My first kart/buggy build Ninja 250R motor

[Timtreo]

I'll start a build thread for this project I have going. Just want to start off saying thanks to all who have helped so far on here and for any future help with this project. I'll just post a quick link to where I started after I joined http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17538

Today I pulled the the roll cage off and got the frame into my little workshop and hung it up to be easier to work on. I hung the motor also to be able to spin it around easy to figure the wire harness out. My shop is small and tight and it would be hard to see all sides of the motor on my narrow workbench.

The plan is to use bigheads Odyssey front end with the J arms, steering, suspention, spindles, hubs, and wheels (I think he shipped it today, thanks!)
I cutoff my cheesy steering wheel setup today (left the steering rod/column mount bar until I see the Odyssey steering) I am going to try to clean the whole frame up tomorrow with a wire wheel and sandpaper.

 

[gvfc2]

thats gonna be a sick kart. i wanna ride when its done lol. but dont live anywhere near you

 

[OzFab]

Have a look for some of these:
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...ECIE20S4K7000000_nid=GSW4RV5GC0beRJ5GMFSMV0gl

They work heaps better than a wire wheel & aren't as harsh as a sanding disc. you can get them to fit a drill or a 4" angle grinder

 

[bighead]

Yes I shipped the parts today. I posted a pic below so people can see your front suspension and the main bar. To buy all this parts on ebay would cost you about $250 abouts. This is not counting the main bar from old Ody frame. Add another $40 for plastic steering wheel cover.

Your going to have to cut and grind all the metal from the ody frame. I just sawed it off and sent it to you. This main bar has bend in it. Easy fix though. I would take this bar to the steel yard and ask them for one thats longer. That will give you a wider stance which will make your kart way more stable. If you can't find this same bar then use the one I sent you. You could have one made pretty cheap I would think at machine shop.

(if you grind all the metal of this main bar do not take the stops off or the washer thing that stops the J-arms. You will see when you get them.)

These parts weigh 65lbs. So thats good weight added to the front of your kart to make it handle better. Not to mention rock solid Honda Odyssey built parts. It should handle the power your going to give it bery nice. Best of all is if you damage any parts you can replace them cheap on ebay.

Edit: I take that back friend. After looking at the j-arms and your kart. Your going to have a sick wide stance to this kart. About 6" wider on each side.

It's vidal that you get that bar straight. If not everything will be off. Your also going to want a good fiberglass buggy seat with seat belts.

 

[bighead]

Now for build questions?

Does your karts axle have the keyway slot under where there engines sprocket will be? Or is the keyway the full lenth of the axle? or in spots only?

That hoop bar will come out for sure with the Ody steering. You will weld two bars across the frame to bolt ody steering column to.

I would mount the engine and exhuast in the kart first. Then figure out your axle and swingarm.

With this ody front end you can make the front of the kart a little longer with ease. I would not go any longer than about 6". The last thing you want is a long kart that has wide turning radius. The good thing is the j-arms go back towards to rear. This lets you make more leg and seat room without making the kart longer. Hope I said that right. Basicaly making the kart longer with out making it longer. LOL

If your axle will not work I would buy a 1 1/4 axle setup. Would be sick with this engine.

Any chance you can get the original bike frame to the engine you got? Having the frame would make making your mounts easy like pie.

So many more questions but I will hold off. I know one thing. Your going to have well build front end for gokart.

Here is some pics to show you how the ody column will mount. The last pics shows a custom setup if you have to go there. But first we should try to use the ody setup just like honda used it. If that does not work we can mod it like last pic. If you can find a longer front main bar you can make the front end as short or as wide as you want. That long bar in the pic I will cut down to correct size. It's just a mock up pic.

As you can see to mount the steering column is as easy as angle iron welded in. And then some kind of bar across the frame with hole in it for steering shaft. (look at ody pics below) Then just bolt column to the angle iron. Once you have that bolted in you just slide the steering shaft up the column. Super simple mod. You need to mount engine and seat before you do this stuff though. What ever you bolt the column to it's going to have to be super heavy duty. Lots of force at play here.

This should give you a few days thinking anyway. Remember you want that engine low low and low as you can get it.

I should of cut that cross member part out of the frame that the column bolts to. If you had that part you could use that and fab it into your kart frame. I may need to send you that part. Unless you want to make something.

 

[Timtreo]

Hey thanks Fabroman, there is a place not far from me that sells those. I'll have to try them out.

Bighead thank you again for the great deal. My axle only has a keyway where the spocket is now. I was going to ask about that, can I cut one in without weakening the shaft? Ide like to use the axle I have. I am on a budget with this project, but I don't want to skimp on any safety issues with this big motor going in either. Oh, btw once I got the frame strung up and got a better look at it, that's not a differential on the axle it's just a drum with brake strap type thing on there.
I might be able to get the bike frame, the guys I got it from are kind of a bunch of flakes. I guess they have a motorcycle shop but it's pretty hard to get anyone to answer their phone or e-mails... I asked for a price for the ignition with key and the guages but I haven't heard back from them yet. If I can get a good deal on the rest of the whole bike maybe I'll grab it.
The bike was in a wreck though so I don't know how twisted the frame is. I didn't actually see the bike.
As for the cross member for the column I have some 4"x4" lengths of angle iron I might be able to fab something with. Thanks for all the great pics (I had that same Honda 70 three wheeler (and black lab) when I was a kid). I"ll get a better idea of how it's all going to go together once everything gets here and I can hold it up to the frame. Thanks again bighead!

 

[bighead]

After thinking about it I would go find a 4x4 or 4x2 square tubing. Then cut that square tubing in half the long way. This will give you two crossmembers to weld into your kart.

In the pics is some square tubing I bought at my steel yard. You could cut the top and bottom off the tubing giving you two crossmembers something like Honda used. Flat steel will not work you need something with sides for strenth.

The top would be wide enough for you to cut a hole for the steering shaft to go thru and bolt and rest on. This is like 4x4 but 4x2 would be perfect just cut in half long way.

If you look at the crossmember pic above honda doubled up the steel on the crossmember. Looks close you will see what I am talking about. You want something with no flex for mounting the steering column.

I can still cut that crossmember out and send it to you. You could just weld that into your frame and be done with it.

You kart looks beefy and well made. I like how they did the back end. Looks well made as far as the frame goes.

If you axle does not have the keyway you will need a new axle or a Jack shaft setup. I would spend most your budget on good sprockets and axle. The last thing you want is drive problems for parts that cannot take the power. IMO 1" axle is pushing it for a 250cc ninja engine but I could be wrong. If using the 1" axle I would adda few more bearings to give it some stought. You do not want your axle flexing.

 

[bighead]

Here is the crossmember with out the column. You will have to make something like this with hole in it for column.

 

[Timtreo]

Hey bighead, thanks again for the great pics. What if I welded 2 of the 4X4 angle iron pieces I have together and then cut that in half lengthwise for the cross member?
I got the wire harness figured out last night and I knew I missing something, they didn't give me the starter selenoid relay. I wrote them an e-mail asking for a price on the whole rest of the bike, we'll see if anyone gets back to me... Still waiting for an answer for the prices on things I asked for last week.
So a keyway can not be cut into my axle? More bearings with holders are a good idea and I think I'm going to need a jackshaft anyway or else I would have to tilt the motor way back for the chain to work on a big sprocket that close to the motor(Well maybe, I'll have to figure out exactly how I'm going to mount the motor) . If I used a jack shaft like you suggested I think I would still need a keyway on the left side of the axle because right now that sprocket that's on there is on the wrong side for this motor. Unless I flipped the whole axle around and the keyway would line up with the motor sprocket...

EDIT - I took a closer look today at the axle and there is actually 4 bearings on there now, should be enough? There is one on each side on the next bar in from the end bar.

 

[bighead]

YO! I saw this on pilot ody dot com. Check out how he used the ody steering column. Also how he made the crossmembers. Also how he did his floor. Not sure why he did it that way but it is what it is. You are going to want a seat like this. But you should drop in below the frame rails to get center of gravity lower. I will posy pic on how to do that in next post. You do not want the seat up high. See how it looks dumb and high?

 

[bighead]

Here is how you get the seat low. The bars work as skid pan for the seat. If you did it this way your center of gravity is lots lower.

This is a easy mod and well worth it in a buggy. When you are below the frame rail you feel inside the buggy and not on top.

I have a feeling your engine may have to be on the high side as far as mounting goes. Puting your weight below the rails will be huge. Mix that with wide stance front end you should good. With a buggy seat your going to have much more room to play with. This is why I say get one if you can. Car seats are to heavy and bulky. Unless you find one of the cheap ones they sale at auto parts stores.

These pics show how the seat mounts were made on my blue car. Last pic show how the seat looks sitting on top of the rails. It's just way to high.

Yah you can flip the axle. I just would add bearing right next to the sprocket. Do you a cheap bender?

 

[Timtreo]

Hey bighead, yeah that Oddy seat above is WAY too high. I like what you did with your blue buggy with the seat. Do you have any floor in there or is it just open? I don't have a bender, any suggestion on where to look for a cheap one?

EDIT - Just put a search on CL and there is a bunch of them pretty cheap.I see one that is just a handle with a curve thing at the end, is that all I need or is there another part I need to work with that? I'll try to pick one up this week. I have a wanted ad on there for a bench vise, no bites yet. Dang those things are expensive new!

 

[exenos]

I think what you are describing is a conduit bender, and no it would not work for the type of tubing you will be there using. It's made for small aluminum conduit not steel tubing.

 

[bighead]

I use the cheap harbor frieght bender. About $70 if I remember right.

 

[Timtreo]

I see now, I need one those hydraulic benders.Thanks guys, I'll look around this week for a great deal on one. If I can't find a cheap used one that one from Harbor Freight will work.

 

[Timtreo]

Ok guys I bought the rest of the bike, going to pick it up Wednesay. I can part out what I'm not going to use and make some of my money back. Now I'm thinking could I use the whole frame and turn it around and use the swing arm as part of the rear shock setup, but then how would I get the chain going the right way to drive the axle forward? Jack shafts somehow? Or would that idea look pretty dumb?

 

[tomas02]

My 2 cents on this would be you still want to mount the engine forwards and use one jackshaft instead of multiple, but not as experienced as the others on here.
Love the way your front steering is going to turn out, one mistake I made with mine was having the front too narrow and having poor steering geometry, which makes my kart turn like a boat without power on.

 

[bighead]

Ok guys I bought the rest of the bike, going to pick it up Wednesay. I can part out what I'm not going to use and make some of my money back. Now I'm thinking could I use the whole frame and turn it around and use the swing arm as part of the rear shock setup, but then how would I get the chain going the right way to drive the axle forward? Jack shafts somehow? Or would that idea look pretty dumb?

It's going to be tight fit man. I would just go with simple swingarm and two shocks. Make your kart about 6" longer in the front. Move you seat up 5" and mount your engine. Try to run it with no jack shaft first. Keep it simple. Remember you can make your kart about 6" longer in the front and still have the tires is the same spot the are now. The j-arms go back. Hope I said that right?

Do you research on how to make solid swingarm mounts. I would way over build the swingarm mounts on this kart. Lots of gussets and reinforments.


Post lots of pics of the bike. If the bikes swingarm is steel you may be able to use the bikes swingarm pivot point for your swingarm mounts. If the bikes swingarm is aluminum then scratch that idea. Could also use the bikes front shocks for your rear shocks. There is a build on here now using bike shocks. But yah post lots of pics to get ideas on what to use.

Here you go. Get one running and mod the other. Great platforms.

http://delaware.craigslist.org/mcy/3070340075.html

 

[Timtreo]

Ok thanks guys for the input. I'll see what the swing arm is made of when I get it on Wed., I'm guessing it's probably going to be aluminum. I would like to get the front end mounted up first to see the height and stance and then do the rear to get the frame level. It's going to be higher in the front with that Oddy setup so I'm thinking maybe I can drop the motor down inside the rear end to get the motor weight lower back there and then I may not need a jackshaft to make the chain ride straight to the motor sprocket. The way the sprocket is on the motor the chain has to pretty much run straight back.
Nice find bighead with the 2 Oddys on CL. My wife and I just sold both of our dirtbikes so I'll have to see if she's game to get another buggie so we can both ride.

 

[Timtreo]

Hey bighead, the stuff came already today! I got as far as unpacking the box and almost passed out. It was about 110 degrees out in my little shop today. I'll get into it more tomorrow, it's supposed to be much cooler. Just wanted to say thanks again.