[PAFR]: Camshaft Edition.

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Poboy kartman

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Good idea.
Po' Boy needs to check out 4:31 -5:10 to see 12:1 compression.

I'm afraid not BEGINNER!!!! You can't measure CR with a compression guage....and FOR ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, SURE..you cannot measure STATIC CR by cranking....( at least not an engine....maybe with mind altering substances?)

Soooo....the more you talk ....the lower your pants get for the world to see....as even the "most that don't know" can now see how full of crap you are.

You should go back to measuring top speed with a bicycle speedometer....more accurate than whatever it is you think you're doing now.
 

FreeRunner15

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Well this is new to me. There is nothing in the gokart world that i've seen that explains cylinder pressures. Stock is 85psi.

So this 120 psi of cylinder pressure isnt really compression? just PSI of compressed air?
I remember it use to be around 85psi. now its 120.

So the cylinder compression ratio is still 8.5:1 with 120 psi in the cylinder. okay.
So should I do anything about it to help the engine run better? I am at 30 degrees ignition timing and advanced 1 tooth on cam timing.

Port/Polished Head:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Y1UI0PSu4k
 

Poboy kartman

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The increase in compression shows an increase in DYNAMIC COMPRESSION...but as previously explained..CANNOT exceed STATIC CR.

So....no way you are at 11:1.....besides....11:1 would probably boost compression well above 200 psi.
 

mckutzy

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NO... dont skip teeth... that just brakes stuff..... If you are going to PAFR stuff... just do it properly....

You need to twist the cam gear a few degrees... make youself or buy a tool for that.....

http://www.kartworks.ca/index.php?m...d=1919&zenid=27a74b13fe71bfafc56a85c302e3604f

 

bob58o

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NO... dont skip teeth... that just brakes stuff..... If you are going to PAFR stuff... just do it properly....

You need to twist the cam gear a few degrees... make youself or buy a tool for that.....

http://www.kartworks.ca/index.php?m...d=1919&zenid=27a74b13fe71bfafc56a85c302e3604f


That must be the tool that the guy at dynocams told me he could use to change the centerlines.

---------- Post added at 04:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:14 PM ----------

For a Hemi Predator....

I used the +0.020" Longer Rod
I used a 0.026" Head Gasket.
I milled the Head about 0.035"

Should be 11:1 STATIC Compression Ratio.
Static Compression should be considered when selecting the Cam shaft.
Check out NR Racing descriptions of various grinds of the same series of cam shaft.
It is very informative.
 

mckutzy

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From what I understand, there is a couple of the gears already welded to the back side.. They interact with the crank gear and hold the crank in position... The twister is just a 3/4" hub with a long bar welded on... Twist in the direction desired.
 

Flyinhillbilly

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You make a good point. I didn't think advancing the cam by 1 tooth would make that big a difference. What is it, like 2 degrees? maybe 4?
Anyways I have 12:1 static.

I still have the intake side to port. I guess i'll do a compression test before I start the engine in that video.

It does still smoke a bit but not nearly as much with the crankcase plugged.
Flames:

There are 360 degrees in a circle. Count the teeth on your cam gear, and divide 360 by the number of teeth to figure out how many degrees it is.



Just some misguided advice from a beginner, of course being a beginner and all, I'd just line up the dots.....
 

KartFab

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Well this is new to me. There is nothing in the gokart world that i've seen that explains cylinder pressures. Stock is 85psi.

So this 120 psi of cylinder pressure isnt really compression? just PSI of compressed air?
I remember it use to be around 85psi. now its 120.

So the cylinder compression ratio is still 8.5:1 with 120 psi in the cylinder. okay.
So should I do anything about it to help the engine run better? I am at 30 degrees ignition timing and advanced 1 tooth on cam timing.

I got 120 psi cranking pressure with 8.5:1,

Also, if you go jacking with the cam like that, you need to clearance the valves from the head, and you need to clearance the rod from the cam Do you see that flat spot between the cam lobes? Its flat there for a reason. I hope you don't find out the hard way when you jack with the cam timing.
 

FreeRunner15

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My bet.... it doesn't/didn't run....

You just don't like watching my videos do you?

I have tested it with no load. Bent a stock push rod pretty bad from the high lift. Makes sense why they call it an "aggressive" profile.

Also learned in the process i needed to vent the crankcase or oil would seep past the piston rings and smoke like James Bonds' personal smoke screen due to gained compression.

Have since sold my .290 cam. Today I ordered chromoly pushrods which are pretty much guaranteed not to ever bend.

Sorry,Bob. I did not order the cut-to-length ones like you wanted me to but the regular stock Hemi length ones.
 

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Flyinhillbilly

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Ah, so it's in parts purgatory. I'm well familiar with that. Keep us updated, I'm interested to see if this works or not. Regardless, I enjoy your commitment to this experiment.
 

KartFab

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You just don't like watching my videos do you?

I have tested it with no load. Bent a stock push rod pretty bad from the high lift. Makes sense why they call it an "aggressive" profile.

Also learned in the process i needed to vent the crankcase or oil would seep past the piston rings and smoke like James Bonds' personal smoke screen due to gained compression.

Have since sold my .290 cam. Today I ordered chromoly pushrods which are pretty much guaranteed not to ever bend.

Sorry,Bob. I did not order the cut-to-length ones like you wanted me to but the regular stock Hemi length ones.

1) There is a hole in the block between the lifters that vents to the valve cover IIRC.
2) crankcase needs additional venting in high rpm applications due to air turbulence from the crankshaft (think giant fan spinning in block). Unvented cranks at high rpms can blow the sidecover gaskets.
3) your smoke problem could be something else wrong in your cylinder bore or head (piston, rings, bore, valve guides, valve seals) why do you believe its smoking 'due to gained compression'? That makes absolutely no sense at all.
4) why do you think the push rod was bent due to high lift? The chrome moly rods are just stiffer, and don't FLEX as easily as the stock push rods. A high lift cam doesn't just make them bend, they only FLEX under high rpms. I think it could be something else you didn't think of. You also jacked with your timing/cam timing, so you could have had
A) piston to valve contact, so the push rod bent instead of the valve
B) spring bind, which caused the push rod to bend

did you clearance the valve to piston after all changes?
did you measure spring compression after all changes?
valve lash set properly?
ring end gap?
rings clocked?
piston and bore inspected/measured?

The answer to why your engine is smoking and bent pushrod might be there. Also, there are limits to the ability of the engine to function if you go jacking with the cam lobes like that. I wonder how much lift you were getting.
 

FreeRunner15

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1) There is a hole in the block between the lifters that vents to the valve cover IIRC.
2) crankcase needs additional venting in high rpm applications due to air turbulence from the crankshaft (think giant fan spinning in block). Unvented cranks at high rpms can blow the sidecover gaskets.
3) your smoke problem could be something else wrong in your cylinder bore or head (piston, rings, bore, valve guides, valve seals) why do you believe its smoking 'due to gained compression'? That makes absolutely no sense at all.
4) why do you think the push rod was bent due to high lift? The chrome moly rods are just stiffer, and don't FLEX as easily as the stock push rods. A high lift cam doesn't just make them bend, they only FLEX under high rpms. I think it could be something else you didn't think of. You also jacked with your timing/cam timing, so you could have had
A) piston to valve contact, so the push rod bent instead of the valve
B) spring bind, which caused the push rod to bend

did you clearance the valve to piston after all changes?
did you measure spring compression after all changes?
valve lash set properly?
ring end gap?
rings clocked?
piston and bore inspected/measured?

The answer to why your engine is smoking and bent pushrod might be there. Also, there are limits to the ability of the engine to function if you go jacking with the cam lobes like that. I wonder how much lift you were getting.
[Forgive me for not answering everything right now. It's like a bomb of questions was dropped on me. Good ones too. I will review later.]

1. I noticed that hole for the first time yesterday(top-right next to intake spring-pocket) that caught my eye i was wondering about. Thanks.

3. The excess exhaust I believe was blow-by ,as they call it, because when I removed the plug from the governor arm hole to vent pressure The excess smoke reduced by over 85%.

4. So I tested the good SS PR on the intake side and wow @the amount of gained lift(picture shown with 18lb springs(or are they 37?they feel MUCH stiffer than the 26s but they look identical).
While turning over the engine without the spark plug I hear no internal contact and engine spins very freely But we will find out when these 'moly push rods come in.
----------------------------------------------------------
During the course of writing this post and checking lift with the un-bent PR i noticed the un-bent PR is now ever-so-barely bent. I did not yank on the starter to cause it and i had the valve cover off. More than plenty of space between P2V. But pic 2 is how much of an intake valve opening it creates. I know,I missed a spot on my port job. Did a nice tumble-polish though in exception of the tough-to-reach lower corners.
 

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Flyinhillbilly

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It could be coil bind bending the pushrods. Might be a good idea to make sure the spring isn't fully compressed at full lift. I'd just check it by rolling the engine around to where the cam is at it's highest spot and push down on the valve to make sure it has travel left.
 

FreeRunner15

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It could be coil bind bending the pushrods. Might be a good idea to make sure the spring isn't fully compressed at full lift. I'd just check it by rolling the engine around to where the cam is at it's highest spot and push down on the valve to make sure it has travel left.

Great idea. Love it.
Will use a feeler gauge for measurement as well.

I do believe the 26pound springs caused most of the previous bending. They have much less travel than 18 and 37 pounders before coil-bind.
 

Mr. Spindle

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I'm sorry, I missed something what are we doing now?

---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:14 PM ----------

Lease forgive me for missing everything.
 

Poboy kartman

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FR

Have you looked into increasing the diameter of the lifter foot? Like old school mushroom lifters. A little extra duration. Another approach would be to reduce the base circle diameter of the cam and use longer lifters. More lift.

If this has been discussed, I missed it. But its so crazy, it just might work.

Nothing you have said makes any sense whatsoever in regards to this situation.....and very little in any other other.

You obviously have NO CLUE when you are offering ways to make MORE LIFT!!!!

In the future please READ TWICE....THINK TWICE...POST ONCE.....better still...not at all.
 
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