Inheirited an ole Manco 2-seater... any do/don'ts?

[Half-breeder]

After the swap from 1 to 2 seater... I felt that I needed to RE-fab my steering to being more responsive and to close the diameter of my non-sliding turns. I remeasured the Ackermann angle, and cut/welded the arms to 90*... I lost a yard/meter off my turning radius!!! However... when turning FULLY to the right I make contact w/ the frame w/ my tire(possible 3rd emergency braking system?! ). The frame, originally being a 2-seater, was off centered to the left due to there always would be someone on that side. Seeing as that there is nolonger a 'passenger-side', I was going to continue w/ the idea I had awhile back, which would, now, correct my rubbing issue... aswell as beefup the 'last' remaining section that I haven't fused w/ a different kart!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olhD4W1yLSc&feature=youtu.be

 

[Half-breeder]

Bought wife a new smart phone for Christmas... She was kinda bummed lastnite so I let her open it... She in turn let me open one of my presents. She got me a full sized license plate!!! And its labeled "LAT LOD"... to replace the 'toy plate' I have on Lo-T now...

Long story short... She opened up her mail n showed me the 'order reciept' for a 3/4drive, 30 series Comet TAV2!!! Yay.

Questions....
A. Is the driven useable flipped around or do the driven and driver need to be faced the same direction(I have a JS setup, however its not under the motor, it 'extends' out to the driver side wheel)?
B. Gearing... I know/read 6:1 is the 'ideal' ratio... However I was wondering the effect if I geared higher to a 5:1? I know my top speed will be more... But will/would I loose my current response(will I still break traction upon take off)? Mind you... the kart w/ me on it 'may' break 250lbs total.
C. (For those that know my options)If I put my gx200 in replacement of my hf212, there 'shouldnt' be any "difference" in mounting... is there? And would the TC 'replace'(somewhat) the missing lowend of the motor?
D. Just so I know forsure... Does anyone have a link vid of how to install a TC, and a TAV2(2 different vids)?

 

[itsid]

Sorry, because of the asymetric belt, you cannot flipt the driven without constantly ruining your belts (and loosing power)

A. I think 5:1 is good, I know some will not agree
Mathematically even 3.5:1 should work, but the higher you go the more slip you have, thus problems as powerloss, worn belts, slipping clutch etc.

B. It should break traction, don't forget at takeoff it has a 2.7 gear reduction build in (thus you end up in 13.5:1 that's a lot of torque.
But donuts might be a problem, without contact there is merely any resistance and it'll shift up into 0.9:1 internal reduction (and with 4.5:1 I don't think it'll work *shrugs*)

C. No problems, the mounting for both engines is identical as far as I know.
And yes, the tav should take care of missing lowend

D. TAV2 mounting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMIu7hoBjIc

'sid

 

[Half-breeder]

Tyty sid! ... Edit pic posted of the plate above.

 

[Half-breeder]

Sorry, because of the asymetric belt, you cannot flipt the driven without constantly ruining your belts (and loosing power)

A. I think 5:1 is good, I know some will not agree
Mathematically even 3.5:1 should work, but the higher you go the more slip you have, thus problems as powerloss, worn belts, slipping clutch etc.

B. It should break traction, don't forget at takeoff it has a 2.7 gear reduction build in (thus you end up in 13.5:1 that's a lot of torque.
But donuts might be a problem, without contact there is merely any resistance and it'll shift up into 0.9:1 internal reduction (and with 4.5:1 I don't think it'll work *shrugs*)

C. No problems, the mounting for both engines is identical as far as I know.
And yes, the tav should take care of missing lowend

D. TAV2 mounting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMIu7hoBjIc

'sid

So, mathimatcally, if I gear to 5:1, w/ 15'" wheels what should my top speed be... at 3600rpms? I could find out... but i cant remember the math formula to get the top speed.

 

[OzFab]

Did you forget about the speed calculator? Find the top speed @5:1 then add 10% should give you a pretty close estimate

Edit: In this case, somewhere around 35mph

 

[Half-breeder]

Ok... we've concluded that the driven cant be flipped around to use on my 'current' JS(and only when it gets here will I be able to know if itll line up, if 'facing' the proper way... but if it doesnt...)... Seeing as that my current clutch is flipped round... so the sprocket is closest to the motor... and from the pics ive seen, the sprocket fits behind the driven wheel(which would be in the general vicinity/path of the original chain track) on the TAV2... would it be 'reasonable' to say that I can replace the 12T(comes w/ the kit) w/ my 15T and chain to my 'existing' JS in? So my gearing would be TC~>15T->12T(JS in)->12T(JS out)->72T(axle)=4.8ratio.

Yes Im aware id be running, 2 JS's... but my drive sprocket is on the wheel, actually the hub(like a dead axle)... so the 2nd JS(current JS) would just technically an 'extension' rod, parsay.

 

[landuse]

Ok... we've concluded that the driven cant be flipped around to use on my 'current' JS(and only when it gets here will I be able to know if itll line up, if 'facing' the proper way... but if it doesnt...)... Seeing as that my current clutch is flipped round... so the sprocket is closest to the motor... and from the pics ive seen, the sprocket fits behind the driven wheel(which would be in the general vicinity/path of the original chain track) on the TAV2... would it be 'reasonable' to say that I can replace the 12T(comes w/ the kit) w/ my 15T and chain to my 'existing' JS in? So my gearing would be TC~>15T->12T(JS in)->12T(JS out)->72T(axle)=4.8ratio.

Yes Im aware id be running, 2 JS's... but my drive sprocket is on the wheel, actually the hub(like a dead axle)... so the 2nd JS(current JS) would just technically an 'extension' rod, parsay.

Mechanically it should work out fine. Thereare just going to be more working parts to potentially fail, but I would give it a try

 

[Orange Krate]

I removed the ole 'bench' seat n replaced it with one that I put together. Mounting/installing next week after I paint it...

That's pretty goovy!

 

[Half-breeder]

Mechanically it should work out fine. Thereare just going to be more working parts to potentially fail, but I would give it a try

Yea Im hoping the driven will fit well enough on the 'current' JS facing the proper way... that way all I have to do is getta longer belt. Just curious... where would one go to get a longer belt for a comet 30... ya think someplace like pepboys/advanced auto/etc, would carry the proper asymmetric belt? Or is that one of those... 'special' belts?

 

[Half-breeder]

That's pretty goovy!

... yea got tired of the kids round the neighborhood asking for rides and watching their faces drop after I tell them to get their parents written consent, that Im not liable... then when they go in... I drive away. You'd think they would learn after the 2nd-3rd time ... but now most just wave, now that I have 1 seat, and my daughter drives her own Plum purple, 1 seater following behind/leading the way(I told her if I caught someone else on the kart, w/out 'MY' permission... the kart would be gone that night). She'll stop n see what a kid wants when flagged down(its always..."can I drive your go kart?"), but she wont move to get off, but shes not like me, shes been raised to 'speak her mind... but not think, out loud'. She'll just say "no" when asked then drive away w/ her nose up in the air...(she is SOOOOO gonna get her face punched in Jr/HSchool... I can see it already...LMAO).


Another reason was the off CoG and the unsymmetricalness was driving me batty(mild OCD). By moving things in the middle, driving was easier to maneuver/whip around, plus gave it a more 'sporty' look instead of the 'family/share' look that a 2 seater gives me...

 

[Half-breeder]

Here is a closeup view of the fusion of the seat framing to Lo-T...
Seat fusion, closeup view...

Also... would this work... I want to mount my/a bigger tank on my 'current' JShaft mount/plate. I know due to the fact that the HF212 is gravity fed, I know that raising the tank 'above' the carb fuel in line, would work, but does it matter the location... vid shows more...
Fuel tank alternate placement.

Im actually planning on swapping motors when my TC gets here... so the tank will be for the Honda motor.

 

[OzFab]

It matters not how much higher the tank is in relation to the carb, the only difference is the higher the tank, the faster the flow. If you look at most push mowers (& even some riding mowers) the drop on the fuel line is around 1" or less...

As long as the fuel line doesn't run up at any point, you're good to go

Distance is also not a problem; it only means the fuel will take longer to get to the carb but, it will get there...

 

[Half-breeder]

Got the TC in lastnight and started the swap over of motors(Honda -> Lo-T)...

Today I got everything swapped and running... but due to the TC, Im gonna have to relocate the fuel tank anyways... BUT, Im thinking the plan to put one ontop of the JS mount(as planned) is gonna have to be 're-worked' so as that the fuel line isnt so close to the exhaust(heat->melt->fire->BOOM )

I moved the lil tank round... and came up w/ the idea to mount it on the TC cover(for now). Is 'this' idea a bad one?

I got to drive Lo-T up the road once and OMFG!!!! the difference between a cent clutch and a TC(CVT) is like comparing a butter spreader, to a Ninja sword. I kept the 7.5:1 ratio(today), it was AWESOME, just not fast enough on the topend(only got to bout 27mph... gonna try a 4.8:1 ratio tomorrow(bout 40mph). If Im not liking the speed Ill drop back to about a 5.5:1.

 

[firemanjim]

Im still on the fence about the tc/cc swap. I currently run a cc on my black kart. It has great take off and is fun to play, but my daughters 1-wheel peel is good on bottom end,then will leave me behind on the top end..... not cool..... Im supposed to be faster... lol
This was my reason for yanking the gov. on my engine. While its still off though, I have been considering the tc or tav2... Almost bought one from gran-pann but money had to something else..
So, just changing to the tc and nothing else, would you say its worth the bread ,even for just a street/fart around go fast/tear up the streets, kart? I like the fun i have with the low end I got,but i like speed too. I know i CANT have both with a standard kart set up....

 

[Half-breeder]

Im still on the fence about the tc/cc swap. I currently run a cc on my black kart. It has great take off and is fun to play, but my daughters 1-wheel peel is good on bottom end,then will leave me behind on the top end..... not cool..... Im supposed to be faster... lol
This was my reason for yanking the gov. on my engine. While its still off though, I have been considering the tc or tav2... Almost bought one from gran-pann but money had to something else..
So, just changing to the tc and nothing else, would you say its worth the bread ,even for just a street/fart around go fast/tear up the streets, kart? I like the fun i have with the low end I got,but i like speed too. I know i CANT have both with a standard kart set up....

OMG... YES, yep, fursure, nite n day... W/ a TC(according to EVERYTHING/ONE, and mathamatically) any lowend missing, is definitly replaced... and depending your gearing... 10% more(w/ a 6" driven) faster topend, or as ive heard it called... 'overdrive'.

I got mine from BMI for 139$ no ship/tax... TAV2. I got lucky and my sprocket lined up w/ the TAV's. Ill post more vid tomorrow.

 

[firemanjim]

Well, I got tons of break-neck acceleration now. Maybe in the new year ,I will swap to the tav and some wider slicks and up one in height size, for the rear only though. Maybe wider in the front to match the back. Right now ,I have 5" wide slicks. I like the wider look,something like 8" wide.... Im thinking with the wider tires, the tav would/could come in handy....... Ill wait for the video...

 

[Half-breeder]

Well... Christmas was... dont know how to put it w/out sounding like a grinch/scrooge... 'just what I was expecting it to be'... Had both moms, my dad and wife's son extra here. This was my dads first physical viewing of Lo-T, since she was a 'toy' w/ a dead axle(so needless to say he was impressed)... but let me start from hr #1...

Awoke to the sound of the cats fighting(9am), and the first words outta wifes mouth were..."sigh... I dont wanna get up...deep sigh...", so I already knew she wasnt gonna be in a 'holiday' mood... and I wasnt gonna be doing 'guy' things today. Woke daughter up(9:30am), took her awhile to drag out from under the covers, but she finally made it to the tree round 10. After all the presents were opened, I proceeded to 'start' Christmas dinner/luncheon(yes I cook... better than most women... and 'used to' get paid for it......). As I started, wife was helping daughter w/ playing w/ her new toys/things... I eventually found a breaking point and offered my assistance w/ a troublesome set of directions they were having... From my wife I heard, "I got it... I got it!(in the manner of which you would hear from a person you did wrong to...)" ... which in turn... my daughter said to her... "Mommy, you should let daddy help... he knows what he's doing... and plus he didnt have anything to 'open' for presents...(knowing I already 'opened' mine early). That sorta brought a tear to my eye knowing my 11yo daughter was intelligent enough to know when mommy was being a stinjy butt(female dog in heat)... but I keep trailing off the topic...

After dinner/luncheon was through, and everyone ate their desserts, dad n I went out to look/ride Lo-T... now w/ a TC/CVT(but 'still' geared 7.5:1). After my dad saw heard everything... and I 'saw' the yearning in his eyes to ride it... I asked him, "wanna drive it?" Which he replied(this is where I get my humor), "Umm... No!"... as he hopped on her. I gave him the cliffnotes of the workings and set him on his way. He didnt dog her out or even 'push' her... just kinda, putted along like in a parade. He opened it up briefly, then pulled up and said that was enough (think he scared himself alil).

As he got off I hopped on, and attempted to show him the proper way to abuse a kart. On the 3rd pass I heard a 'different' sound comming from the rear of me(as if a pully was comming off its shaft). Suddenly, I hear a loud snap, crackle, pop, clang... ping ping ping... and watch my driver pully/cover/clutch/springs/slide collar, sudden fly past me, as I suddenly slowed down. I pulled over and picked up the pieces/parts(luckily no damage)... put em all back together... locktite red'ed the threads to the driver shaft bolt(which was what came loose) and drove it, 'carefully' a few passes... then I start getting fuel feed issues(fuel in tank... no fuel in filter... motor starves of fuel)... so 'that's' probably tomorrows, 'I dont want to be round you, gonna do something more interesting', project endevor... wont go into the rest of the night.


The performance of the TC vs the cent clutch is completely different. The TC is more variable and smooth... where the cent clutch is immediate and restrictive of variables. The TC seems to cause less of a drag on the motor at all speeds... The TC's clutch seems to 'engage' at a lower rpm... which means that you can literally 'creep' along at 4mph from a dead stop, gradually. Im not sure if it's because of the motors gearing or the gearing of the drive train(TC/sprockets/chains/wheels), but it doesnt 'break loose' upon start like the HF212 w/ cent clutch did. I know the slower I moved the more power was felt(torque), but the response of it wasnt the same. Im gonna try to raise the ratio to 4.8 tomorrow and see how it performs/responds.

 

[Half-breeder]

Wife recorded the ride Christmas(I had forgotten she got a new camera/smart phone)... so I made up this lil vid... it doesnt show much in terms of the TC exploding off of Lo-T... but it shows the pulley rolling cross the ground...
Father rides Lo-T

 

[Half-breeder]

Well, I got tons of break-neck acceleration now. Maybe in the new year ,I will swap to the tav and some wider slicks and up one in height size, for the rear only though. Maybe wider in the front to match the back. Right now ,I have 5" wide slicks. I like the wider look,something like 8" wide.... Im thinking with the wider tires, the tav would/could come in handy....... Ill wait for the video...

Well... I think I know what youre looking for as far as what 'performance' a TC/CVT has... here is your answer in layman terms, IMO... The cent clutch is basically a manual transmissioned means of propulsion, w/ a single set gearing(basically), where as a TC/CVT is an actual variable(more than 1 set gearing) or to coincide w/ the opposite... an automatic transmission. Just like comparing a manual to an automatic... its easier to break traction(burnout), w/ a manual transmission vs an automatic... but youll have a 'smoother' acceleration vs the wiplashing effect you currently probably have... plus(if geared right)... youll go faster than before. The problem w/gearing low/high, w/ big tires is take off torque, when dealing w/ a cent clutch... the TC/CVT compensates for that, plus allows the highend to initiate 'automatically', w/ an overdrive(actually faster than what youd get w/ just the gearing alone).