the prohibitar nightmare

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killawatt

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ok hf had their annual sale on the blue honda clones and i needed a cheap motor for my yerfdog so i bring the thing home and did a little research turns out alot of people say to take the prohibitar off so i work on regular car motors alot so i thought it wouldnt be a problem:mad2: boy was i wrong the actual process is not that hard pretty basic but after i got mine back together it wouldnt run:censored: :mad2: :furious2: i was not happy so i took it back blamed it on the motor and got a new one. the 6.5hp motor for my off road yerfdog i have a header intake new plugs torque converter and lots of upgrades but i dont want to try taking the prohibitar out again so is it really going to affect my power? and is taking it out worth the risk of blowing the motor or having a rod shoved through my back?
thanks for any help
Alex
 
Russ2251

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I have no problem running any of my stock engines without a governor.
The general consensus seems to be that clones cannot handle the stress of a free running condition because of some quality issues.
In theory, valve float prevents them from self destructing.
Someday I plan on putting my clone through it's paces.
Until then, it continues to gather dust.
By the way...removing governor does not increase power.
Also, removal of governor does not affect its ability to start/run.
 
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killawatt

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so what exactly is the point of removing the govener and is my cart motor going to be suttiable for off road if i decide to leave it on?
 
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Russell ATV

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Russ,

I am going to have to disagree with you on all points. As you often point out, do not post hersey, post facts.

Here is a well prepared dyno results with various mods, the first being the removal of the governer. http://personalpages.tds.net/~nascarfans/TripleDouble.htm

Power peaks intially at 4400 RPM. Opening up the exhaust and intake open up the RPM and power range further. Bore the jet and get a little more. At about 5000 RPM, you hit a "reasonalbe limit".

The real purpose of the governor is to normalize RPM versus load. These engines were designed for industrial purposes such as pumps, chippers, and generators; all functions that change load over operation. By removing the load, you do not want your engine to race toward redline. The valves floating at 5200-5500 RPM is simply not a good way to limit RPM, but is useful to keep most hobbiest from getting into trouble with a low cost engine.

The most common modification on these engines is to remove the Governor, mainly to get more RPM from the motor and a bit more power. There is no consensus that this affects the life of the engine, but operating anything at a higher RPM or load will decrese overall product life. However, if this is indeed your only criteria for operation of the engine, might I suggest 1500 RPM for Max life (ohh, and don't change the load on the engine).

Anything can be broken, and people are finding the limits of these engines. They most often start around 7-8000RPM, and 15HP. They also require people to put lots of money in a low cost engine.

Any person who modifies a product should take responsibility for the modification of that product and the results there after. That said, everyone in this forum cannot leave well enough alone, as we are people who modify things. Whether it is converting a lawn mower engine, using industrial engines, or changing the tires on a kart, common sense should be executed on any mod.

I do agree with one thing however, running the motor intially with the governor will establsih a benchmark to start with. Have a little fun and then pull it. Then have even more fun.

Russ Barrow
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I dont dissagree with Russ on some of his points but I do belive you can squeese a bit more than 6.5 HP after 3600 RPM. Camshaft is what limits most of the torque characteristics at a certain RPM.
 
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I would not consider +0.10hp a significant gain for 1 engine at 800 rpm over governed speed.
The very next engine checked could easily show a negative number or -0.10hp. There is variability across all the data and cannot be considered empirical for every engine that comes off the assembly line.
I think we're just splitting hairs.
 
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Russell ATV

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Russ2251 said:
I would not consider +0.10hp a significant gain for 1 engine at 800 rpm over governed speed.
The very next engine checked could easily show a negative number or -0.10hp. There is variability across all the data and cannot be considered empirical for every engine that comes off the assembly line.
I think we're just splitting hairs.
Click to expand...

Not sure where you see .1HP, but the data in the article is .75HP at an additional 800 RPM, governor alone. That equates to a 12% percent increase in power. Also, these results have been replicated many, many times.

Russ Barrow
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killawatt

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my question is though is that extra power whether it be 12% or whatever is that extra rpm going to be that much more useful off road i mainly need torque i mean sure im going to open it up on a straight away but is taking the governer off worth the decrease in engine life and risk of destroying the motor is it that much better without it i dont want test results like personal experiences
 
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Russell ATV

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killawatt said:
my question is though is that extra power whether it be 12% or whatever is that extra rpm going to be that much more useful off road i mainly need torque i mean sure im going to open it up on a straight away but is taking the governer off worth the decrease in engine life and risk of destroying the motor is it that much better without it i dont want test results like personal experiences
Click to expand...

The extra RPM means that you can use a larger drive sprocket on the wheel and get more torque and useable low end power. While the RPM will still get you to a reasonable speed. I would target a 6:1 ratio from the engine to the wheels.

Most Off road buggies and Karts make around 25-35MPH, but most of the time you will be going slower, based on terrain.

Engine life is not compremised. These motors have created a leasure and sport industry. A new racing leaque called box stock and others are popping up every month, often replacing Flat head and 2 stroke engines that are no longer being manufactured.

If you really want to get into the nuts and bolts though, try this forum: http://karting.4cycle.com/ and then dive into the OHV Engine section.

Russ Barrow
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Russell ATV

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Russ2251 said:
Where is that stated?

What was hp at 3600?
Data is incomplete and therefore suspect.
Click to expand...

The data is there, you only do not want to acknowledge it. The article is about HP gains, so he chose only to note max values.

As for supporting data, I would suggest you spend some time in this forum: http://karting.4cycle.com/ in the OHV section.

The Box Stock class and unlimited class of Kart Racing is really driving the potential of these engines and various parts needed to get you there.

This engine is not a 2 stroke, but it is the best affordable engine in the market. I wish there was an affordable 2 stroke engine on the market that was not aging in a junk pile or could be used leagally when purchased new, but the EPA has seen fit to kill it for motor vehicle use.

Russ Barrow
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Russ,

You are smartest person on the forum, but you do have an distaste for the Clone engine that is tinting your glasses for this affordable engine. I think if you played with the Clone (like a new friend) and realized its potential you would understand why it has become so popular. It is not the best engine (or even one of the top engines) for motor vehicles, but it is a lot of bang for the buck. And you are correct (from another post), they likely cost about $30-35 to make. I find that amazing.

2 strokes are the best, you simply cannot beat the power to weight ratio of them. I have quested for these engines, but the EPA has killed the fun for all of us. I did find some in other countries, but importing them for motor vehicles is illegal.

You have done incredible things with the Lawn Boy engines that you use. They are great motors, but the work required to convert them to karting is beyond the capabilities of most people on the forum. SO, we look for the next best alternative; the clone or donor engine from another vehicle. Used engines are great options for the hobbiest, but require a learning curve for each one you find, and availability is iffy at best.

No personal attack intended, but your opinion carries great wieght in this forum. Use this power for good......

Russ Barrow
Russell ATV

PS, do you think our name makes us hard headed, or do you think we got the name because we are.
 
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Phatvortex

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Thread hijack :p

I'm thinking of removing the governor on my 6.5 clone too. But I'll probably be running flat out for good periods of time, would you advise I still remove it?
 
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