Manco dingo 808 rebuild

[Possom Point]

Ok I lied!!!!! I did another trial after I read yours and decided to go ahead

so same setup with non drilled muffler
temp was around 270-290 on the head

WITH drilled muffler was between 230-240 give or take So drilling that muffler made quite a bit of a difference, seemed to be a little bit more responsive with the throttle as well.
my numbers came from the upper left head bolt, hope that was a accurate spot
if not I can post both videos on YouTube later.

also I pulled plug again to check ….. see pic

Brownstain. Thank you for the tips. Had me stumped on what to do, never had an issue like this.

hopefully we can figure out why it’s running lean still……..

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Ok I lied!!!!! I did another trial after I read yours and decided to go ahead

so same setup with non drilled muffler
temp was around 270-290 on the head

WITH drilled muffler was between 230-240 give or take So drilling that muffler made quite a bit of a difference, seemed to be a little bit more responsive with the throttle as well.
my numbers came from the upper left head bolt, hope that was a accurate spot
if not I can post both videos on YouTube later.

also I pulled plug again to check ….. see pic

Brownstain. Thank you for the tips. Had me stumped on what to do, never had an issue like this.

hopefully we can figure out why it’s running lean still……..

it was in your head and you jus had to go try it to make sure, i do that all the time.

Double check your intake and carb gaskets, make sure that plastic insulator plate don't have a small crack in it. Very small leaks will cause a lean condition.

If everything checks out good, no leaks. Then keep opening that main jet til it darkens the porcelain of the plug. Light tan to a medium tan is what you are looking for.

From your plug, the low side is fine. The soot around the edge of the threads is telling me that.

I have no luck with some of those stock plugs. Had the ground strap break off, porcelain crack. Then some last forever.

I have better luck finding the tune with ngk bp9es plugs. Its a cold plug and will not burn the carbon and soot off so quick. Hotter plugs, takes longer to find the tune, well for me anyway.

Keep tuning, you will find it.
What max rpm is the engine turning???

 

[Possom Point]

Yes it was. Couldn’t resist. Still had some daylight left


I will check again this evening and see if I messed up a gasket or broke the insulator

i was thinking the same with the jet, seems it needs more fuel, they gave me 3 jets so definitely can open up another one to a .041 or so.

I really don’t know. The tachometer I had broke or battery died, not really sure. Was a cheaper one.

thank you again for the help

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Yes it was. Couldn’t resist. Still had some daylight left


I will check again this evening and see if I messed up a gasket or broke the insulator

i was thinking the same with the jet, seems it needs more fuel, they gave me 3 jets so definitely can open up another one to a .041 or so.

I really don’t know. The tachometer I had broke or battery died, not really sure. Was a cheaper one.

thank you again for the help

No problem. Them gaskets are so flimsy, it's easy to get torn or mixed up.

I've been using this tach/temp gauge. It has alarms that can be set, different hr meters, tach max rpm recall, other things.
It doesnt have that delay that the cheap square tachs do.
Works really well, I'm very happy with it.

It takes a battery, but I have the original battery thats been in it for at least a yr now. It comes on as soon as you start the engine, but you have to turn it off when done. I've left it on for days and battery is still good.

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[Possom Point]

I like that tach, I’m guna try to grab one. I like the features it has. Plus waterproof!!

 

[Possom Point]

I think I may have figured out part of the carb issue, looking at the kit I bought from eBay, and comparing to a “jet kit”. The emulsion tube I believe is a stock tube, not a modified tube like that would be in a jet kit, I’ll have to put the bowl off tonight and check, but could this be the issue?

or could this be another problem I just realized, I drilled the jets out to match closer to what would be in a jet kit and didn’t really feel or hear a difference….

 

[BrownStainRacing]

I think I may have figured out part of the carb issue, looking at the kit I bought from eBay, and comparing to a “jet kit”. The emulsion tube I believe is a stock tube, not a modified tube like that would be in a jet kit, I’ll have to put the bowl off tonight and check, but could this be the issue?

or could this be another problem I just realized, I drilled the jets out to match closer to what would be in a jet kit and didn’t really feel or hear a difference….

Get some color on the plug before messing it the e-tube.

Very rarely will I have to change an e-tube. It's job is to control fuel when the engine is going from low rpm to high rpm. The stock e-tube works fine for stock to mild built small blocks.

I would go back to the stock carb, stock jets, open the main jet up to .031".
Get some plug readings and open up til it starts to add color.

What are you using to open the jet up???

21 Pc Clone Jet Drill Bit Kit

www.doverpoweronlinestore.com

 

[Possom Point]

Get some color on the plug before messing it the e-tube.

Very rarely will I have to change an e-tube. It's job is to control fuel when the engine is going from low rpm to high rpm. The stock e-tube works fine for stock to mild built small blocks.

I would go back to the stock carb, stock jets, open the main jet up to .031".
Get some plug readings and open up til it starts to add color.

What are you using to open the jet up???

21 Pc Clone Jet Drill Bit Kit

www.doverpoweronlinestore.com

Something similar to that, used a #60,59 and 58 number drill bit. Went from the 60 to the 59 , plugged seemed to be the same color when I pulled it yesterday.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Something similar to that, used a #60,59 and 58 number drill bit. Went from the 60 to the 59 , plugged seemed to be the same color when I pulled it yesterday.

Have you measured these 60, 59, 58 bits???
What size are they??

Jets are easier for me to keep up with in inches.
.035"
.034"
.033" ect, ect.

 

[Possom Point]

Have you measured these 60, 59, 58 bits???
What size are they??

Jets are easier for me to keep up with in inches.
.035"
.034"
.033" ect, ect.

I did not measure them but I found this jet size chart online, probably good practice to double check them before I drill though

 

[BrownStainRacing]

I did not measure them but I found this jet size chart online, probably good practice to double check them before I drill though

Yea, measure with dial calipers to be sure.

1 thing you could try, is putting the stock air box and filter on, to see if it darkens the plug.

We can't run those open filters around here, too much gravel dust and red clay dust, that'll tear up pistons and cylinders.
We learned the hard way.

 

[Possom Point]

So here is a measurement for the #60 drill bit, coming up to .037ish. Give or take some (cheap calipers)

 

[Possom Point]

I took the “race” carb off and switched everything around, the race carb did have a stock emulsion tube (1st pic) in it and took the stock carb apart just for giggles and it has a 72 jet in it….(2nd pic)

 

[Possom Point]

With the old carb back on, I started it and left it on choke too long by accident, hahah my boy distracted me, but the plug turned black

 

[BrownStainRacing]

With the old carb back on, I started it and left it on choke too long by accident, hahah my boy distracted me, but the plug turned black

I done that to my small generator a couple years ago. It's still got that same old plug in it, and still going.

Now that I said that, it probably won't start, lol.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

I took the “race” carb off and switched everything around, the race carb did have a stock emulsion tube (1st pic) in it and took the stock carb apart just for giggles and it has a 72 jet in it….(2nd pic)

That 72 is probably meant to be .72mm, which is the stock .028" jet. It's too lean. A .031" jet works good with the stock air box and filter. You might need a lil more with the exhaust you have.

Jus keep opening it til its tan colored.

I run the stock air box and filter on my 224, it turns 5900 rpm. I don't take it there very often, it's a bit scary.

 

[Possom Point]

I run the stock air box and filter on my 224, it turns 5900 rpm. I don't take it there very often, it's a bit scary.

how does one turn 5900 rpm’s?????
no governor?

 

[BrownStainRacing]

how does one turn 5900 rpm’s?????
no governor?

The right combo of parts, the right clearances, measuring tools, a lil bit of know how, and a whole bunch of bud light

The red engine is a ducar 212, it turns 5400 rpm with the governor working.

My grandsons 196 turns 5100 with the governor, it's all stock except the flywheel and main jet.

You can safely turn your stock 224 to 4200. With a better flywheel, it can safely turn 4800-5000.
Any more then that is gonna take getting into the engine, checking clearances, and upgrading parts.

Get your carb tuned and I can show you small things that ACTUALLY perform better, and not jus waste a bunch of money on useless parts, or wasting time pulling the governor out.
It's jus compression ratio, ignition timing and air/fuel mixture.

But 1st, you need to tune it to the gov'ed rpm, then you can adjust the gov for more rpm.

It makes no sense to remove the gov without the better parts or the know how.

Heres 2 outta the box small blocks that are built and tuned to run higher rpm with the governor still working.
Notice the stock air box and muffler.

Racing Cams and Parts | DUCAR 212 Engine | 212-1000 | DynoCams

The 212 DUCAR Engine is designed to compete in the Predator classes. It features a PVL flywheel, cast iron cylinder sleeve, dual ball bearing block, eliectronic ignition, DUCAR hemi style head, EZ pull start design, ruixing carburetor, and more. | 212-1000

www.dynocams.com

Tillotson 212R MKII Kart Racing Engine - EC Carburetors

www.eccarburetors.com

 

[Possom Point]

I have a Ducar 212 on a mini bike of mine, and it’s STUPID fast!!!! I really like that engine!!!! I tend not to think about the PVL flywheels for some reason, fairly cheap and can turn the motor up like you said with “minor” adjustments. I’ll keep working at it.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

I have a Ducar 212 on a mini bike of mine, and it’s STUPID fast!!!! I really like that engine!!!! I tend not to think about the PVL flywheels for some reason, fairly cheap and can turn the motor up like you said with “minor” adjustments. I’ll keep working at it.

The ducar is the best bang for the buck, outta the 212's, imho.

I use to pull em apart right outta the box to check clearances. They are so consistent, I don't check em anymore. Jus check bolt torque, valve lash, adjust ignition timing to 28*, swap head gasket to a .018" thick, open main jet to .031". Maybe shim the crank on some.

They have a hemi head, but the valves are in a different angle then the pred hemi head.

Same 8.3:1 CR as the pred hemi.
The cam has same lift and duration, but the ramps are jus a tad bit more aggressive (faster), making it close the intake valve lil bit sooner. This puts the air/fuel mix under more pressure allowing torq to come in faster.
Has a better carb, air box, muffler, reinforced block and you already mentioned the PVL flywheel.

All this crap, makes it my #1 pick outta the 212's.