albersinmas
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i think its good idea
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OFF TOPIC fun forum - NO politics - NO religion - NO jerks. It's not complicated. Thanks!
First Car!! 1982 VW Rabbit Convertible!!!!
- Thread starter j.concepcion54321
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i think its good idea
Well.. my 914 had a D Jetronic (or is it K can't remember??),
the pressure is solely fuel pump pressure (3 bar or 45 psi).
the injectors are very basic (solenoid nozzle)
The moment I swapped to carburators for some extra horses pulling my drivetrain, I had to swap the fuel pump to a low pressure pump. (0.4 bar or 6psi)
But yes, if you define pressure by restriction of flow, true,
it's the injector nozzles..
Still, the fuel pump is the part that creates the force acting on the nozzle area in the first place. P= F/A
And you cannot run a D jet fuel injection system with a low pressure pump from a carb engine or the other way around.
'sid
fowler
New member
yes thats what im saying
to put it simply but incorrectly
the pump creates pressure
so u cant just gravity feed the system unless u get a few thousand litres and hang it a few metres up to get 45psi of head pressure
the more modern the engine the higher the pressure
it is purely presure pushing the fuel in
once u go direct injection and try to get good emissions by having a few injections each cycle then u gotta get the fuel moving very fast
then u get common rail
the new systems are hitting 20 000 psi
with pezo crystal injectors activated by 40 000 volts
with 5 pulses during combustion
its all starting to get out of the range of backyard mechanics
to put it simply but incorrectly
the pump creates pressure
so u cant just gravity feed the system unless u get a few thousand litres and hang it a few metres up to get 45psi of head pressure
the more modern the engine the higher the pressure
it is purely presure pushing the fuel in
once u go direct injection and try to get good emissions by having a few injections each cycle then u gotta get the fuel moving very fast
then u get common rail
the new systems are hitting 20 000 psi
with pezo crystal injectors activated by 40 000 volts
with 5 pulses during combustion
its all starting to get out of the range of backyard mechanics
OzFab
Well-known member
j.concepcion54321
Rebuilding KTM, Need Kart
So after i changed out all the fuses im kinda worried.... Before i did the swap the horn, blinkers, and wipers all worked. Now they don't...... I replaced all the same fuses so im not sure. Where i saw red i put red, where i saw white i put white, where i saw blue i put blue.
One thing i did notice now is there seems to be a blue wire just hanging around. Im not sure if this was like that before, or if it disconnected while i was moving the fuse block around, etc. In the pics its that blue wire at the bottom. I dont think it was connected to any of the actual fuses in that first pic. Just the angle of the shot makes it look like it was.
Any ideeas where that cable goes to?
Quick Note:
Take a look at this link and compare it to my engine pics. Im pretty sure its a 1.6l, but in the trunk of the car where it has the engine code stamped it says EN which i looked online and corresponds with a 1.7l.................................................
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/jettncab/Cabby Parts/CabbyInfo/Differences.png
One thing i did notice now is there seems to be a blue wire just hanging around. Im not sure if this was like that before, or if it disconnected while i was moving the fuse block around, etc. In the pics its that blue wire at the bottom. I dont think it was connected to any of the actual fuses in that first pic. Just the angle of the shot makes it look like it was.
Any ideeas where that cable goes to?
Quick Note:
Take a look at this link and compare it to my engine pics. Im pretty sure its a 1.6l, but in the trunk of the car where it has the engine code stamped it says EN which i looked online and corresponds with a 1.7l.................................................
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/jettncab/Cabby Parts/CabbyInfo/Differences.png
Attachments
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IMAG0598.jpg -
IMAG0599.jpg
Poboy kartman
Senior Moments Member
Have you looked in the Haynes manual to see where the fuses for those things are located? That would be step one.......
j.concepcion54321
Rebuilding KTM, Need Kart
Theres a cabrio section, but it doesnt go back to my year. And the rabbit section covers the right year, but theres no fuse block diagrams.
well, let's start with the engine.. it's easy.. if it's EN motorcode, it's a 1.7l for sure!
The thing is, the coolant hose flange can be either taken from a 1.6l by a PO, or it simply is due to the fact that the engine you have is the 77HP not the 80HP (canadian) version.
Also, that might have changed at a certain year, or at a specific model;
I don't know.
But what I do know is, that if it truely is EN it truely is 1.7l
Now for the fuse..
that should be Fuse #7, correct?
if so it's responsible for
the interior light, the clock, cigarette lighter, trunk light & radio (8Amps btw)
if your car is from 10/80 or later the radio went to fuse #6 (still 8Amps)
if one of those things isn't working, that's what the blue cable patched earlier
(that should NOT be there.. PO put it there for some reason)
Now for the bad news.. a 1982 model shouldn't have those torpedo fuses AT ALL!
This is the fuse box of a 1982 Golf MkI Cabriolet:
see the difference?
torpedo fuse color codes are
yellow : 5 Amps
white : 8 Amps
red : 16 Amps
blue : 25 Amps and
grey : 40 Amps
And the 15 fuses should be
you'll find three extra fuses, not in said line,
Aircondition 25 Amps
Fog lights 8 Amps
Fuel Pump 16 Amps
aircondition and foglight fuses are optional
short list, many fuses serve more than just one purpose,
but you get the idea.
'sid
PS fusetable by:
http://www.golfcabriowiki.de/index....cherungstabelle_Golf_I_Cabrio_.28Sicherung.29
The thing is, the coolant hose flange can be either taken from a 1.6l by a PO, or it simply is due to the fact that the engine you have is the 77HP not the 80HP (canadian) version.
Also, that might have changed at a certain year, or at a specific model;
I don't know.
But what I do know is, that if it truely is EN it truely is 1.7l
Now for the fuse..
that should be Fuse #7, correct?
if so it's responsible for
the interior light, the clock, cigarette lighter, trunk light & radio (8Amps btw)
if your car is from 10/80 or later the radio went to fuse #6 (still 8Amps)
if one of those things isn't working, that's what the blue cable patched earlier
(that should NOT be there.. PO put it there for some reason)
Now for the bad news.. a 1982 model shouldn't have those torpedo fuses AT ALL!
This is the fuse box of a 1982 Golf MkI Cabriolet:
see the difference?
torpedo fuse color codes are
yellow : 5 Amps
white : 8 Amps
red : 16 Amps
blue : 25 Amps and
grey : 40 Amps
And the 15 fuses should be
Code:
LEFT
#1 8 Amps driving light left
#2 8 driving light right
#3 8 high beam left (+indicator)
#4 8 high beam right
#5 16 Amps heated rear window
#6 8 Amps break light
#7 8 interior light
#8 8 direction indicators
#9 8 horn and engine this and that
#10 16 Amps ventilation (interior)
#11 8 Amps wiper motor
#12 8 licence plate light
#13 8 rear light left
#14 8 rear light right
#15 25 Amps cooling fan and thermoswitch (engine)
RIGHTAircondition 25 Amps
Fog lights 8 Amps
Fuel Pump 16 Amps
aircondition and foglight fuses are optional
short list, many fuses serve more than just one purpose,
but you get the idea.
'sid
PS fusetable by:
http://www.golfcabriowiki.de/index....cherungstabelle_Golf_I_Cabrio_.28Sicherung.29
j.concepcion54321
Rebuilding KTM, Need Kart
Thanks for that info, i replaced the fuses pretty much in that order. I went by what was originally on it though. MY only question is, do you think that that blue wire had something to do with why my horn and blinkers aren't working now? Could it be that my battery isnt putting out enough juice? I doubt it though cause i can still crank the engine for a while and all other lights work. Even before when i used a battery that didnt have enough cranking amps the wipers and blinkers worked.
Just saw this... Its some recall's and defects from the 82 rabbit convertible... Surprise surprise it has to do with the fuel pump!!!! It's gonna get replaced this week though so after that ill see if the problems persist; If so ill look further into this
Just saw this... Its some recall's and defects from the 82 rabbit convertible... Surprise surprise it has to do with the fuel pump!!!! It's gonna get replaced this week though so after that ill see if the problems persist; If so ill look further into this
Attachments
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RECALL.jpg
OzFab
Well-known member
Just my 2 cents worth:
Concentrate on the mechanical & worry about the electrical later. I mean, does it really matter if the blinkers & horn dont work if the car doesn't run? Pick your battles...
Concentrate on the mechanical & worry about the electrical later. I mean, does it really matter if the blinkers & horn dont work if the car doesn't run? Pick your battles...
yes, it will have to do with something not working correctly.
horn and blinkers are not on the same fuse though...
neither #6 nor #7
#6 is brake lights and warning lights (blinker..)
horn would be #9 (twin tone additionally #11)
it looks like someone clipped a cable by accident and I'm afraid it was just attached "somewhere".
You'll have to find out where the other end is connected to, and if it's part of the original harness or a PO add-on
electrics can be a huge PITA if someone messed with it...
It's the cable that causes this for sure (98%)
your battery will be fine.
wipers? you're wipers aren't working too?
wiper motor and pump both connect to #11 as well as the twin tone horn.
so the blue cable should connect to #11 most likely.
But I'm not sure about the position;
you'll have to remove the fuse box, and check if one part is still connected to the harness;
the cable must be on the other end, otherwise you will have NO fuse
(it'll work until it wants to blow the fuse, then it's going to burn a wire and you're screwed)
So take care, check the Haynes frequently, try to find a wiring diagram colored or color coded, make sure you know what goes where.
this is critical if you don't want to risk a fatal electric failure.
If in doubt, get yourself a multimeter (can be a cheap one) croc clamps preferred.
then test, connect a wire and flick a switch until you know what it does (the wire, not the switch )
the german wiring diagram can be found here:
(high res images... that's why they're linked)
see post #74
the only blue cables in there isn't even connected to ANY fuse but the generator and tachometer
Be sure to check, that the fuses are numbered left to right, not right to left (they are on some cars for unknown reason)
I can't recall how it's done in a Golf... it's almost twenty years ago since I last sat in one, so please do not rely on just my memory
Talked to my friend just the other day (the one who actually owned such golf cabrio)
No repair manual unfortunately (two left hands.. all thumbs he said - he's a brain surgeon btw
)
I'll see if there's one in the local library next week.
'sid
horn and blinkers are not on the same fuse though...
neither #6 nor #7
#6 is brake lights and warning lights (blinker..)
horn would be #9 (twin tone additionally #11)
it looks like someone clipped a cable by accident and I'm afraid it was just attached "somewhere".
You'll have to find out where the other end is connected to, and if it's part of the original harness or a PO add-on
electrics can be a huge PITA if someone messed with it...
It's the cable that causes this for sure (98%)
your battery will be fine.
wipers? you're wipers aren't working too?
wiper motor and pump both connect to #11 as well as the twin tone horn.
so the blue cable should connect to #11 most likely.
But I'm not sure about the position;
you'll have to remove the fuse box, and check if one part is still connected to the harness;
the cable must be on the other end, otherwise you will have NO fuse
(it'll work until it wants to blow the fuse, then it's going to burn a wire and you're screwed
)So take care, check the Haynes frequently, try to find a wiring diagram colored or color coded, make sure you know what goes where.
this is critical if you don't want to risk a fatal electric failure.
If in doubt, get yourself a multimeter (can be a cheap one) croc clamps preferred.
then test, connect a wire and flick a switch until you know what it does (the wire, not the switch )
the german wiring diagram can be found here:
(high res images... that's why they're linked)
see post #74
the only blue cables in there isn't even connected to ANY fuse but the generator and tachometer
Be sure to check, that the fuses are numbered left to right, not right to left (they are on some cars for unknown reason)
I can't recall how it's done in a Golf... it's almost twenty years ago since I last sat in one, so please do not rely on just my memory
Talked to my friend just the other day (the one who actually owned such golf cabrio)
No repair manual unfortunately (two left hands.. all thumbs he said - he's a brain surgeon btw
)I'll see if there's one in the local library next week.
'sid
j.concepcion54321
Rebuilding KTM, Need Kart
I figured if something worked before and now doesnt, then i have electrical problems. If these electrical problems get back to the fuel pump then ill have changed it out and could still be stuck in the same spot. I wanted to try and diagnose these problems as it wouldnt cost me any money to do so. Also i can work on them from inside the car and as far as overall progress for my build goes its not that significant.
Technically since im using this for my senior project the work has to be photographed, with some aid from my mentor, and in a professional setting. So when i go to do the fuel pump im gonna do it with him since its a crucial part, along with the brakes, the top, etc.
j.concepcion54321
Rebuilding KTM, Need Kart
yes, it will have to do with something not working correctly.
horn and blinkers are not on the same fuse though...
neither #6 nor #7
#6 is brake lights and warning lights (blinker..)
horn would be #9 (twin tone additionally #11)
it looks like someone clipped a cable by accident and I'm afraid it was just attached "somewhere".
You'll have to find out where the other end is connected to, and if it's part of the original harness or a PO add-on
electrics can be a huge PITA if someone messed with it...
It's the cable that causes this for sure (98%)
your battery will be fine.
wipers? you're wipers aren't working too?
wiper motor and pump both connect to #11 as well as the twin tone horn.
so the blue cable should connect to #11 most likely.
But I'm not sure about the position;
you'll have to remove the fuse box, and check if one part is still connected to the harness;
the cable must be on the other end, otherwise you will have NO fuse
(it'll work until it wants to blow the fuse, then it's going to burn a wire and you're screwed
So take care, check the Haynes frequently, try to find a wiring diagram colored or color coded, make sure you know what goes where.
this is critical if you don't want to risk a fatal electric failure.
If in doubt, get yourself a multimeter (can be a cheap one) croc clamps preferred.
then test, connect a wire and flick a switch until you know what it does (the wire, not the switch )
the german wiring diagram can be found here:
(high res images... that's why they're linked)
part 1
http://www.golfcabriowiki.de/images/c/cb/Slp-g1c-gl-81-t1g.jpg
part 2
http://www.golfcabriowiki.de/images/f/ff/Slp-g1c-gl-81-t2g.jpg
the only blue cables in there isn't even connected to ANY fuse but the generator and tachometer
If I'm right (old fusebox.. == earlier than 1982)
that's the wiring diagram, I can't tell you what's different on first sight, but better save than sorry:
http://www.golfcabriowiki.de/images/c/c1/Slp-g1c-gls-1.jpg
http://www.golfcabriowiki.de/images/1/18/Slp-g1c-gls-2.jpg
still no blue wire connected to any fuse though
Be sure to check, that the fuses are numbered left to right, not right to left (they are on some cars for unknown reason)
I can't recall how it's done in a Golf... it's almost twenty years ago since I last sat in one, so please do not rely on just my memory
Talked to my friend just the other day (the one who actually owned such golf cabrio)
No repair manual unfortunately (two left hands.. all thumbs he said - he's a brain surgeon btw
I'll see if there's one in the local library next week.
'sid
Thanks for all the help, i wish i had more photos of the mess before hand! I wanna get back out and take a more detailed look at everything, but now we got another storm and im gonna wake up tomorrow morning to anywhere from 8 to 10 inches of snow covering the rabbit
on your last picture the red fuse on the upper right corner is the one for the fuel pump.
the relais right beneath it also controls the fuel pump.
So if you think about an electrical problem with the fuel pump, check those first.
And know what.. the wiring diagrams above do not cover the fuel injection (just carb engines)
the only one with fuel injection would be this one:
http://www.golfcabriowiki.de/images/1/14/Slp-g1-gti-g1c-gli-1.jpg
http://www.golfcabriowiki.de/images/6/66/Slp-g1-gti-g1c-gli-2.jpg
Sorry, I should have checked that earlier...
(links above removed to prevent confusion)
we're here to help!
Yes, detailed photos are nice, but with electrics even those cannot replace a multimeter
'sid
the relais right beneath it also controls the fuel pump.
So if you think about an electrical problem with the fuel pump, check those first.
And know what.. the wiring diagrams above do not cover the fuel injection (just carb engines)
the only one with fuel injection would be this one:
http://www.golfcabriowiki.de/images/1/14/Slp-g1-gti-g1c-gli-1.jpg
http://www.golfcabriowiki.de/images/6/66/Slp-g1-gti-g1c-gli-2.jpg
Sorry, I should have checked that earlier...
(links above removed to prevent confusion)
You're very welcome..Thanks for all the help, i wish i had more photos of the mess before hand! I wanna get back out and take a more detailed look at everything, but now we got another storm and im gonna wake up tomorrow morning to anywhere from 8 to 10 inches of snow covering the rabbit
we're here to help!
Yes, detailed photos are nice, but with electrics even those cannot replace a multimeter
'sid
OzFab
Well-known member
Very true but, it's a simple test to figure whether the fuel pump problem is the pump or the wiring: with the ignition on, you should have power at the pump electrical connector; if so, you're good to go; if not, then you have an issue...
j.concepcion54321
Rebuilding KTM, Need Kart
Ok so i was working on it today, i found the source of the blue wire! It appears to have been snapped up near the top so i connected that the way it should be.
I worked around with the fuses for a while and put them according to how the diagram shows, not how they were before and played around with them and i was able to get the wipers, horn, and blinkers all working........ only temporarily though. After a while the blinkers would stop working. SO i would go back down and mess around with the fuses to see if that would get them to work, and then one thing would work and something else wouldnt. This happened for over an hour when i just gave up and at the end of the day in back to square one without horn, blinker, or wipers.
I purchased a tester and it lights up if there is power and at first i tested them all and the 3,4 and 5 one didnt work. THis is probably why my driver side headlight doesnt work, or my high beams. I unplugged one of the conenctors in the back and it look pretty orange and corroded. So im not sure what to do there to clean that up? Maybe thats what's causing my short?
Also gonna try and talk my dad into ordering the fuel pump, air intake tube, and rear brake pads. Will let you know how that goes in a little bit.
EDIT: I also made an interesting discovery... the engine has 1.6 stamped right on it. The numbers on the engine dont even match the ones on the intake.... ill throw up some pictures in a little bit.
I worked around with the fuses for a while and put them according to how the diagram shows, not how they were before and played around with them and i was able to get the wipers, horn, and blinkers all working........ only temporarily though. After a while the blinkers would stop working. SO i would go back down and mess around with the fuses to see if that would get them to work, and then one thing would work and something else wouldnt. This happened for over an hour when i just gave up and at the end of the day in back to square one without horn, blinker, or wipers.
I purchased a tester and it lights up if there is power and at first i tested them all and the 3,4 and 5 one didnt work. THis is probably why my driver side headlight doesnt work, or my high beams. I unplugged one of the conenctors in the back and it look pretty orange and corroded. So im not sure what to do there to clean that up? Maybe thats what's causing my short?
Also gonna try and talk my dad into ordering the fuel pump, air intake tube, and rear brake pads. Will let you know how that goes in a little bit.
EDIT: I also made an interesting discovery... the engine has 1.6 stamped right on it. The numbers on the engine dont even match the ones on the intake.... ill throw up some pictures in a little bit.
j.concepcion54321
Rebuilding KTM, Need Kart
some pics of the wiring and the connector in question. Did a little searching and found that the connector goes to the front wiring harness.
Attachments
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photo 1.jpg -
photo 2.jpg -
photo 3.jpg -
photo 4.jpg -
photo 5.jpg
OzFab
Well-known member
I would say so, rust is not a good conductor
There should be a way to remove the wires/connectors from the block to clean them; try steel wool, light sanding or, worst case scenario, a small file to clean the contacts...
Here's a tip: Remove & clean one connector at a time; this will prevent mass confusion trying to figure out in what order the 16 wires go...
Just a heads up: looking at that connector & the pics of the fuse board itself, you may want to start looking for a replacement; chances are, if the connector is rusted, the board contacts will be too...
fowler
New member
Two products made my a company called CRC
CO 2 cleaner will eat most corrosion
Or lecta clean is a stronger version
But it'll eat trim plastic
If u have heavy corrosion everywhere then good luck
Once u get green death in the wires and connectors it's just a tail chaseing game
May want to get some electrical grease to put in the connectors
It's common on 4x4s but cars never seem to have it
It just seals out moisture
CO 2 cleaner will eat most corrosion
Or lecta clean is a stronger version
But it'll eat trim plastic
If u have heavy corrosion everywhere then good luck
Once u get green death in the wires and connectors it's just a tail chaseing game
May want to get some electrical grease to put in the connectors
It's common on 4x4s but cars never seem to have it
It just seals out moisture
j.concepcion54321
Rebuilding KTM, Need Kart
Thanks for the replies. After i get them cleaned up i hope im ok. The moisture got in because the car had been pretty much left to die. Hopefully after i put the new top on and fix her up there wont be any more water or moisture getting into the car
Regardless im gonna look into those cleaners. I wish there was something that i could just spray right in but like you said itd probably eat the plastic... Guess i just gotta be real patient and wait for a day when the weather aint so bad. -___-
OH, but i did get the fuel pump ordered should be here over the weekend or on monday.....
Regardless im gonna look into those cleaners. I wish there was something that i could just spray right in but like you said itd probably eat the plastic... Guess i just gotta be real patient and wait for a day when the weather aint so bad. -___-
OH, but i did get the fuel pump ordered
should be here over the weekend or on monday.....- Status