ST2-NG Pre-build "Think Tank"

Kartorbust

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Well my wife wants me to start on this over the winter, so my hand has been kind of forced. Going over the plans, the cage is fully welded, problem is, it will require a cut off wheel and re-weld if I need to pull the engine either for work or swap to a different engine. Anyone have ideas on how to do a quick detach cage? I know bolted cages are less than desirable since unless done properly, they are not as strong as fully welded. However, it's just 2 bars behind the seat, so other than just protection over the drivetrain, it might have some structural use, but my thoughts are, take some tubing, split it in half as a 'U', fish mouth the cage tube, drill holes in the U and through the top loop, then put a couple grade 6 bolts through top and bottom to make it removable. Good idea/bad idea?


I have some split collars coming in from Amazon, only a couple, need to order more. I may not follow the whole plan, since I'm planning on building this as the long travel version and get some Fox Air shocks. Going to use the 1" keyed axles with Spicer 1000 series U-jounts, no idea on their strength or max angle, I asked Summit Racing but nada from them for the last couple months, so I'll take my chances.

Still trying to decide on the hubs front and rear. I do want to do front brakes for sure, since the single brake in the rear, while it might be sufficient, having brakes up front will help out a lot. I don't know if 150 or 250cc go kart brakes will be able to stop this, especially without brake fade. With this probably going to weigh half a ton, braking is going to be a huge necessity, especially if this thing gets up to 40+mph.

Now for some good news, as far as I can tell, UTVs, golf carts and quads can be driven on the streets here, long as the operator has a class O (operators) driver's license, needs a head light and tail light. This is from the Sheriff's posting for the 4th of July, so maybe it's just on occasion, but I think it's year around.

Need to locate a comfortable seat and 5pt harness. The Jegs seat that a lot of people use, doesn't look comfortable.
 

madprofessor

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Be very sure about those street laws. My research into that here in Jacksonville came up with a stark choice. Either you have to make it pass an inspection with every requirement for an automobile, right down to bumper height and hazard blinkers, or make it a SMV (Slow Moving Vehicle).
SMV is how golf carts are registered here, and they must test being capable of a speed of at least 20mph, but test as not being capable of going any faster than 25mph. On top of that, you can't drive them on any road with a posted speed limit above 35mph..
Just not worth it here.
 

Kartorbust

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Out here, in rural, unincorporated villages, we can run ATVs and UTVs on the road, cannot exceed 30mph. Just need a head light, tail light, and 5 foot tall whip with an orange flag that is not less than 30 square inches in size.

To ride it on trails and on the road, just need a driver's license or farm permit. Limited to no more than 1 ton (2000lbs) dry weight. Need a muffler with a US forestry certified spark arrestor on it. Find a two stroke muffler...may be a challenge, not all mufflers are created equal. The 2 stroke snorkel has been discontinued for quote some time.
 

Kartorbust

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Some parts arrived today, 1" split collars. However, I didn't realize they were not for keyed shafts, so I'm not returning them. Either I'll use them as is, or have a machine shop cut a key way for 1/4" keys, drill and thread for a set screw.

Next items that will be ordered, u-joints. Have some lined up, just have to order.
 

madprofessor

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Don't know what you mean by "split collars", but if you mean a solid ring with a single slice through it get rid of them. It has to say "double-split" collars before I'll get them. 2 pieces you just clamp on anywhere in 30 seconds, never has to slide over an axle. Have 18 of them on my kart, and none of them are keyed. I cut my own 1/4" and 3/16" keys from 12" sections of keystock, and only long enough for the keyed part so I can still butt the collars up against the parts.
1” DOUBLE SPLIT STEEL NEW CLAMPING SHAFT COLLAR BLACK OXIDE (Qty 4) Free Ship | eBay
3/4” BORE DOUBLE SPLIT STEEL (10 PCS)CLAMPING SHAFT COLLAR BLACK OXIDE free ship | eBay
 

Kartorbust

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Don't know what you mean by "split collars", but if you mean a solid ring with a single slice through it get rid of them. It has to say "double-split" collars before I'll get them. 2 pieces you just clamp on anywhere in 30 seconds, never has to slide over an axle. Have 18 of them on my kart, and none of them are keyed. I cut my own 1/4" and 3/16" keys from 12" sections of keystock, and only long enough for the keyed part so I can still butt the collars up against the parts.
1” DOUBLE SPLIT STEEL NEW CLAMPING SHAFT COLLAR BLACK OXIDE (Qty 4) Free Ship | eBay
3/4” BORE DOUBLE SPLIT STEEL (10 PCS)CLAMPING SHAFT COLLAR BLACK OXIDE free ship | eBay

Thos are essentially the same ones I ordered. Should've paid more attention to see if they were keyed.

Anyway, found out that the engine may be shot. Neither my brother or dad could get it to turn over with the pull start. That's with it being soaked in oil for several days and with SeaFoam as well. So either I continue to pursue this engine, or I'll look for a different one, preferably water cooled, either motorcycle or snowmobile. Though starting to get a bit worried, if I go the snowmobile route, clutching seems to be more of an issue to get it right.
 

Kartorbust

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With the engine possibly being shot, may start looking at motorcycle engines, possibly the Ninja 250R. Its liquid cooled, so overheating shouldn't be an issue, especially since a water temp gauge is easy to get a hold of. But only puts out around 30-38hp, whereas the Panther is about 50hp. Badland recommends at minimum a 400cc engine, so I could be well underpowered, unless I gear deep, like smallest sprocket possible on the engine, with maybe a 60 tooth on the spool, or at least running a jackshaft for extra gear reduction. I'm trying to run a Bearclaw 25x10.5x11 rear tire and a 25x8x in the front.
 

Denny

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If you stay with a snowmobile engine try to get the complete sled. This way you have your clutches and jackshaft material not to mention a nice tachometer.
 

Kartorbust

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If you stay with a snowmobile engine try to get the complete sled. This way you have your clutches and jackshaft material not to mention a nice tachometer.

Well it is a complete sled, just a very non runner. It was bought mostly on impulse and under the impression it was a runner. But the clutches do need a rebuild and clean up. I should've waited or pushed for a start up before I gave the green light to buy it. I had sent my dad and brother the money to purchase it, under that assumption. $300 mistake seems like.
 

Denny

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Don’t think of it as a mistake. Think of it as a $300.00 education you will remember for the rest of your life. You could try a 50/50 mix of acetone and automatic trans fluid. You could put a big pipe wrench on the clutch then try rocking the crank back and forth. If that does not work then you could pull the head and try tapping the pistons with the wood handle of a BFH. You might as well keep the education going. Right.
 

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At the moment it is soaking in engine oil and seafoam. If they have ATF and Acetone I'll see if they can pour some into the cylinders. I do have room for it here at home, just do some reorganizing, but it's still at my dad's new place. So it's just him and my brother trying to get it freed up. My concern is, cylinder bores are shot. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find cylinders yet. Pistons, rings, and wrist pins. But cylinders and connecting rods nothing yet. Only been looking at Dennis Kirk, haven't tried else where yet. It could be a great runner, if it can turn over.

Problem is, our engine knowledge is limited, we had friends that tuned our last sleds. This one, kind of on our own. If need be, they can bring it down Thanksgiving and I can work on it over the winter. Being realistic, I don't have high hope's this will be a runner so looking for a backup to use if need be.

Told my brother to pull the heads, still hasn't done that yet, probably worried it's worse, but also doesn't want to lose parts. I told him just to leave the head bolts in the head so they stay in place as he takes them off.
 

Denny

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It may have steel sleeves in which case it could be honed or bored over and have new pistons fitted. I doubt you will find cylinders. Never seen a sled need rods unless it was blown up bad.
 

Kartorbust

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Cast aluminum cylinders from what my brother was able to ascertain from my Vintage Snowmobiles reference book. Goodish news is, he was finally able to turn the engine over with the pull rope. He hasn't tried to start it up yet. Says it sounds a bit crusty.
 

Denny

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Now drop about an ounce of 2 stroke oil in each cylinder and rotate engine with the plugs out about a dozen times. But first blow the cylinders out with compressed air first to remove any junk that may be in them.
 

Kartorbust

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Well my brother did try to start it. No dice. Granted, I doubt he verified spark. At the moment, the plan is to soak the carb in a carb cleaner and see if it will start. If it does start, going to pick up a new carburetor.
 

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No engine update. But I'm moving towards using Miata CV axles and leaving them at factory length. They're significantly cheaper than running 1310 Ujoints. I can get a pair of Miata axles for like half the cost of 8 1310 yokes and 4 u-joints. Then use Miata wheel hub/bearings, just need to find wheels that fit that bolt pattern.

An added bonus is, they should also have a similar max working angle, so I could get the same amount of wheel travel. However they are longer than what the plans call for to use, by about 13.5" wide stance should be beneficial. Overall width without tires will be close to 60". Gonna be a wide boy!
 

Kartorbust

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If you really want beneficial results, widen the stance on the front wheels also. The more you make it like a trike, the easier it'll be to roll it over.

That is the plan. However in certain vehicles, a wider rear over the front, with wider tires act like a sway bar, to help prevent roll over. That's why classic sand rails that use the torsion front trailing arm suspension, have more narrow front and wider rear. In that case, it is desirable.
 

Kartorbust

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You do have a point. Mine will mostly be built for paved road use and some low maintenance roads (will start that project within the next couple years). Was actually told never to run the same size tire on that without running at least a rear sway bar.

With running a 4pt or 5pt harness, what are the thoughts on wearing a neck brace with it?
 
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