Steal on a Ducar 212

Rat

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The coil is jus stock, nothing special. Its probably got a 168f on it somewheres.
Yes, it does have 168F as a matter of fact. Being Dynocams saying the governor is preset to 5300, so I'm not entirely sure I would even need a Dover to keep up with it. It's definitely an odd looking LITTLE thing compared to what I'm used to seeing for coils. Even a Dover looks more like a factory coil than whatever that is on there now.
I don't see why a bigger bowl would hurt

I noticed that's numbers too.
Carb Yes, bowl no lol
All the ducars I've seen, every part starts with the DJ #

Idk what they mean. But they swap over with every thing else that is honda/clone sizes.
The case itself has DH behind where the starter would be and the low oil sensor stuff is.

When (not If) I do the electric start stuff to it, I'm going to hook the low oil to the ground leg of a warning light instead of the kill
(currently connected to itself so there's no dangling wires or open connections to be pesky)

I was reading that its a crude code in general that relates to the block stroke limit

1=single cylinder
68= bore diameter in mm
F= no one seems to know

Now We know that all factory 212's have a 70mm bore, HOWEVER it is according to Dynocams directly interchangeable with a GX200 which is a 68mm bore 196cc engine
 

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Rat

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So I mentioned the gassy oil issue, but what I forgot to mention is I'm amazed I didn't blow something up what little running test I did because the case was OVER FULL and easily 90% all gas.

She's got a full belly (the correct ยฝqt amount) of 5w-30 Quaker now.
The resistance of ACTUAL oil at the correct level hould help immensely with the touchy, twitchy, flyaway governor despite still not pulling a load yet.
First purchase is about to be...

Vevor comet 30 clone
Genuine Comet belt
ProTaper PT415MX 120L chain
 

BrownStainRacing

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So I mentioned the gassy oil issue, but what I forgot to mention is I'm amazed I didn't blow something up what little running test I did because the case was OVER FULL and easily 90% all gas.

She's got a full belly (the correct ยฝqt amount) of 5w-30 Quaker now.
The resistance of ACTUAL oil at the correct level hould help immensely with the touchy, twitchy, flyaway governor despite still not pulling a load yet.
First purchase is about to be...

Vevor comet 30 clone
Genuine Comet belt
ProTaper PT415MX 120L chain
I bet the crankcase is nice and clean now, ๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿคฃ ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜น
 
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Rat

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I bet the crankcase is nice and clean now, ๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿคฃ ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜น
Yep! No doubt about that at all...right there with pulling spark plugs and cranking over a 150k+ engine with a crank case filled with diesel before a tear down overhaul to loosen up the cooked sludge from the valvetrain.

Except this engine barely has 15hrs by the look of it. There was a layer of fine red dust here and there but not enough to say that it is much more than broken in and fully ready to abuse.

As for the red dust, we've got the high iron clay like Georgia here and lots of it.
 

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Since I happen to have a spare I decided to punch 8 of the 20 holes out in the Etube from their 026 (idk for sure, just guessing there) size to 030 (for sure) specifically for the lower mid range to lean it out.

Between that, and the fact I left the air filter off and likely having actual oil in the case... unloaded or not no more erratic gov, and no more flat almost a total stalling spot in the mid where the pilot is joined by the main.

I happen to still have a BPR8ES that was in good shape from where I eliminated all resistors from my 208's ignition system, which may have been a contributing factor in the improvement as well compared to the Autolite 3910X.

Only value any Autolite plug has to me is plugging the hole when painting a stripped head, or term storage of an engine... they are junk and being an "X" makes it that much worse
 

BrownStainRacing

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Since I happen to have a spare I decided to punch 8 of the 20 holes out in the Etube from their 026 (idk for sure, just guessing there) size to 030 (for sure) specifically for the lower mid range to lean it out.

Between that, and the fact I left the air filter off and likely having actual oil in the case... unloaded or not no more erratic gov, and no more flat almost a total stalling spot in the mid where the pilot is joined by the main.

I happen to still have a BPR8ES that was in good shape from where I eliminated all resistors from my 208's ignition system, which may have been a contributing factor in the improvement as well compared to the Autolite 3910X.

Only value any Autolite plug has to me is plugging the hole when painting a stripped head, or term storage of an engine... they are junk and being an "X" makes it that much worse
I've never played much with the e-tubes.
I gotta bunch of old ones from different carbs, they are all kinds of differences.

Sizes of holes, # of holes, and even where the holes are at. It's hard to keep up with them hoes, ๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿคฃ ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜น ๐Ÿ˜†.

After I get a tune and a good plug color, if the build still won't give me the yank up outta the hole, tire spinning, slamming the driven into high fast, I'll put the gx140 e-tube in,.....and of coarse I have to go back and start over on the low and high speed jets, ๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿคฃ ๐Ÿ˜‚.

The cheapo Chinese carbs dont like the gx140 e-tube. They will start and run, but need alot of idle speed. There's jus something on the low side circuit I haven't figured out. They are designed to run at a constant speed, is my best quess.

The 3910x in my pred 224, been running since sept 22', gives me no problems. I had to take the cht sensor off back in May, the plug looked fine, so I put it back in.

I use a ngk bp9es (coldest) plug for tuning, then swap over to the 3910x.

A stock low CR engine with slow ramped stock cam, and bigger jets, will foul the 3910x fast.

Screenshot_20240115_082609_Gallery.jpg
 

Rat

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I've never played much with the e-tubes.
I gotta bunch of old ones from different carbs, they are all kinds of differences.

Sizes of holes, # of holes, and even where the holes are at.
The better carbs almost always have a 20 hole (Excluding the 2 or 4 at the bottom for fuel)

Tweaking the Etube is the best way to target a specific problem zone if you have a rich spot causing problems, but it's also good for when you just can't get it jetted without being to rich or too lean across the board.

Most don't know that the Etube is more in control of whats going on in there than the main jet is.
 

Rat

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Got the Vevor comet 30 clone, 2 Genuine Comet belts, and an SRT 415MX chain ordered.

The real question is if the Ducar will pull the jackshaft set up without smoking the belt.
10~52~36~30
 

BrownStainRacing

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Got the Vevor comet 30 clone, 2 Genuine Comet belts, and an SRT 415MX chain ordered.

The real question is if the Ducar will pull the jackshaft set up without smoking the belt.
10~52~36~30
What exactly is 10 52 36 30 ????

The combination to your Barbie collection????? ๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿคฃ ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜น ๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿคฃ ๐Ÿ˜‚

What are you gonna put behind the Ducar 212??

T/C or clutch?
If a t/c, what series and what size driven??

Tire height??

Gear ratio??

Your weight??

It will hit 5300 rpm with the right set up, but it only peaks HP at 4800-4900 in stock form.

I like to gear em 200-300 rpm higher then peak HP, right at my longest straight flat run.

I only got a 600ft flat level run here on the road. Every thing else is up hill or curvy.

Stall the clutch or driver, at least 2800 rpm to get that torque to the tire asap. That's gonna get $hit moving quick.

If a 20 or 30 series, you can clip coils off the driver springs to find YOUR perfect launch rpm.

Lmk what set up got, I can get you really close to optimal shift points for a 20 or 30 series.
 

Rat

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What exactly is 10 52 36 30 ????
Engine (TC output), JS input, JS output, axle
The combination to your Barbie collection????? ๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿคฃ ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜น ๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿคฃ ๐Ÿ˜‚

What are you gonna put behind the Ducar 212??

T/C or clutch?
If a t/c, what series and what size driven??
30 series 6"
Tire height??
26" for now
Gear ratio??
See jackshaft numbers above
Your weight??
210 fully dressed out for the skid
It will hit 5300 rpm with the right set up, but it only peaks HP at 4800-4900 in stock form.

I like to gear em 200-300 rpm higher then peak HP, right at my longest straight flat run.

I only got a 600ft flat level run here on the road. Every thing else is up hill or curvy.

Stall the clutch or driver, at least 2800 rpm to get that torque to the tire asap. That's gonna get $hit moving quick.
I have no issue with the stock garters, the engagement rpm for my 208 seems to be around 2500-2800
If a 20 or 30 series, you can clip coils off the driver springs to find YOUR perfect launch rpm.

Lmk what set up got, I can get you really close to optimal shift points for a 20 or 30 series.
30, ALWAYS 30
 

BrownStainRacing

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Engine (TC output), JS input, JS output, axle

30 series 6"

26" for now

See jackshaft numbers above

210 fully dressed out for the skid

I have no issue with the stock garters, the engagement rpm for my 208 seems to be around 2500-2800

30, ALWAYS 30
Wow!!!!

Id like to see a pic of your set up.

This sounds familiar some reason.

So you' re saying you have a 3.89:1 final drive with a 26" tall tire???

Or I'm missing something????

Primary is 52/10 = 5.2:1

Secondary is 30/36 = .833:1

30 series with 6" driven is .9:1

5.2
X
.833
X
.9
=
3.89:1

Is this right????
 

Rat

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Wow!!!!

Id like to see a pic of your set up.

This sounds familiar some reason.

So you' re saying you have a 3.89:1 final drive with a 26" tall tire???

Or I'm missing something????

Primary is 52/10 = 5.2:1

Secondary is 30/36 = .833:1

30 series with 6" driven is .9:1

5.2
X
.833
X
.9
=
3.89:1

Is this right????
It's a project purely for shiggles using mostly what I have on hand... it began It's exsistance as a Tandem bicycle.

I can modify the jackshaft in and out if needed but the 52t was the largest I had to work with and 36 the smallest.

The axle has a common 7s Megarange Shimano cluster which iirc has a top gear of 32, and an end gear of 14 (32, 28, 26, 24, 22, 18, 14) seems about right.

Big brain, bigger balls, No fear
 

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BrownStainRacing

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It's a project purely for shiggles using mostly what I have on hand... it began It's exsistance as a Tandem bicycle.

I can modify the jackshaft in and out if needed but the 52t was the largest I had to work with and 36 the smallest.

The axle has a common 7s Megarange Shimano cluster which iirc has a top gear of 32, and an end gear of 14 (32, 28, 26, 24, 22, 18, 14) seems about right.

Big brain, bigger balls, No fear
๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿคฃ ๐Ÿ˜‚

I knew it was familiar when you said shifting points.

There was a guy that stop by here a couple years ago with a mountain bike, I think it was a 18 sp, I jus got outta the big CR engine builds and went back to gov builds then.

He done moved on now. But I was no help to him and his pred 212.

It was a interesting build, and seemed plenty sturdy and fast enough for street cruising, but not rugged enough for the hill climbing trails that surround this area.

I take that back about getting "you to optimal shift points"

With that many gears....you dont need my help, ๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿคฃ ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜น.
 

Rat

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๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿคฃ ๐Ÿ˜‚

I knew it was familiar when you said shifting points.

There was a guy that stop by here a couple years ago with a mountain bike, I think it was a 18 sp, I jus got outta the big CR engine builds and went back to gov builds then.

He done moved on now. But I was no help to him and his pred 212.
I'm definitely not him, nor am I the least bit afraid to break or mangle things in the name of trial and error
It was a interesting build, and seemed plenty sturdy and fast enough for street cruising, but not rugged enough for the hill climbing trails that surround this area.

I take that back about getting "you to optimal shift points"

With that many gears....you dont need my help, ๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿคฃ ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜น.
Lol I'm looking at too many numbers so mostly I just need someone familiar enough with both the Ducar 212 and the 30 series to get me back into the ballpark.
 

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Rat

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The info I received here about 6:1 was vital to getting my 208 build refined despite the fact I'm running it 6.22:1 and kinda feel like maybe I should put the 10t back on and run it 5.6:1 because it does tach out at 5k-5200 before the Tav2 drags it down to 3800-4400 but the driver never closes more than about halfway...which could be the belt which is why I ordered 2 new ones. I'll see what a new belt does for it before I futz with the FD again.
 

BrownStainRacing

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I'm definitely not him, nor am I the least bit afraid to break or mangle things in the name of trial and error

Lol I'm looking at too many numbers so mostly I just need someone familiar enough with both the Ducar 212 and the 30 series to get me back into the ballpark.
I wished I could help, those extra gears are throwing me outta loop.

It surely seems like that fella could only use 6 gears for his set up.

Idk why or which 6 gears, but I do remember he had it set so it wouldn't shift off the crank sprockets, it stayed on 1, but the rear he could shift.

Try what you have, you can always change the t/c jackshaft sprocket. They are cheap enough.

I set my t/c' s up like a powerglide transmission, low and high only.

If it dont slam into high and pull thur it, I'll gear it til the poor turd motor is outta breath. If that don't do it......I get a bigger turd motor.
 

Rat

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I wished I could help, those extra gears are throwing me outta loop.

It surely seems like that fella could only use 6 gears for his set up.
He most likely had the wrong shifter for the sprocket count (huge issue for indexed shifters) because the more sprockets there are on a bicycle the shorter the throw it needs from the shifter to make the change.

The chains get narrower as well all the way up to 11 now.
So a 7speed in dexted shifter on 6 gears will skip violently between 4th and 5th

That's not an issue because my 6s shifter has a toggle setting that turns it from indexed to universal fit friction; meaning I could in theory pair to a 5 speed wheel or 11 speed without suffering indexting consequences
Idk why or which 6 gears, but I do remember he had it set so it wouldn't shift off the crank sprockets, it stayed on 1, but the rear he could shift.
That's because to run a jackshaft set up you need an FFW (front freewheel) crankset so the engine doesn't turn the pedals into a leg blender while using the engine to drive the rear wheel on the same chain line.
With a front freewheel like his, the engine power is jackshaft fed to the right side and down to the FFW which serves as the engine input and pedal power input to the rear wheel.

They can be front shifting by simply mounting a double or triple ring to the freewheel setup, but it's a nightmare not worth the trouble it tends to cause.

Try what you have, you can always change the t/c jackshaft sprocket. They are cheap enough.
Oh indeed, and a 9t would bring me a lot closer to the 6:1 prefered range but I don't trust the 8t, I've heard they tend to explode which isn't shocking considering how thin the bore wall is on a 9t compared to a 10.

I run 415 chain so a new gear being a 41 has to get some profile shaved off by being mounted outboard of the driven, given a hand spin and brought up to speed under the grinder. Done well it stays concentric as it gets knocked back. Redoing the chamfer at the teeth tips is hell on the grinding disks but whatever. Once profiled I torch it til its straw colored and toss it in a can of old oil til I'm ready for it.
I set my t/c' s up like a powerglide transmission, low and high only.
If it dont slam into high and pull thur it, I'll gear it til the poor turd motor is outta breath. If that don't do it......I get a bigger turd motor.
That's where I'm at with the 208, and I'm pretty damn sure it's belt stretch... It can pull a wheelie at launch, will run right up to 5800 if I flog it hard enough but the damn TC pulls it back down and holds it under 4500 max even flogging it.

Logically belt stretch would lead to wasted power, because it would take being able to consistently turn higher rims and be making power in that range to overcome the "extra" belt.

I can tell you this much, those 2.50-18 tires stick to the road like snail trails on Notel bed sheets so just playing around trying to do a burnout is useless without a little sand or gravel under it. I did accidentally dig a rut in some gravel last time I was riding because I throttled up an incline a bit harder than I should have for being so near a dead stop off a 150ยฐ left turn
 
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BrownStainRacing

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I forgot, 2 check valves for the breather tube have been ordered too
If you only have 1 vent tube, you only need 1 check valve.

I jus put my son's ducar 212 on my grandson buggy. Put the stock carb and muffler on it, turned it down to 4800 max rpm, and switch valve covers for 1 check valve.

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