Picture Heavy craziness!

[pRoFiT]

not to sound discouraging. as i do a lot of discouraging things myself.

But, when the front end compresses (the shocks) will the wheels turn right? like if you hold steering wheel steady and hit a bump will you not go flying to the right? Seems like that design would fit a fixed front end and not one with suspension.

anyone else agree or am i missing something in the photos of the steering.

build safety first! then go out and be dangerous.

 

[chancer]

Thanks ProFit. now you have confused me. I staring at the pics wondering if you are right or not!

 

[pRoFiT]

yah i did a quick forum search and found this http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12730 that talks about the two types of steering linkage. i think maybe the way this is, is okay if live axle on front, like in 4x4. but not good for front suspension style...just my 2 cents.

 

[biddie_gibbs2.0]

Yes ifs is the way to go true. But for me this build is doing stuff I think is cool. Will there be some bump steer yes. Do I care yes and no. Yes I want ok handling but I'm not building a handling demon for twisties.

No I don't care bc I have no set goals for this go kart. Except awesomeness. I have a level of uncertainty that is awesome to me bc I can go with the flow, build as I go. This is not a perfectly thought out go kart by far. But it will be fun and cool.

Also I wanted something different. And as we all know different can go good and bad. Good maybe and it can open up a new world of ideas and designs of anything. BAD and in this case the functionality of the go kart with terrible consequences.

Back to the handling tho. I do believe there will still be a little bit of bump steer. If I ride it and it's bad I will come up with a shock to dampen any sudden jolts. But under lower speeds this suspension should thrive. Bc when one side is forced up the other end is forced down giving max traction. What I will be doing with the go kart, who knows lol.

This post was not intended to stop comments or questions or ideas. Simply to say I'm rolling with no plan and while functionality is great I want the look too. That's different. That's all. And that question had me thinking quite a bit too lol

 

[chancer]

"It'll be fine"

 

[big-d]

For anyone curious if this will work, or how it works. Next time you are in front of a solid axle 4x4 truck. Take a look at the steering tie rod going from the steering box to the passenger side of the axle (also called a drag link) and the panhard bar. The panhard bar is the one that hooks to the frame on the Driver side of the truck and to the Passenger side of the axle. It is very important that the drag link and panhard bar are mounted at the same angle and are the same length.

As the suspension compresses, the front axle will move a little to the passenger side. As long as the steering drag link moves the same as the panhard bar. The bumpsteer will not be noticeable. If the angles or lengths do not match, one will lengthen/move more then the other as the suspension compresses, causing bumpsteer.

This is the same concept, just without a differential and axle shafts.

 

[biddie_gibbs2.0]

If u think it will make a big difference in the way it drives and handles I will change the length and the angle.

Question: how would I be able to keep my steering wheel in the center of the go kart and let the drag bar be parallel in angle to the Panhard bar.?Linkages didn't seem to work when I was setting up the steering.

 

[8t6bronco]

Question: how would I be able to keep my steering wheel in the center of the go kart and let the drag bar be parallel in angle to the Panhard bar.?Linkages didn't seem to work when I was setting up the steering.

How about a rack and pinion mounted to the steering shaft with linkage coming off to the left side of the kart, a vertical shaft with arms above and below the floor pan on the left side of the kart, the top arm mounts to the rack linkage and the bottom arm mounts to the drag link.

 

[big-d]

How about something like this? The pink lines are the tie rods, the blue line is a pivot.

You would probably have better steering response if you moved the pitman arm to the bottom of the steering shaft, making that first tie rod almost level with the ground.

 

[biddie_gibbs2.0]

Forgive me for being retarded but what should this pivot look like? You have peaked my interest. I don't work tomorrow so I will be in the shop late tonight into the morning with this and putting my live axle in.

I'm debating on the rear axle suspension mainly because I don't feel like driving an hour to get the metal and I would be losing time on my day off before I would have to pick my kids up from school.

---------- Post added at 01:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 PM ----------

I image this pivot point to be like a long bracket that is slotted in the middle to let the tie rod slide left to right.

Also I cannot flip the end of the steering wheel shaft bc it will them reverse my steering directions. I tried that the other night and when I would turn left the shaft went right and turn the wheels right.

 

[big-d]

Pardon the crude drawing
This could be set up a few different ways.
You could have 2 (or3) tabs coming from the bottom of the frame.
Those would connect to the top of the pivot bracket.

Or you could locate the tabs on the inside of the frame with the pivot bolt in the middle of the bracket. The pitman arm would mount to the top of the bracket (above the pivot bolt) and the tie rod to the axle would mount to the bottom (below the pivot bolt). This would solve your issue of locating the pitman arm on the bottom of the steering shaft. Making it turn the correct direction.

If you had bigger tires and wanted to build in some mechanical advantage (allowing you to turn the tires easier when in offroad type situations) You could build the bracket with the with the pitman arm further from the pivot bolt then the tie rod going to the axle. This would make it so you would have to turn the steering wheel a little more then you normally would for the same turning radius. You could set it up the opposite way for a quicker steering response. (More of a high speed application) I hope at least some of that made sense?

 

[pRoFiT]

I feel responsible for this

As a Manufacturing Engineer i tend to ask the tough questions. My background is software test not mechanical design. Even though i've done some assembly fixture design at work.

I was only asking a question on bump steer issues. Didn't mean to make you redesign the steering if you didn't have to.

I just replaced my front end steering on truck. The one thing it has over your design is extra tie rods on the ends. That pivot with the A-Arms.

And i think they call idle arms mounted in place for the pivot location. There is a lot more then what a go kart would need.


But it looks like Big-D has some good information on it. I would maybe trust him more?

found a good ilustration of rack and pinion style.

 

[big-d]

There might not be enough travel in those shocks to make a huge impact on the steering? It wouldn't hurt anything to finish the rest of the build. Test it and then decide.

If you were rock crawling for hours or your arms were getting tired too fast. That rack and pinion would take a lot of stress off of you. With this design, you would have to run the tie rod from the driver side of the rack to the axle on the passenger side. If the tie rod did not line up right, you could still use the linkage idea.

I am by no means an expert (at anything really). I have been involved with desert racing for many years. A lot of my friends were in a lower budget class that was very competitive. Having a low budget with lofty goals forces you to study the designs that work and figure out how you can do it yourself. Steering was one of the things that would make or break a truck, literally! Keep asking questions, that is how we all learn!

 

[biddie_gibbs2.0]

Thank you all for the feedback. I love it honestly. All my life until now I was an auto technican. I mainly did brakes, steering and suspension, and engine repair. Those were what my ASE certifications were in. I enjoyed it but unfortunately got burnt out of it. The dealership life can really burn a soul out

The shocks on there is honestly for mockup. Rack and pinion is awesome but I also want this build to be simple. The wealth of information is truly wonderful. I may finish the build minus paint then test and decide like big d said.

Since the rest of my parts came in, I will be bouncing between my drift trike build for bigger people and this.

Pictures soon to come.

 

[chancer]

"finish the build minus paint then test"

That is always a good idea. (I usually skip) LOL. But some of the best builds I have seen here dpo just that. Finish the entire Kart, 100% then Test drive for a bit,

Then make any needed changes
Test again
Dis assemble
Paint polish
and reassemble

 

[biddie_gibbs2.0]

So I got really lazy and sense I didn't have wheels and tires for a 1 inch bore shaft I didn't get back started on the go kart.
I know I'm terrible.

But I did put my throttle and cable on the drift trike and did some minor welding. I fired up the 212cc for the first time. (man its really quiet) and did a 10sec test ride in my yard. Tomorrow I will take my wheels and tires to a tire shop to swap them to the 10 inch ones and slide the pvc on and do a little '' testing'' lol

 

[biddie_gibbs2.0]

So I spent today on the drift trike and I have some issues to work out. Brakes and Throttle sticking!

So I gave the trike some throttle while standing next to it. From wide open to idle, just a blip. And the throttle stuck and shot off!! I tried chasing it and gave up quickly when I saw that wasn't working. I then saw its trajectory. A TREE! NO!!!

holding my breath and squinting my eyes, a few feet before the tree, one side foot rest dug hard into the ground! FLIPPING THE TRIKE VIOLENTLY THROUGH THE AIR!!!!

....................

IT WAS AWESOME! the engine finally stopped. I turned it back right and assessed the damage. That foot rest that dug into the ground was bent back. Two welds for the supports of the engine mount was broken. So I rolled it back into the shop. Welding everything back up, fixed the change, and rigged the throttle. Went for another try.

That bad boy is awesome! It's so fast! All I want to do now is ride more faster and faster! I had no brakes and it was crazy and fun. Between my weight and the trike weight it carries it's momentum for a long time. I stopped when the throttle wouldn't return and was acting up. So I need to completely fix the throttle and get the tires installed. Also balance the front tire and get some front brakes installed.

Again it's awesome and I don't even know why everyone doesn't build one! A little more tweaks the next paint!

 

[Kartorbust]

No pics of the carnage?

Exhaust enters the turbo, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

 

[biddie_gibbs2.0]

I have this shaft driven engine and I want you guys to hear my idea out to make it chain driven.

On this open area where my output shaft is I want to make a plate that bolts to the four holes in each corner. The plate will be made out of thick metal. I want to then but a hole out big enough for a race and bearing to go. The inside diameter of this bearing will be the outer diameter of the output shaft. The race would be welded or pressed to the plate and the bearing would be able to be pressed in to the race to support the shaft and not allow any unwanted lateral movement.

 

[biddie_gibbs2.0]

Part of me just wants to put a predator 212cc in it with a torque converter and proper heating and be happy. Any objections?

The engine hasn't ran in at least 12 to 15 years. It had compression but not sure about electronics and carb.

Part of my want the predator engine for simplicity