Need setup advice

[joshw0000]

Yes, perfect. Kill switch to the front, always. My grandson calls it the "OH CRAP BUTTON",

Have you disconnected the low oil sensor yet? On karts and minis they bounce so much, the low oil sensor will shut the engine off, alot. Jus disconnect it, it's not needed, jus check oil and watch for leaks.

Not yet but I will when I run the kill switch.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Thanks. For this one, Id rather not open the engine. I've been trying to meet up with someone locally to look a one seater with a 212 for $250. It's got a burnt clutch but the owner claims it fires up on the first pull. So if it works out, that'll be my next project and shouldn't require a lot of cutting and welding like this one did. I might go a little more crazy with it.

Thats a real good price, for a live axle kart!!! If its "one wheel peel", see if you can get it a lil cheaper. They are usally flimzy frames and you will find a bunch cracks in it, after a good cleaning and inspection. Any extra frame flex, throws chains off. Sellers will take off clutch, chain, or throttle cable, flatten tires, do whatever they can to keep buyers from seeing it throwing chains. Typical scam artist crap.

I understand. They're really stupid super ez. But i have been tinkering with them (honda/clone/pred) for over 15 yrs now. I grew up twisting wrenches on b&s, and tecs flat heads.

I find the preds needs a lil more attention to clearances, compared to other honda/clone style ohv engines, to make em more reliable, and dependable. Quality Control is jus crap on em. But, it's still a good engine for the price. I've bought, built, and sold, a bunch of em. I still work on, and build em for people, I jus don't buy em anymore, I'll trade for em, lol.

Ducar and tillys, are really close to honda tolerances. I don't even tear down new outta the box ducars anymore, they are consistently in spec. I jus check crank end play, bolt torq specs, valve lash, and break em in. A really good quality engine, jus a lil more $, $40-$60 more then a predator. The ducar 212 comes with that pvl flywheel, that actually makes the ducar a better buy.

You'll get the hang of em in no time. Keep plugging at it, and you better post a vid when you get er fired up.

 

[joshw0000]

Thats a real good price, for a live axle kart!!! If its "one wheel peel", see if you can get it a lil cheaper. They are usally flimzy frames and you will find a bunch cracks in it, after a good cleaning and inspection. Any extra frame flex, throws chains off. Sellers will take off clutch, chain, or throttle cable, flatten tires, do whatever they can to keep buyers from seeing it throwing chains. Typical scam artist crap.

I understand. They're really stupid super ez. But i have been tinkering with them (honda/clone/pred) for over 15 yrs now. I grew up twisting wrenches on b&s, and tecs flat heads.

I find the preds needs a lil more attention to clearances, compared to other honda/clone style ohv engines, to make em more reliable, and dependable. Quality Control is jus crap on em. But, it's still a good engine for the price. I've bought, built, and sold, a bunch of em. I still work on, and build em for people, I jus don't buy em anymore, I'll trade for em, lol.

Ducar and tillys, are really close to honda tolerances. I don't even tear down new outta the box ducars anymore, they are consistently in spec. I jus check crank end play, bolt torq specs, valve lash, and break em in. A really good quality engine, jus a lil more $, $40-$60 more then a predator. The ducar 212 comes with that pvl flywheel, that actually makes the ducar a better buy.

You'll get the hang of em in no time. Keep plugging at it, and you better post a vid when you get er fired up.

I appreciate all the help. I have a workshop and consider myself fairly handy but not a mechanic. I do 90% of the service on our vehicles, as well as some bolt on stuff to my car, and other small engines (mowers, etc). I'm just not comfortable tearing into motors...yet.

Looking at that cart, their aren't enough pics to tell if it's live axle but considering one tire is slick and the rest are not, I'm assuming it's not. I'm going to keep looking for a better cart.

I'll definitely post a video of this cart when it's ready!

 

[BrownStainRacing]

I appreciate all the help. I have a workshop and consider myself fairly handy but not a mechanic. I do 90% of the service on our vehicles, as well as some bolt on stuff to my car, and other small engines (mowers, etc). I'm just not comfortable tearing into motors...yet.

Looking at that cart, their aren't enough pics to tell if it's live axle but considering one tire is slick and the rest are not, I'm assuming it's not. I'm going to keep looking for a better cart.

I'll definitely post a video of this cart when it's ready!

No problem on the help. I wanna see you get it right, not work on it all the time, and go have fun with it anytime you want to.

When you wanna get into building those lil turd motors, keep you eyes out for the 196cc clone. Excellent lil engines to learn on. Parts are everywhere, and really cheap. Impressive lil engine when you have the right combo of parts. They are jus like the preds tho, tolerances are every where. Get those into spec, and that lil turd motor will put a smile on your face. You see em for sale cheap, alot within the mini bike crowd. Usally low hr, take offs when they swap to bigger cc engines. They all are non hemi heads with 25/24 mm valves (small), I use the heads to swap on to 212 hemi blocks, so I can run more compression ratio and aggressive cams. Works really good for that low rpm pull, and don't have to run ridiculous gear ratios to get it to move weight.

When you get the other parts in, let us know what ya doing. You doing a fine job, imo.

 

[joshw0000]

I may have found a 2nd cart. It's a live axle with full suspension, roll cage, new tires (larger back tires like mine), and it has a Predator 212 with torque converter. The only issues I see are the seat will need to be replaced, add seat belts, and they owner says the carb needs to be cleaned. It'll idle if the choke is on but not if the choke is off. No idea what gearing they've done but that'll be one of the things I check.

 

[BaconBitRacing]

I may have found a 2nd cart. It's a live axle with full suspension, roll cage, new tires (larger back tires like mine), and it has a Predator 212 with torque converter. The only issues I see are the seat will need to be replaced, add seat belts, and they owner says the carb needs to be cleaned. It'll idle if the choke is on but not if the choke is off. No idea what gearing they've done but that'll be one of the things I check.

Owner says the carb needs to be cleaned every single time. Make sure to inspect it thoroughly before buying. You got any pictures for us? Myself I avoid the new karts at all costs, they aren’t as bolt on as older karts. There is a lot of good used off road single seaters popping up around for sale. One thing I will say, good deals go fast and bad ones stay forever.

 

[joshw0000]

Owner says the carb needs to be cleaned every single time. Make sure to inspect it thoroughly before buying. You got any pictures for us? Myself I avoid the new karts at all costs, they aren’t as bolt on as older karts. There is a lot of good used off road single seaters popping up around for sale. One thing I will say, good deals go fast and bad ones stay forever.

This is the only picture they posted.

 

[BaconBitRacing]

Well that's a Yerf-dog, a well supported platform. They are pretty good karts, if a little under built in the front end and a bit flip-prone if you drive like a maniac. Easy to get parts for and very upgradable, they are like evolved yard karts. The wheels are not stock, normally they look like lawnmower wheels. I might be wrong but they look like Go Power Sports split classic rims. If you want to learn more about Yerf-Dogs I know @panchothedog has one and @Cartinfun has one, and some others.
How much $$$ is it?

 

[joshw0000]

Well that's a Yerf-dog, a well supported platform. They are pretty good karts, if a little under built in the front end and a bit flip-prone if you drive like a maniac. Easy to get parts for and very upgradable, they are like evolved yard karts. The wheels are not stock, normally they look like lawnmower wheels. I might be wrong but they look like Go Power Sports split classic rims. If you want to learn more about Yerf-Dogs I know @panchothedog has one and @Cartinfun has one, and some others.
How much $$$ is it?

Right now it's negotiated to $400. Depending on how everything looks when I get there, I may be able to squeeze a little more off the top.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

This is the only picture they posted.

LOOKS LIK A WEINER TO ME!!!!!

I'd slap 'er on the @$$, knock tha dust off 'er, and give 'er ride for that price.

Yerf dogs are pretty stout. You can get complet carb kits, with both gaskets, insulator plate, hose, and carb for $12-$15. I don't bother cleaning those stock carbs anymore. Trash em and throw a new 1 on. The venturies measure, .580-.590", jus basic stock size. Drill stock main jet out with a 1/32" drill bit for a .031" jet size, put em on, works every time.

Nice find!!!!

 

[BaconBitRacing]

Another great thing about Yerf-Dogs is that cargo rack, think about all the things you can take with you, gas, spare tire, lunch... I've often contemplated if you could fit a mini bike there, it would definitely take some work but that could be cool.

 

[joshw0000]

I just read this week's HF brochure and the Predator 212's will be on sale for $100 next weekend (this week if you're Inside Track). So even if the motor is somehow trashed, I could replace it fairly cheap.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

I just read this week's HF brochure and the Predator 212's will be on sale for $100 next weekend (this week if you're Inside Track). So even if the motor is somehow trashed, I could replace it fairly cheap.

Is the 224 on sale???? That lil monster motor eats 212's and $hits 196's, at lower rpms,

 

[joshw0000]

Is the 224 on sale???? That lil monster motor eats 212's and $hits 196's, at lower rpms,

Yea it's the price of the 212. What's the difference?

 

[redflash]

the 224 is the new low end motor, they are cancelling the 212. The 224 is stronger, alittle more power, and most guys believe a better choice.
that $100 price is the close out of the 212

Da redflash

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Yea it's the price of the 212. What's the difference?

A MAJOR DIFFERENCE!!!!!

It's same size bore as all the other 212's, 70mm piston. BUT .......the stroke of the crank is +3mm longer, 58mm instead of the 55mm stroke of the 212's. It's a stroker 212 is what it is. This makes more torque outta the box, at a lower rpm, then any 212 out there, outta the box that is, built 212 don't count. If you put the same amount of money into the 224, as you would a 212 to put up torque #'s like the 224 does, you would be way ahead of the game.
I got the 224 on my mini, it actually only measures 223.2cc, but it's close enough I reckon.
The pred 224 is the main reason I DONT buy pred 212's anymore.
The pred 224 is a ducar block, has extra ribs and support built into the block. A better head, a better muffler, same crappy small carb. ALL honda gx200/clone196 parts fit it, except piston,crank and head gasket. It's a win, win, win kinda deal.

The parts cost the same to build both, 212/224, to whatever your needs are, so why not build the 1 that makes the most torque in your USABLE rpm range????
Jus the price of the 58mm crank, is like $100, if somebody wanted to stroke out a 212 to a 224, so why not jus buy a 224???

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Wildcat 240cc 59mm Stroke Crankshaft - EC Carburetors

www.eccarburetors.com

 

[BrownStainRacing]

@joshw0000
Here's something that might get you scratching your head, and thinking about the difference between preds 212's and the 224.
Before I put the 224 on my mini, I had the ducar 212 hemi on it. The pred 212 hemi is more like it, then the pred 212 non hemi. The ducar uses a lil bit bigger, and MUCH better carb (.010"-.012" bigger venturie) and a different cam profile. The ducar cam has a tad bit faster/aggressive ramps, making the intake valve close sooner, this puts the intake charge (air/fuel mixture) under more pressure before the sparkplug lights off. This allows the ducar to make power a lil earlier, then the pred 212 hemi. Even tho they both have 8.3:1 compression ratio, outta the box.

With the ducar, heres the best set up I found for my weight, riding style, terrain, and all out fun. I don't run the hard road much, some testing & tuning, maybe a run down to the end of the road once every couple months. so mph falls where it lands. Not really interested in max mph, but will test it.

9.0:1 compression ratio, jus a simple head gasket change
20" tall tire
6.66:1 gear 60t/9t
7" driven
3000 rpm driver springs
governored at 5300 rpm max
41-42 mph max
me at 200#

The 224 comes outta the box with 8.8:1 compression ratio. With a simple head gasket change, brings it up to 9.3:1

I tried the stock 224 with this set up, but the 3000 rpm springs and 6.66 gear was way too much. I knew the 224 would make more torque, but wasn't expecting it to come in so early. It made trail riding not fun, and more like work trying to keep the front tire down and staying straight. Very easily pulled tire off the ground at a 10-12 mph roll. And that's not good in s- turns with trees on both sides.

governored at 4800 rpm max
37-38 mph max

Changed the springs to 2800 rpm and swapped the 9t for a 10t for a 6:1 gear. Slightly better, but would still bring that front tire up with ease. Heres where things got interesting.

same 4800 max rpm
max mph went up to 41-42, same as ducar with 6.66 gear and more rpm. Going same mph, with less gear and less rpm???? Uhmmm??? It has to make more power, but how much more????

Went to 50t/9t for a 5.55:1 gear.
That changed everything, it calm down a ton, I could wheelie when I wanted to, blast outta the hole with out worrying about ending up on my knoggin. It was jus so much easier and enjoyable to ride now.

same 4800 rpm max
over 45 mph max.

Let's look at the difference

1.11:1 less gear ratio. That's huge.
200 less rpm stall springs, peak torque comes in earlier
500 less, max rpm. small carb ran outta breath
4-5 more mph, don't interest me, but it's there.

Yeap, there's a difference!!!!!

The ducar and 224 are no where near stock anymore.
The ducar runs a 4.54:1 gear with 20" tire and still governored at 5300 rpm
The 224 runs a 4.6:1 gear and 20" tire, turns 5900 rpm, no governor.

But now we got too much motor and not enough brakes. Them dam "turd motors"

 

[joshw0000]

Now I'm just waiting on the front sprocket and 7" driven. Getting that bottom spring out was a little tricky. The old one was under a lot a tension. The new ones are longer and under less tension so they were pretty easy to put in.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Now I'm just waiting on the front sprocket and 7" driven. Getting that bottom spring out was a little tricky. The old one was under a lot a tension. The new ones are longer and under less tension so they were pretty easy to put in.

C'mon now. They are too ez. Pop the 1st 1 off with a screw driver. Pull the weights out, turn over and pop the other off. Put 1 spring on, turn over, pop back on, then put the other on.