Predator Lighting Coil

[bob58o]

I don't think it is actually a Kohler Flywheel.
I asked him to make sure before he ships it.

It looks like a 196cc Clone Kit.
So maybe I won't be getting a Kohler Flywheel for Christmas?

 

[Kartorbust]

The red ignition switch screams Honda, however Caroll Stream gas engines are red as well, a slightly brighter red, so th0se could be CS parts or Honda. Unless there's more clones out there that are close to Honda Red.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[bob58o]

The red ignition switch screams Honda, however Caroll Stream gas engines are red as well, a slightly brighter red, so th0se could be CS parts or Honda. Unless there's more clones out there that are close to Honda Red.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

I agree. I don't think it a Kohler. But maybe it is a custom kit? Luckily I told him to wait before shipping. I did already pay. He seemed reasonable though.

 

[Kartorbust]

I agree. I don't think it a Kohler. But maybe it is a custom kit? Luckily I told him to wait before shipping. I did already pay. He seemed reasonable though.

Worse that happens is your out of the money. However I feel like the ad is misleading. If I'm not mistaken (45% I'm not) just about every engine that has electric start has a hole in the side for the starter cog to meet the flywheel starter ring, and I'm certain the Predator 212 does not have such a spot for it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[bob58o]

So the seller says he got the CLONE electric conversion kit, but had a Hemi Predator so the flywheel with the kit didn't fit. He says he ordered a Kohler Flywheel from a lawnmower shop or something.

So he says it IS a KOHLER flywheel. And he said it DID fit on his Hemi.

So I'm thinking I go with this 12v 50 watt charging stator/coil system.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lighting-C...182797876046?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10


And This Kohler Rectifier Regulator for 15 amp alternator systems.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Voltage-Re...291808737647?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

The above charging coils appear to be "two wire", so I can run the +'s to one input on the rectifier and the negatives to the second input on the rectifier.

Since there are only three leads on the rectifier, I assume it just needs a single output to the positive side of the battery??

Two of these are cheaper than the 50 watt one above.
And one of them comes with the kit.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/GX160-GX20...161063895731?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

Single Wire?
I am assuming they ground to the block?

And I can just run the two wires to the same input of the rectifier?
And what about the other rectifier input? Also to the block? Or to the - battery? Or do I ground the - battery to the block?

If I'm not mistaken (45% I'm not) just about every engine that has electric start has a hole in the side for the starter cog to meet the flywheel starter ring, and I'm certain the Predator 212 does not have such a spot for it.

I can make holes. I'm ok at that. LOL

This shows it all put together with the Kohler Flywheel and relief cut in the blower housing. I think this might be the seller.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8o_ryMcWPM&t=53s

 

[bob58o]

So What is coming in my kit..

Kohler 17 025 30S
https://www.jackssmallengines.com/jacks-parts-lookup/part/kohler/1702530s
~$80 shipped.

The Key-switch box.
$21.50 shipped
https://www.ebay.com/i/192382476023?chn=ps

The starter motor.
$23.50 shipped.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Starter-Mo...483436&hash=item4cf4d80774:g:Cc8AAOSw5VFWF9zM

Single Stator/ Lighting Coil.
3 amps?
$7.85 shipped
https://www.ebay.com/p/Charging-Coil-Fits-Honda-5-5hp-6-5hp-Gx160-Gx200-Engine-3-Amp/1731523927


So it would have cost me $135 to buy all these parts individually and new.
(The Clone Kits that some people use on non-hemi Predators are around $75-$85.)

This is a genuine Kohler Flywheel.
I got a "like new" kit with Kohler FW (fits Hemi) for the same price as Clone kit with clone FW (which taper is questionable on non-Hemi).

So for ~$185, I can have an electric start, Hemi Predator 212 with 3 AMP Lighting Coil (3 amp, AC output) and Genuine Kohler Flywheel. (Assuming it all works properly)

For an additional $15, I think I can add an additional 3 amp stator and rectifier/regulator for more amperage and to convert it to DC to charge a battery.

It would cost around $245 to buy a Hemi and Convert it (with only 3amp AC output), compared to $170 for Duromax. But you are getting a Kohler flywheel vs a Clone flywheel, 70mm vs 68mm Bore, 55mm vs 54mm stroke, and probably 27mm/24mm valves vs 25mm/24mm valves IIRC.

Would I pay $75 for a better flywheel, better flowing head with bigger valves, and a bore/stroke kit?

That seems like a no brainer to me if you are set on a small block and appreciate subtle performance gains . A decent amount of upgrades for only $75. You can get an electric start 390cc Lifan at Home Depot for around $300
https://www.homedepot.com/p/LIFAN-1...-Keyway-Shaft-Gas-Engine-LF188F-BDQ/203277126

How Do I Wire Two of These in Parallel?
It is a single wire, right? Not some coaxial connector?
would they use the block as a common ground just by bolting them in place?

 

[bob58o]

Or are these already DC out put????

Old 08-15-2012, 01:42 PM
anderkart's Avatar
anderkart anderkart is offline
Moderator

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Phoenix Arizona USA
Posts: 5,868
Thanks: 416
Thanked 1,044 Times in 876 Posts
Default
If your charging coil has just 1 wire exiting the engine, its either a 12 or 25 watt model.

The 50-watt (and above) honda designed systems use 2 or more charging coils, have 2 or more output wires exiting the engine, and use an externally mounted rectifier/regulator that converts ac to dc voltage. The 12 and 25-watt charge coils have DC output that dont require a rectifier.

 

[2SlickNick]

https://youtu.be/r-W0KM2FO_0

I actually have two Honda flywheels and coil's, and getting ready to do this on my non- Hemi after x-mas.

 

[bob58o]

http://www.sharkpw.com/Upload/CPDCategoryDocuments/Shark_Honda Engine Charging System.pdf

Looks like the 3AMP CHARGING COILS are DC and the 50WATT LIGHTING COILS are AC???

But this 50W one that NR sells says it is 12V DC output and is listed as a CHARGING COIL.
https://www.nrracing.com/product-p/31510-ze1-711.htm

 

[bob58o]

So I've put in some hours looking into this...

The flywheel I have coming is this.
Kohler Part # 1702530S Flywheel Assy-Elec Start 3 Amp
https://www.kohler-engine-parts.opeengines.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=13432

-So I search the part number and find it on JacksSamllEngines.com or whatever.
-It shows me all (or at least some) of the models that use this Flywheel.
-I click on a model.
-I find the parts list for the Electrical System.
-I verify that it uses the flywheel I have coming.
-I look to see which stator it uses.

For all models using the 1702530S Flywheel, the stator was this....
1708509S
https://www.jackssmallengines.com/jacks-parts-lookup/part/kohler/1708509s

Question now is...
Will the Kohler Stator fit behind the Kohler Flywheel and align with the mounting holes on the Hemi Predator Block?

Will a Honda clone 50 Watt Coil (looks and costs about the same as the Kohler) work with the 3A Kohler Flywheel?
To me, it looks like the Kohler has a single wire and the clone has two wires.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lighting-C...182797876046?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10


I really wasn't looking forward to a crash coarse in AC / DC Generators. Electricity and Magnetism were difficult classes. I didn't retain very much.

 

[bob58o]

Merry Christmas to me.

Flywheel has three magnets on the inside (generator) and 1 magnet (ignition) on the outside.
Does THREE MAGNETS tell me anything about the type of generator system it is? Or what kind of stator to use?

Do Honda’s and Clones have three magnets on the inside?

I plan on getting the Kohler Coils and Rectifier.
https://www.jackssmallengines.com/jacks-parts-lookup/part/kohler/1708509s

 

[Denny]

Merry Christmas to me.

Flywheel has three magnets on the inside (generator) and 1 magnet (ignition) on the outside.
Does THREE MAGNETS tell me anything about the type of generator system it is? Or what kind of stator to use?

Do Honda’s and Clones have three magnets on the inside?

I plan on getting the Kohler Coils and Rectifier.
https://www.jackssmallengines.com/jacks-parts-lookup/part/kohler/1708509s

These and other riveting questions will be answered on tomorrows episode of As The Flywheel Turns.


Denny

 

[bob58o]

Not much of an update here either.
I'm not certain which flywheel I have.
I assumed it was the three amp flywheel.
1702530S which uses stator 1708509S.

The other electric start charging flywheels I see are 10 Apms.
1702521S which uses 1708507S.

I don't know which one I have. I'm guessing 3amps? Would 10 amps require more magnets with a 3 pole star shaped rotor?

No new answers, More new questions... Here on "As the Flywheel Turns but goes No Where"

 

[Kartorbust]

Not much of an update here either.
I'm not certain which flywheel I have.
I assumed it was the three amp flywheel.
1702530S which uses stator 1708509S.

The other electric start charging flywheels I see are 10 Apms.
1702521S which uses 1708507S.

I don't know which one I have. I'm guessing 3amps? Would 10 amps require more magnets with a 3 pole star shaped rotor?

No new answers, More new questions... Here on "As the Flywheel Turns but goes No Where"

I'd say, just throw it on, get an ammeter and see what the output amps are. I think 3amp and 7 amp share the same flywheel, but the 10amp needs more magnets. I haven't seen many diagrams from Honda.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[bob58o]

I'd say, just throw it on, get an ammeter and see what the output amps are. I think 3amp and 7 amp share the same flywheel, but the 10amp needs more magnets. I haven't seen many diagrams from Honda.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

I'm on call today. Like a Dr. I call at 12 to see if I work at 1, then I call at 4 to see if I work at 5. If I don't work I might take a trip to HF and get me a Hemi.

 

[Kartorbust]

I'm on call today. Like a Dr. I call at 12 to see if I work at 1, then I call at 4 to see if I work at 5. If I don't work I might take a trip to HF and get me a Hemi.

Set schedules are so much nicer. Least then you know when you don't work.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[ezcome-ezgo]

Calling Dr. Bob... we have a GAB emergency on flywheels.

 

[pRoFiT]

I'm waiting to see the outcome. I have 3 non hemi preds on my karts bikes. Would be cool to add some power for lights. But don't want to waste lots of money testing things out.

Good luck

 

[bob58o]

I'm waiting to see the outcome. I have 3 non hemi preds on my karts bikes. Would be cool to add some power for lights. But don't want to waste lots of money testing things out.

Good luck

As far as I know, the non Hemi Predator taper is similar to Hondas and Clones, but not exactly the same.

Some have gotten it to work with no issues. If attempting, just be sure to lap the flywheel to the crank really well.

 

[bob58o]

I’m guessing a diode is located in-line where the brown wire meets the red. Under the heat shrink.
Is that the diode? Or just a terminal connector?

Top Right in the picture.

Guessing the the wire from the stator has only a terminal connector on the end, or maybe there is a diode, then a terminal connector.

Will a diode be enough, or will I still need a regulator to charge the battery?
If making 12-15 V at 3600, will it still be ok at 5000 RPM? at 6000 RPM?

The keybox for the starter has a 5 amp circuit breaker and an inline fuse.
I don't want to trip the breaker every time I rev over 3600 RPM.