even different "nose" configurations (from a simple cone to lookin' like a '57 Chevy)

Since this will be my first time working with a few different materials & concepts, I am still bouncing around different ideas

Currently think' about incorporating a racing style go kart frame, into a fiberglass body
...kinda like a metal skeleton, to mount the seat, steering & wheels to

Keep in mind, I got's all winter, before I can realistically "lay" any fiberglass
...but, I can do lots more/additional research
...& can even "play" around with some wood &/or foam "mock ups" or "plugs", til then

 

[Functional Artist]

I'ma thinkin' that once the seating position has been "roughly" established

Next, up is figurin' where ta put the steering wheel & shaft
...& don't forget the pedals

Another view

 

[Functional Artist]

For figurin' on where to put the wheels

First, ya gotta figure out the "ride height" (how high you want the bottom of the kart, off of the ground)

* In this pic, I'm using a 2 x 4 (on edge) to establish a ~3 1/2" ride height

Then, figure the "wheel track" (how wide the front tires are apart)

* Wider is usually better (for anti-rollover)
...but, too far away from the chassis is not good (weaker &/or more prone to failure)

** This pic shows from the center of the chassis to the outer edge of the tire is ~20"
...so, in this example, the "wheel track" would be ~40"

Also, been bouncing around a few different ideas for mounting the front wheels

A.) Light weight/duty A-frame's

With a small coil-over shock

B,) Solid drop axle

Mounted to the bottom of the "tub"

 

[Functional Artist]

Next, we throw in a couple of Tie Rods
...(4) Tie Rod ends
...& a Pitman Arm

Then, we takes some pics
Side view

Um...the tie rod needs ta "go thru" the body
...probably about...here?
...or here?
...OK here

Don't forget we gonna need a place ta mount the bearing, that the lower steering shaft "rides" in/on

Top view

 

[Master Hack]

I made up a couplea parts for the hubs and "welded" them together. Making the parts was easy. My Aluminum TIG "skills" are pathetic.
Bad enough that it went straight to the recycle bin. Embarassing! If ya want to make these, aluminum is a good choice. I'll make the parts but you'll need to find a welder.

 

[Functional Artist]

I made up a couplea parts for the hubs and "welded" them together. Making the parts was easy. My Aluminum TIG "skills" are pathetic.
Bad enough that it went straight to the recycle bin. Embarassing! If ya want to make these, aluminum is a good choice. I'll make the parts but you'll need to find a welder.

Hey T,

Well...not every date ends, with a "happy ending"
...but, as long as ya enjoyed the "journey"

I agree Aluminium would be great
...but, I'ma thinkin' steel should be fine for these mini-hubs
...& since these hubs won't be supporting the entire weight of the racer, maybe we can try something a bit thinner (than 3/16") for the flanges
...& also, maybe something like ~1/8" thick wall(ed) tube

 

[Master Hack]

..but, as long as ya enjoyed the "journey"

Nothing but fun, nothing better than using machines, and fire to sculpt metal. Some day I may get the sculpting thing down! for now its just hack and burn!

agree Aluminium would be great

I have a welder friend who can do it, It may cost a few beers and a couple a bux. I'll talk to him.

, maybe something like ~1/8" thick wall(ed) tube

The problem is the bearings. First the bearing OD and the tube ID. Good luck finding tube that fits the bearing and still have a little for the pocket.
If you find the right combination great! I'll make it work.
We're only talking an inch of tubing....

 

[ezcome-ezgo]

This thing will float, I just know it will. I believe.

 

[Master Hack]

Amphibious! Lets take this thing to the next level!

So we had meeting with heads of several departments,including Engineering, QA, Skunkworks, prouction, regarding your new hub design. Sadly the design has been rejected. A few different reasons were noted. The main reason being excessive thrust loading of the bearings due to overhung load.

I'll give it to you in english, with this sketch. 99502 bearings have a width of .433inch.
(11mm)


The width of the hub from outside to outside being only 1 inch and the tire width being
3-4 x that and 5-6 inches from axle center line. The leverage effect creates excessive loading in the axial direction, The potential for wheel wobble is high.
the solution is to add more distance between the bearings to increase the ridgidity of the assembly.

 

[Functional Artist]

Amphibious! Lets take this thing to the next level!

So we had meeting with heads of several departments,including Engineering, QA, Skunkworks, prouction, regarding your new hub design. Sadly the design has been rejected. A few different reasons were noted. The main reason being excessive thrust loading of the bearings due to overhung load.

I'll give it to you in english, with this sketch. 99502 bearings have a width of .433inch.
(11mm)

View attachment 150863
The width of the hub from outside to outside being only 1 inch and the tire width being
3-4 x that and 5-6 inches from axle center line. The leverage effect creates excessive loading in the axial direction, The potential for wheel wobble is high.
the solution is to add more distance between the bearings to increase the ridgidity of the assembly.

Hey T,

The black rims have their own set of bearings, that will support the weight of the racer
...& also, "deal with" most of the static & dynamic loading

The mini-hub will only support the rotor
...& should only "come in to play" during braking

That's why I mentioned (in the video)...the possibility of...maybe...adding a (3rd) bearing, under the rotor
...& this is (hopefully) where the engineering dept can "chime in" on the necessity, of that 3rd bearing.

* Info about 3rd bearing at ~5:20 in this video

 

[Master Hack]

Obviously, l have no idea watcha up to. Just too effen dense.

 

[Functional Artist]

Hey T,

Maybe my terminology (calling it a "hub") was kinda mis-leading

I guess the "mini-hub" is more of just a fancy mount/adapter
...ta be able ta mount a brake rotor, to this wheel

 

[Master Hack]

OK I get it now. I picher is werth a buncha werds!

 

[Functional Artist]

Build a light frame with your suspension mounting points and cage. Then glass it all in to stiffen it up. That’s the way I would approach it. A build but in reverse.

Hey Denny,

Whatcha think about mounting a pre-built metal roll bar/cage into a fiberglass "structure" kinda like this?
(see crude drawing below)

Notice how the bottom of each "leg" could/would be secured in (2) different places
...& on (2) different "planes"

Plus, adding a "mid-way-bar" (to the roll bar, behind the driver) could/would help provide some "side to side" collapsing support
...in an otherwise mostly "hollow" structure
...& also, add (2) more attachment points, to help secure the roll bar/cage, in the monocoque, even better

 

[Functional Artist]

To "take 'er a step further"
...here is another drawing
...w/some preliminary dimensions

Also, notice on the bottom of the structure (in the drawing)
I'm thinking of installing a couple of "wear strips" (probably 1/4" thick x 2" wide Aluminum) along the bottom of the monocoque
...from the front to the back

These wear strips would
...help strengthen the entire structure
...be "replaceable" if ever necessary
...& the mounting bolts for the base of the roll bar (maybe seat & pedal assembly too) could "go thru" these "wear strips

Any comments on "sandwiching" the fiberglass in between (2) metal pieces like this?

 

[Denny]

I think it would break away from the glass in an automotive application. But! Seeing how this is a low speed, light weight application I still don’t think it will keep the chassis rigid enough. I’m still with build a skeleton chassis first and glass it. But it’s not my choice.

 

[Functional Artist]

Hey Denny,

I appreciate the reply/advise (as always)
...but, it seems like we are thinking about building this chassis using completely different (opposite) building methods

I believe you're thinking about building a chassis out of steel tubes
...& re-enforcing it with fiberglass
...probably ~70% steel & 30% fiberglass

Whereas I'm thinking about building a chassis out of fiberglass
...& re-enforcing it with steel tubes
...maybe ~70% fiberglass & 30% steel

I'm thinking of the wooden structure as kinda like a screwed together mold (kinda like that collapsable box magicians' use)
...that I can lay some fiberglass into
...& then, simply remove the screws, to de-mold the piece (instead of prying it out)

The "piece" created by this "mold" would be the bottom (or tub) of the monocoque
...& then, the next step would be to design & create a top (or cap)

Which is a whole 'nuther project(s)
...that we could "go" 100's of different ways with
Then, the (2) pieces could be bonded together, to form a complete monocoque

 

[Denny]

The way cars are built is a skeleton frame with chassis mounting points then skinned over with fiberglass. To make the fiberglass strong enough to support a suspension it would end up being thick and heavy to be strong enough. I’m thinking more 60/40-50/50.

 

[Functional Artist]

Hey Denny,

If I were building a high performance (100MPH+) full size car (2,000+ lbs.), I would agree 100%
...but, I'm designing racers that run in the 20 - 40MPH range & should only weigh ~300 lbs. (with driver)

I'ma really lovin' doin' all of this research & learning about new materials & different building techniques
...& am gettin' so excited, thinkin' about ALL of the practically endless possibilities
...& also, am'a thinkin' that "we" (me with your guys help) can design & build a bunch of "BAD AZZ" racers
Like maybe something like this

Alzo, yester...eve...I wasa drawin' on soam foam

Anyone care to guess what I'ma tryin' for here?