To speed or not to speed.....this is my first build

[adsum]

GOOD deal on the stock flattop... they must have slightly changed the design this yr. In that case... you can drop the $ on a pulse pump (if youre plannin on moving the tank lower than the carb)... n if you n Jim aint talked... you can get a billit intake... IMO.

I think the pulse pump will have to be ordered. I'm pretty sure by the looks of things that I'll have to move the gas tank otherwise it'll be hitting the back of the seat.
The link below includes a new intake....two birds?

http://www.ombwarehouse.com/Predator-212cc-Go-Kart-Kit-Stage-4-Non-Hemi.html
Thoughts? It would eliminate me having to buy a new head gasket Question is....Will my TC be able to handle it...
This kit opens up a boatload of questions...
1.) Will the stock valve guides be able to handle the 18lb springs or will I need to upgrade those
2.) Will the stock rocker arms work well with the new springs
3.) Will I need to upgrade the valves or will the stock ones suffice? My thoughts, and I could be wrong, with all the upgrades I'm risking valve failure.

 

[Half-breeder]

1.)I wouldnt use the springs (mine sit on a shelf in my shed since i bout em... dont want rpms >5k.
2.)repeat answer...
3.)... more like valve 'flutter'... which is the item that 'acts' as the governors 'role'.

After a governor is removed the stock springs(11lbs) act as the next component to limit rpms... after the springs limitations are upgraded... the carb acts as the next component to limit rpms... dont remember whats after that... but for engine life and 'my' wants/needs, Ive limited rpms to 5k... stock springs.

 

[Badot]

From what I've seen, after you replace the springs the rod tends to limit revs... in a pretty spectacular way.

 

[Half-breeder]

I finally made it to the shop today... heres pics of the points of grinding to get the TC on the Predator...

Also, one 'issue' I came across, when I upgraded HP is the bearings for the JS disintegrated sometime after the HP upgrade... I upgraded bearings to a metal, sealed "roller-bearing" vs the 'ball' bearings that were in it from factory... but that is just me... experiences may vary...

 

[adsum]

Okay, So after some deliberation (more like a 45 minute conversation with a salesman) I ended up buying a liiiiiiiiiiiiiittle more than I expected.
I ended up going with

1. ARC Billet Rod
2. ARC #4 Timing Key
3. BP2 cam
4. 10.8lb Red Springs Those are the red ones right?
5. Stock plus carb w/40 Jet
6. complete gasket set including 2 extra head gaskets ( the two are meant for a clone so it may need to be modified)
7. Used header
8. Air Filter Adapter
9. Air filter
10. Billet flywheel

The total came to $348.00 after shipping.
I managed to get the guy to throw in a used header and everything I needed for the high flow air filter for $20.
All and all the parts came at a cost far less then I originally budgeted for so I was happy but I took a huge hit on reliability. More than I truly wanted to.

Well, tonight I began trying to remove the governor gear from the case. After watching a few videos and reading a little bit I felt quite confident I could get it out relatively quickly.
That wasn't the case though. After wedging, and tapping, wedging and tapping I still couldn't get that little snap ring out that holds on the plastic ring gear.
I tried prying the ring apart with two screwdrivers but couldn't get much leverage that deep in the case. I took a lot of caution while trying to tap the screwdriver under the snap ring. I was worried I would crack open the back of the case if I hit the screwdriver too hard. I even went as far as grinding down an old flat head into some sort of prison style shank in hope that I could use the sharp point the back out the ring.....still with no luck.

As I was typing this I actually came up with a new idea! I'm thinking if I use my little prison shank to keep the snap ring from spinning by lightly stabbing/tapping it into place at the opening up the ring, I could use a smaller more nimble flat head to push/pry the ring thus backing it off enough to grab it with a pair of pliers.
I guess that will be tomorrows project though. Tonight I've just had enough...
Well, that's all for now. Hopefully tomorrow I'll have another update with removing this gear and then it'll be onto cleaning all the mounting surfaces in preparation for installation of my parts.

 

[landuse]

How about using some snap ring pliers??

 

[Half-breeder]

How about using some snap ring pliers??

Agreed, that way you're not buying a new retainer clip(snap ring).

 

[adsum]

How about using some snap ring pliers??

Take you and your sense making outta here!

 

[adsum]

Agreed, that way you're not buying a new retainer clip(snap ring).

wait, wait, wait....I need to put the ring back on after removing the plastic ring gear.

 

[Half-breeder]

wait, wait, wait....I need to put the ring back on after removing the plastic ring gear.

Sorry... i was sleep answering... lol. Was thinking driven on the TC.

 

[adsum]

Sorry... i was sleep answering... lol. Was thinking driven on the TC.

I was going to say, none of the videos or text mentioned that!

 

[adsum]

Aaaaaaand even with Snap ring pliers the thing is so **** tiny and incredibly frustrating to get off.

 

[rmm727]

You just grab the gear with a pair of vise grips and yank hard. You're not saving the gear. They will come off that way. I would've have gotten 18lb springs with the BP2 cam. But it appears that 10.8's and 18's don't have much difference rpms. I run an NR winch boarding cam with 18lb springs and it only turns 6500. I've heard 10.8s rev that high so it may be a moot point.

 

[firemanjim]

You just grab the gear with a pair of vise grips and yank hard. You're not saving the gear. They will come off that way. I would've have gotten 18lb springs with the BP2 cam. But it appears that 10.8's and 18's don't have much difference rpms. I run an NR winch boarding cam with 18lb springs and it only turns 6500. I've heard 10.8s rev that high so it may be a moot point.

I have video of my stock spring gx160 rev up to and run (smooth) @6400rpm. But it's a Honda and not a clone. Maybe, even after all them hours of use, these old springs are still better than new stock predator springs..... ?

As far as that little snap ring goes..... I put a sharp, flat screwdriver up to it, and then WHACK it with a hammer. Pull the gear off,and it will come up with it..... Then grab the shaft, grind real tight, with vise grips, and twist it to one side. Then twist back, but pull out when you do...... Should just pop right out....

 

[itsid]

DO NOT INSTALL THE 4° timing Key!!

the flywheel you have has an 8° advance built in (the new 32° model by the pic)
installing another 4° you end up with 12°.. that's just nuts!

So whoever you talked to for 45mins wasn't exactly knowing what he was selling I'm afraid;
he just wanted to sell...

'sid

 

[adsum]

As far as that little snap ring goes..... I put a sharp, flat screwdriver up to it, and then WHACK it with a hammer. Pull the gear off,and it will come up with it..... Then grab the shaft, grind real tight, with vise grips, and twist it to one side. Then twist back, but pull out when you do...... Should just pop right out....

I used a pair of dykes and a screwdriver to cut and pry the gear out. I got tired of playing nice with it. Next thing I have to do is plug up all the holes and then start reassembly.

What can I use to flush out the case? I just want to be sure there are no plastic pieces floating around inside before I reassemble.

 

[adsum]

DO NOT INSTALL THE 4° timing Key!!

the flywheel you have has an 8° advance built in (the new 32° model by the pic)
installing another 4° you end up with 12°.. that's just nuts!

So whoever you talked to for 45mins wasn't exactly knowing what he was selling I'm afraid;
he just wanted to sell...

'sid

Just goes to show you that I have a lot to learn... I kind of knew I was being taken for a sales ride just by what I had learned from reading the forum. I didnt necessarily need to upgrade the flywheel or the springs but I caved at the thought of having all those extra rpm's I'm crossing my fingers that I dont regret that decision 20 hours after my first crank up.
well, I guess I could return the 4 degrees timing key and exchange it for something else!

 

[itsid]

a timing key is like maybe $4-$5,
so.. I wouldn't care much about it at all... lesson learned

in fact, installing it backwards should retard the ignition by 4° (leaving just 4° advance)
which should help at low rpms in trade of higher rpms power..
never see one trying, but I guess it should work *shrugs*

So in case you find the engine has more than enough top end and lacks low end power... it's worth a try.


'sid

 

[adsum]

a timing key is like maybe $4-$5,
so.. I wouldn't care much about it at all... lesson learned

in fact, installing it backwards should retard the ignition by 4° (leaving just 4° advance)
which should help at low rpms in trade of higher rpms power..
never see one trying, but I guess it should work *shrugs*

So in case you find the engine has more than enough top end and lacks low end power... it's worth a try.


'sid

Well I don't mind losing $4 or $5 bucks. I'll have to check the receipt to see how much I spent on it. I guess it'll go in the parts box with the rest of the stock parts Im holding on to.
As for installing the 4 degree key, I'm not sure I'd want to be the guinea pig on that idea. In theory it sounds great, having more low end power is always nice. (Cue tire spinning donuts)

 

[adsum]

Okay, so it's been about two weeks since I've even touched the cart at all. I'm ready to plug up the bolt and arm holes for the governor but I'm not sure what bolt size/thread I'll need to do so. I tried some Google searching but no one actually verified the exact sizes they were using. I think I'm going to stop by Napa today to pick up a digital micrometer, a Feeler gauge and some Plastigauge to prepare for the installation of all the parts.