So...How was YOUR day, honey?

[itsid]

cats domesticated them selves
livestock still arnt domesticated
we just put a fence up so they cant get out

dogs we had to earn their trust
and the next generation only trusts us because their mother taught them too
if u break their trust then they're no different to the pack animals

BULLSHIRT (not even orange or v-neck!)

cats are force domesticated.. the ONLY cats that -is said- they domesticated semselves are -as odd as it sounds- the few Tigers that come by that buddhist temple to get fed and petted every now and then.

Dogs on the other hand.. or wolfs domesticated themselves;
long enough ago to hunt Mammoth side by side with humans.

And if you think about it, it's just logical as well..
a pack animal will try to find a new pack every now and then..
Lone hunters do not do that,
So a stray dog will happily join humans if there's no other pack they could join.
And cats will just run into the woods and be on their own.

that's why dogs obey to commands and cats most likely don't care about what you say

Again:
I don't say that dogs are always cute little puppies you should just play with, they're not;
but dogs do not attack for fun, sometimes the reason isn't obvious, but it's never just for fun.
(that's exclusive to humans!)

'sid

 

[fowler]

When I say that I mean they learnt that if they dont run away then thet get free food and shelter

Self domested cat is basically what happened



Also even if u killed an animal id like to see u take it off a pack of wolves
More than likily you would be the next course

We still had to earn their trust to get a share of the meal
And a few cave men need a way bugger share than a few wolves

And mammoth hunts were more offern a kill with a trap as apose to just taking it down

 

[machinist@large]

I've never been attacked by a dog, let alone a pack of them, but I have seen a self formed pack of local pet's that my ( uninformed) neighbors let out to play while they went to work having a field day killing baby pig's in my farrowing barn. I took down three of them; the last two I got a piece of, but they escaped before I could finish them off. Then I called the cop's.

When the two sheriff deputy's and the state trooper who responded saw the carnage the dog's had done, I was in the legal clear. In Michigan, a farmer defending his livestock against predators doesn't have to prove his case in court. It still cost us almost $5,000.00 in legal fees just to show up in court to watch the case's get thrown out.

And all the "family pet's"? All well fed; none of them needed to hunt for their next meal. They were killing my livestock for the fun of it.

I'm sorry Alex; over here in the State's, roaming pack's of household pets chasing and killing wildlife and/or farm livestock just for fun are well documented. Dog's are only safe to have around when the humans understand what it takes to make them safe. Forget that, and they revert really quickly.

 

[Poboy kartman]

You know....whether it be a dog or a goldfish.....animals do not use logic....and do not process information like people do.....

Their minds work on different levels and in different ways.....

People see certain "humanlike" behaviors in animals and associate those behaviors with the thought processes and emotions that cause people to behave that way....while the behaviors are similar....and have been reinforced by conditioning.....they are usually similar responses for very different reasons......

Americans in particular are bad about this......while a lot of the world will eat horse....and even dog.....we won't.....why?????

Is it because we attach emotions to these animals?????? I think so.......

 

[itsid]

Self domested cat is basically what happened

no that's basically a LIE!..
Not even an opinion...

Anyways it doesn't matter (not enough to fight about it at least )

And I deleted that previously so I'm a bit baffled.. now..
When I say I'd rather face a *p155ed* pack of wolves than a single *p155ed* Tiger, I do not mean that I could stand a chance FIGHTING any of them;
but I'm still pretty confident I could SURVIVE a pack of wolves more or less unharmed compared to a Tiger.

Since wolves kill for food or to survive under attack, they're confident scaring you away making sure you do not intend to come back if they're in "protective mode"..
a tiger will not, it will kill you in an instant if he has a chance
(and he surely does!) no matter if it's in protecting or attacking moods at that time.

I'm not sure what degenerated canine animals you have around the globe, but if there is enough wolf instinct left, you can easily survive a dogs attack
(easily does not mean unharmed, it simply means 'without' fighting back as hard as you can)

And no Pat, they're not killing for FUN, that's a simple misunderstanding,
they kill based on their insticts (for food)..
but they never learned how to eat a freshly killed mammal...
they simply do not know how, ..
and most wouldn't even be able to digest fresh animal blood without feeling sick for the next few days,
We bred that out of most dogs;
the turkish kangal is one of the few I know is still able to kill and feed on wildlife, most others can't...
So yeah, they kill, wonder and walk away... but it's not "just for the fun of it" it's a missing lesson and degenerated digestive systems.

treated like tools, they'll behave like tools,
treated as friends, they'll behave like friends.
It's that easy.

Anyways, we disagree on a few parts and that too is based on education social and cultural environment.
Grew up on a farm and there was a chain dog protecting the property.. that's what you think a dog is made for.
Grew up a small town boy cuddling and playing around with a dog in the yard, you think that's the way to go.

I don't say one way is better than the other (although I feel one is NICER than the other)

But tell me which one of the two would you like running around town on it's own?

And I have the feeling that this is the cultural discrepancy we're currently dealing with here.
a stray pack of ex chain dogs isn't fun to have running around..
several hundreds of stray pet dogs are running around all spain (most are now even considered 'wild' dogs since we talk about generations of offspring of pets here)
And you never hear they even tried to attack anyone...

'sid

PS on a brighter note.. we have a growing population of wolves in germany again..

 

[itsid]

You know....whether it be a dog or a goldfish.....animals do not use logic....and do not process information like people do.....

Their minds work on different levels and in different ways.....

People see certain "humanlike" behaviors in animals and associate those behaviors with the thought processes and emotions that cause people to behave that way....while the behaviors are similar....and have been reinforced by conditioning.....they are usually similar responses for very different reasons......

Americans in particular are bad about this......while a lot of the world will eat horse....and even dog.....we won't.....why?????

Is it because we attach emotions to these animals?????? I think so.......

Animals do have advanced emotions!
All mammals for sure, birds most likely, maybe even all species;
All have basic emotions (hunger is an emotion)

that's nothing to do with association or interpretation, unfortunately that is proven by inhuman experiments in the early 60s and later on by obeservation and documentation.

Logic might be a bit too far, but repetition of learned content is still very well observable and it is rudimentary logic (if A do B..)

There was an "emotion experiment" with a baby monkey that you can still see on yt..
I don't have a link and I do not want to look for it, it's heart breaking!
basically they scared that poor little monkey to see if he turns to his food source metal mom or a second useless but furry mom.
discusting!

But still being scared is an emotion.
dogs and cats can feel and show even more advanced emotions like 'love', deeply enough that some dogs starve to death because their owner died, even if cared for...

'sid

 

[Poboy kartman]

Well I deal much more with wild animals than domesticated ones...and even the domesticated ones are abandoned strays....problem children if you will....

And the only thing I've found to be consistent is that they are inconsistent.....

I don't have a problem dealing with any wild animal....they are semi-predictable...and controllable with the right precautions.....

I'm not talking about lions, bears, big cats....or the really dangerous top predators......

But wolves and coyotes are predictable to a certain degree....and just like dingos...have a place in the ecosystem.....and are somewhat manageable....but mainly....share one certain trait common to every wild animal....a healthy fear of man......

The rogue mankillers all share a common trait....amongst big cats down to rogue bears....a somewhat diminished fear of man....

Rogue domesticated dogs have NO fear of man....and. THAT is what makes them so very dangerous......

Yes....best thing...put them down....ASAP.....and I can't believe that sheety HPD....they need a good slap!!!!!!

They are lucky I don't live there....I would be pulling badge #'s off original reports and the story would be on ALL the local TV channels....not to mention the Chronicle and any other local papers....

This isn't trivial by any means.....

I used to tease coyotes for fun....not these guys.....

 

[n3480h]

I am occasionally called to help with local predator problems. Usually it's coyotes "stealing" small pet dogs or cats, but sometimes it's an abandoned or neglected dog who can feed himself better than his owner did. The owners ARE the problem, without a doubt. The most recent call was from a farmer who, over several days, had lost 5 sheep to a large yellow dog. I located the dog in the middle of a 2 square mile section and observed him for most of a day, while he caught mice and a muskrat. He was indeed now wild. No collar or tags. A call to the sheriff revealed several complaints on the animal from others in the area. I set up my gear and terminated the animal. I can assure that he was dead before he hit the ground. I don't like shooting dogs. (I have two very large golden retrievers that I love dearly). If I had my way, the neglected dog's owners would be found and repeatedly kicked right square in the . . . .

 

[Poboy kartman]

Animals do have advanced emotions!
All mammals for sure, birds most likely, maybe even all species;
All have basic emotions (hunger is an emotion)

that's nothing to do with association or interpretation, unfortunately that is proven by inhuman experiments in the early 60s and later on by obeservation and documentation.

Logic might be a bit too far, but repetition of learned content is still very well observable and it is rudimentary logic (if A do B..)

There was an "emotion experiment" with a baby monkey that you can still see on yt..
I don't have a link and I do not want to look for it, it's heart breaking!
basically they scared that poor little monkey to see if he turns to his food source metal mom or a second useless but furry mom.
discusting!

But still being scared is an emotion.
dogs and cats can feel and show even more advanced emotions like 'love', deeply enough that some dogs starve to death because their owner died, even if cared for...

'sid

Yep!!! There's nothing like a dead carcass to get a whole bunch of maggots insanely emotional........

Saw the monkey experiment.....but...remember....that primates are our closest relatives.....and are much more capable of higher thinking...their brains and more importantly....brain functions...more closely related to ours than other animals.....

Don't get me wrong.....my cat thinks it's funny to attack me....and he cracks me up doing it....but....when I first got him...he would make me bleed....

Now...he shows some real cunning in his attacks.....not only on me...but the poor unsuspecting birds he attacks......

But this is not logic per se....but reactionary conditioning...he still sees me as a great big play toy.....but now as a great big play toy that will hurt him if he hurts it.....

My turtle spends 12 hours a day watching me......not because he loves me....but because all he ever thinks about is food....and he knows that I equal food.....

 

[n3480h]

I don't know, Doug . . . . I think the turtle has the hots for you. They get so emotional.

 

[fowler]

Ha
Im not talking tigers
Im talking house cats
The ones that came from Egypt and sorounding areas

And dogs will kil for fun
Or more likely to show off

Our dogs are well aware how to hunt and kill and eat
They get the ocasional rabbit and oftern sacavenge off dead sheep carcasses

Yet a few have taken down sheep abd just left them

 

[itsid]

Doug.. what you just said reads like..

I do not believe in addition, but 2 plus 2 is four...
If you think your cat can do anything for it's own entertainment, you basically agree that it HAS EMOTIONS!
cats and dogs are what is called self aware!
They are well capable of planning (oh that window is closed.. let me try the back door instead...)
not to mention that hunting in itself requires planning based on experience and conditions of the surroundings etc.
even more so if you need to spread efforts amongst several individuals.

Yes monkeys are close.. much closer than cats or dogs.
Still a wild animal, no?

fowler, yeah, in it's body weight and strength a tiger is still much lighter and weaker than a dozen wolves..

And the ONLY pack hunting cat is a lion, and to be fair, it's obviously more dangerous to face a dozen lions than a dozen wolves

BTW wolves and dogs have seperated 135000 years ago roughly.. that's at the very minimum 17000 generations to develop towards humans.
earliest known domesticated dog was documented ~30.000 years ago;
cat's roughly 9000 years ago, that's just about 1100 generations so they're still closer to their wildlife siblings.

But you do not like the tiger as a comparision, well.. it is THE ONLY cat that domesticated itself.. egyptian cats are force domesticated African wildcat (Felis silvestris lybica) small and less aggressive than others.
But it's just useless to compare a single 6kg animal with a dozen 25kg animals;

but okay...
I'd luckily fight with a 2-3 of chihuahuas (feet horns) (2.7kg each) instead fighting a single house cat (6-7kg).
that better?
I'd survive both, but the chihuahuas unharmed.. the cat not so much

'sid

 

[Poboy kartman]

I don't know, Doug . . . . I think the turtle has the hots for you. They get so emotional.

They do...........Google up "turtle pushing a ball" and look for the one with the dog.....

 

[Poboy kartman]

I thought my betta "Little George " was dead this morning....

He was on his hammock....the water level has dropped in his aquarium and he was sleeping with his head out of the water....

I tapped the aquarium...but he didn't move....so I took the top off...and he flopped around...back in the deep water....ready for breakfast!!!!!

 

[firemanjim]

With mixed emotions....... Problem solved........

 

[Poboy kartman]

Got it...

 

[Young One With A Manco]

Really guys... Can we just agree to disagree here? In the course of a lifetime... What does this really matter. Doesn't seem worth arguing over for like 20 posts IMHO.
Seems like it's dying out now... But if it isn't then it should.

 

[Poboy kartman]

I agree....there have to be alot of more useless things to talk about....I'm unemployed....I tried to explain that since we have been friends for 20? Something years....it was just better I leave than pursue what would have happened if I stayed......

And it became very clear.....very quickly....that face to face....this wouldn't have ended well.....

To be honest tho....after his childest responses...I am very tempted to settle this in the real world.......

 

[n3480h]

Really guys... Can we just agree to disagree here? In the course of a lifetime... What does this really matter. Doesn't seem worth arguing over for like 20 posts IMHO.
Seems like it's dying out now... But if it isn't then it should.

This was an argument??? I thought it was just a lively discussion and voicing of opinions. Hunh.

 

[Poboy kartman]

This was an argument??? I thought it was just a lively discussion and voicing of opinions. Hunh.

....He wouldn't like us if we were very angry.....

Edit:.....It's a hard thing Jim....if I think I know what happened.....happened....but....it's for the best...it's something you will never forget....but....that's why the good Lord put people like you here to start with.....it's not always the glorious hero rescues that makes a real hero....it's the hard...sometimes unpopular....and regrettably necessary actions that we wish someone else could...(or would)....do....

You are still my hero....rock on.....

On another note....ANOTHER FRIGGIN EBOLA CASE HERE??????????.....YIKES!!!!