Race Kart ID

[JTSpeedDemon]

So I'm trying to ID the "Green Monster", so I figured the best way to do that is to start a thread dedicated to it.

In short: Anyone know what race kart this is??

I'm 80% sure it's an Emmick, since it says Emmick on the seat and I see some similarities with other Emmicks, but I'm not certain. I included some close ups on the bearing hangers (interesting to note the triple bearing hangers), and the front end, hopefully that'll help.

Changes I know have been made include possible nerf bar transplants, there are some stubs from the old nerf bar mounting points, the current ones are bolted on, not sure if they're original or from something else. Also looks like the front end spindles have been modified, the geometry has been changed, but that's relatively inconsequential.
And YES I have checked for numbers multiple times, there's just so many layers of bad paintjobs that must be obscuring it, I plan to remove all that and paint it up right eventually.

Let me know if you guys need more pics!

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

Really low resolution, but it shares considerable similarities with this picture of an Emmick Cobra! Look at the front end, triple bearing hangers, and the steering column where it mounts to the frame, looks pretty similar! But it does look considerably shorter than mine with a lot more steering column rake, looks like the Cobra was kid kart.

EDIT - Check this page maybe? http://www.vdm46.com/emmick-kart.html I combed through it but couldn't quite find a match. Looks kidna like a Venom or a Python. After looking at it, I'm thinking it's a late 90s/early 2000s kart, one of the later Emmicks for sure.

 

[anderkart]

I cant tell what brand your kart is, but you could send your pics to Emmick and ask if its one of theirs.

But if it's not an Emmick, I noticed the most unique detail of your kart is the curved lower portion of its rear steering column support bracket, and especially the way it clamps onto the frame... So as your searching the net for racekart pics to compare, I'd suggest you concentrate on finding others with a rear steering column support exactly like yours first. That's gonna be a really good clue, because there's been dozens of different brands of racekarts that all look very very similar to each other; with only the smaller details differing ~ And I can see that several of those componets I would typically use for ID'ing have been replaced/welded on; and are no longer useful in ID'ing your chassis.

Another thing I noticed is: You seem to have SAE bolts retaining the cassette's of your rear axle... So I'm just assuming your rear axle a 1-1/4" diameter, right? Or is it a metric size like 30mm? Only reason I'm asking is 1-1/4" axles typically only came on racekarts manufactured in the USA, and you could possibly use this clue to eliminate most all of the racekart manufactures from other country's on the metric system... Of course someone could have replaced your entire rear axle assembly from a metric axle size to 1-1/4". The country your rear brake caliper was manufactured in might be another useful clue determining your karts country of origin, unless someone has retrofitted it from a different brand of kart too...

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

Yeah I noticed I haven't seen any steering uprights like this one, hopefully that'll help ID it.
I just checked, the axle is a hollow 1 1/4". MCP brake master cylinder and caliper.

I contacted Rod van Deusen, the owner of this website: http://www.vdm46.com/
And he responded to my email! This is what he said:

"Hi JT,

It isn't a Emmick chassis, judging by the steering uprights, throttle cable setup, and slightly upturned lower front bumper (used on direct drive karts when raising the rear of the kart to push start it) I would say its a European chassis, possibly a Birel. Lots of badly executed modifications to the kart so its hard to tell exactly with inspecting it more closely.


Rod Van Deusen"

Interesting that he ruled out Emmick, I thought I saw some similar steering uprights in the pics of vintage Emmicks. What's he talking about with the bumper? Was he intending to refer to the rear bumper? Because I can't think of why a push start kart would need a different front bumper.

Also, I can't find Emmick's website or contact info, I don't think they're around anymore? In the meantime I'll send some pics to Birel, maybe they'll know.

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

I sent him another email asking why he ruled out Emmick so fast because of what I said before with the seat and steering, and this is what he said

"You're correct, it may be an Emmick seat but the kart itself is not Emmick.

Rod Van Deusen"

I also sent an email to Birel with some pictures, hopefully they can tell me something.

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

Well look at this! After poking around on Rod van Deusen's website a little more I noticed this picture! These are the bearing hangers for 2000-2006 Invader karts, and I'll be darned if that isn't the EXACT same design as the ones on my kart! Sent him another email to see what he thinks.

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

Well got a response from Rod within an hour!

"Those are definitely Invader bearing hangers as well as spindles on your kart but you should be aware that G.W. Nelson manufacturing (aka: INVADER) sold weldments and parts to the public and a number of other manufacturers. All Invader weldments were manufactured by a friend of mine, Danny Keen.

Unfortunately, your chassis isn't an Invader either or any of the numerous Invader copies I'm aware of. Judging by the weld quality on those they may have been changed to allow for 1 1/4 axle bearings on that chassis. As a side note, we bought out Invader when they closed shop in 2006 and built a number of vintage and modern invader karts ourselves using all original weldments on the original Invader welding jig built by Gary Nelson (G.W. Nelson). What I am trying to say is we know Invaders very well.

I have the pictures of your kart on file and if I come across anything similar I will let you know.


Rod Van Deusen"

So best guess so far is Birel or some other kind of European model, but I still haven't found a matching steering column anywhere!

 

[anderkart]

What's he talking about with the bumper? Was he intending to refer to the rear bumper? Because I can't think of why a push start kart would need a different front bumper.

Rod is correct about your front bumper, its angled upward to clear the ground when you momentarily lift the rear tires off the ground to pushstart. The engines had too much compression to pushstart without lifting. ~ Nowadays some modern engines on direct drive racekarts have a compression release so you don't have to lift.

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

So this thing probably had a 100ccish two stroke on it originally?

 

[Karts of Kaos]

It would be super if you could put one back on!

 

[anderkart]

So this thing probably had a 100ccish two stroke on it originally?

Most all racekarts were originally sold without engines, but the first engine installed in yours could have been a 2 or 4-cycle depending on what class they wanted to race in.

The design of your frame and rear axle were universal, allowing most any option:

1~Your front bumper is upswept to allow push starting

2~Your rear axle has keyway's machined on both the inside & outside of the axle bearings, making it compatible with 2 & 4-stroke engines.

3~ Your frames rear crossbar was purposely located to allow the option of running a 2 or 4-cycle engine.

____________

Some racekart frames were specifically designed for 2-cycle only, like this pic:
Check out the angled rear crossbar, there's no room for a 4-cycle axle sprocket...

 

[KMEFA]

Most all racekarts were originally sold without engines, but the first engine installed in yours could have been a 2 or 4-cycle depending on what class they wanted to race in.

The design of your frame and rear axle were universal, allowing most any option:

1~Your front bumper is upswept to allow push starting

2~Your rear axle has keyway's machined on both the inside & outside of the axle bearings, making it compatible with 2 & 4-stroke engines.

3~ Your frames rear crossbar was purposely located to allow the option of running a 2 or 4-cycle engine.

____________

Some racekart frames were specifically designed for 2-cycle only, like this pic:
Check out the angled rear crossbar, there's no room for a 4-cycle axle sprocket...

View attachment 125131

andekart,
What's the purpose of the inboard rear tubes ??
Is that for an optional torsion bar, or to hook onto for pushing or something,, or lift point ???
I cut mine off,, plus the nerf tubes.

 

[anderkart]

andekart,
What's the purpose of the inboard rear tubes ??
Is that for an optional torsion bar, or to hook onto for pushing or something,, or lift point ???
I cut mine off,, plus the nerf tubes.

Yep they're torsion bar mounts:-> https://cometkartsales.com/OTK-Torsion-Bar-and-Clamps/

 

[itsid]

yeah that poor kart was mistreated quite badly..
and it appears to be indeed a european made kart originally.
(measure the frame rails.. in mm that's usually a good hint if you get a whole number there)
if it's a birel (I doubt it)
it should have a stamped rear crossbar (homologation number)
model would've been on the bearing hanger ..
but again.. it was kicked, beaten and rolled over by a tank a few times and then birdpoopwelded together by an amateur..
with god knows what parts (nerfbars are not original, upper front bumper isn't, bearing hangers are likely replacement as being said... etc...)
What caught my attention was the tabs that the upper front bumper are bolted to,
those appear to be 'original' and they are not the straight forward tabs you'd find on most karts (tony, dap, swiss hutless etc...)
birel for all I remember fixed the upper front bumper to the kingpins so there were no tabs at all for most of their karts btw I know no exception..
but truth is.. those tabs could belong to the front bumper which clearly is NOT original to the chassis...
nothing appears to be original.. so the steering uprights can be a later addition as well actually.

tough to say the least.

what I do know for a fact however that this kart is no longer race worthy (too many bad welds)
and no longer hstorically relevant (too many bad modifications)
So it'd make for a nice backyard toy and nothing else.
a beater so to speak

I bet there's still a lot of life in that bare chassis once you fix most of those mistakes,
and once done you will still have a nice looking well working race chassis...
and it not having any historical value and not being trackworthy shouldn't be much of a problem if all you want is some fun on wheels

'sid

PS original bolthole distance of lower front bumper might help finding a matching upper front bumper..
narrowing in on the manufacturer...

 

[KMEFA]

You still made out like a fat cat on that ''freebie'', JT .
There's Guys out there that would probably give up their left testicle to have it. lol

 

[Budget GoKart]

i vote sell it for 1k and go buy a real racer!

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

Mmmmmm harder than it sounds. The real trick is to actually find a chassis lol. It's an idea though, one that could work.

 

[Budget GoKart]

advertise it as a 212 racing go kart on offerup and craigslist and fb marketplace and get 1k outta it and go buy one

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

Well, Birel wrote back and quite simply said it's not a Birel. What other European kart manufacturers are there?

 

[KMEFA]

I found ours on CL.
It was a bit of a drive to get them,, but ''well'' worth it.
There's also usually ''lot's'' of really good race Kart deals on FB, especially around ''Budget Go Karts'' neck of the woods,, that I have seen.
Big thing though,, is how far away they are …..
There was Guys out in Cali. that were pretty much begging the Guy that had my Kart, ''outside of Chicago'',, to ship it to them,,, but he wouldn't do it.
It would of probably cost well over $300 just to ship it,, plus make a crate ect....
Coyote racing want's like 4 - 500, just to ship frames..

If it was me,, ''un less you get someone locally, offering you stupid money for it'',,, to just keep that sucker, fix it up,,, & just have fun with it as a street cruiser.
It's plenty good for that,, & is a cool kart.