Ed's "Black-Terror of Death"! ....mobile?

[jr dragster T]

Also known as duct tape....

 

[Jerryburger]

Question:
I'm going to use the4 chain case/output shaft for this project as you all know- but how to get those wheels and track-drive sprocket off of there is going to be a messy challenge. The round wheels are held on by collars, and it appears the track-drive thing is welded on. Short of butchering it.... any ideas?

 

[jr dragster T]

The Bogey wheels and drive cog must come off with setscrews and keys somehow?

 

[Jerryburger]

Thanks for the info. You're right. The bogey's are on bearings and they've got collars on each side of them, but that drive cog is welded on, I believe. Yup- it has a small bead welded around it's base to the shaft... I'm thinking if I take the angle grinder to it, I should be able to pop it loose.
In the picture above, where the closest bogey wheel is, is where I'm going to attach the new drive sprocket for the rear chain. The others drive and far bogey could remain, but I'd rather get them off of there to "clean it up" a bit.

 

[jr dragster T]

This is what I'd do. Remove the bogey's, Get a couple of good cutting wheels and gut the drive cog very close to the shaft but do not cut into the shaft. Then I would remove the cog or whatever is left of it and grind/cut the rest of the small portion of the cog. After all that polish up the axle with a sand flapper wheel in your angle grinder to get rid of all the burns and nicks.

 

[Jerryburger]

Yeah- good idea. It's the 1st step towards figuring out where I'm going to lay everything else's positions from.

 

[Jerryburger]

Made some progress, (no pix yet).... I "cleaned up" the output shaft by hacking away at it with an angle grinder (4hours of work!) and put together the mount that I'm going to weld to the swingarm and bolt the chain case to. Got the pillow-block bearing from ebay, and so now it's time to mount the thing on there.
Mocking THIS stuff up is a PITA, because it's one heck of a lot heavier than the Sachs engine/Lowrider Project stuff!

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

Looks good, i like the engine. That chaincase looks like it came off an old polaris from around 1977. Me and a friend almost took the engine out of the same sled for a go kart, but it needed a rebuild and it was a only 295, but the secondary/gearbox look the exact same.

 

[Jerryburger]

Looks good, i like the engine. That chaincase looks like it came off an old polaris from around 1977. Me and a friend almost took the engine out of the same sled for a go kart, but it needed a rebuild and it was a only 295, but the secondary/gearbox look the exact same.

FUNNY you should mention that!..... Do you have any more info on that sled, like what model is it, etc.? Ed's motor has precious little info on it, and I have for my own use, one of those 295 motors (which looks like a 440 "Mini-Me"). We thought it was a TXL, but from what I understand the "L" in TXL means that it's liquid cooled (?) Then, almost EVERY TX 295 motor I've seen is a "Free Air" motor (no fan, just bigger fins). Thankfully I got the one with the fan.
The fact that it's a 295 won't deter me from using it; my Sachs SA 290 actually does/did pretty good (gotta somehow fix the points on it).

Either way- for such a popular brand and model line of engines, these Polaris/Fuji motors are pretty tough to get specs on. All I know is that the clutch says, "Do not exceed 7500 rpm"

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

FUNNY you should mention that!..... Do you have any more info on that sled, like what model is it, etc.? Ed's motor has precious little info on it, and I have for my own use, one of those 295 motors (which looks like a 440 "Mini-Me"). We thought it was a TXL, but from what I understand the "L" in TXL means that it's liquid cooled (?) Then, almost EVERY TX 295 motor I've seen is a "Free Air" motor (no fan, just bigger fins). Thankfully I got the one with the fan.
The fact that it's a 295 won't deter me from using it; my Sachs SA 290 actually does/did pretty good (gotta somehow fix the points on it).

Either way- for such a popular brand and model line of engines, these Polaris/Fuji motors are pretty tough to get specs on. All I know is that the clutch says, "Do not exceed 7500 rpm"

I have no idea of the model, but i know it was a 295 that had a base that was capable of handling 440 cylinders and heads, it was air cooled no fans. Its sitting in my friends yard, i'll have to see what it is next time im over there. The sled was a faded yellow or white with a little blue? (i think) and a black seat. The guy who owned it till he blew a hole through the cylinder said it would smoke his friends 440's and was a great sled, he also said the reason he blew a hole in the cylinder was because of having a bad set of points. I googled the polaris tx and it looks a lot like the one i saw, but my memory is a bit foggy. Also the engine you have looks a little different, it looks newer, the recoil was smaller and there were no guards over the cylinder, that may just be because its bigger.

 

[Jerryburger]

BRIEF UPDATE.....

Finished work on the chain-case shaft and mounted the chain-case to the frame. (End of shaft still hanging until I fab the mount for it's bearing.) Ordered the 10t #530 sprocket for it. Started "boxing in and "solidifying" the rear swingarm. Once the small sprocket and pillow block are mounted, I can then turn my attention to the motor mount.

I eliminated the rear shocks, and I'm using their old mounting points on the frame to weld supports. (This will all get a "final beefing-up" after everything has been tack-welded into place.)
A couple of things.... it's hard to find a decent reference point (besides the rear axle) because not everything is straight and true. AND... the braces that I'm using are 1x1" x .120 wall tubing, which is proving to be pretty beefy. Even with just the tack-welds, we (a few of us) climbed on the kart and started jumping up and down to see if anything would work loose. So far so good.

 

[newrider3]

Good work. But honestly, with that much power and no rear suspension, it's going to be a **** ride.

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

Looks good, Howcome you decided to use the sleds chain case and not just mount the primary on a homemade jackshaft? the way you did it seems more complicated. The motor mounts should be fairly easy. How did you calculate the gear ratios for the CVT? do you have any idea what the max/min ratios are for the average sled CVT?

 

[Jerryburger]

Good work. But honestly, with that much power and no rear suspension, it's going to be a **** ride.

Exactly (Heh-heh.) what we're after. We plan on replacing the front shocks with the rears (a bit stiffer), and relying on the spongy-wheels (like a stinking waterbed) in back for a slight amount of cushion/travel.) Most of the stuff out here is pretty flat, and after Ed's 1st few attempts at jumping this thing (earlier in thread) we've learned this thing flies okay- doesn't do so well on landing!

Looks good, Howcome you decided to use the sleds chain case and not just mount the primary on a homemade jackshaft? the way you did it seems more complicated. The motor mounts should be fairly easy. How did you calculate the gear ratios for the CVT? do you have any idea what the max/min ratios are for the average sled CVT?

Ooops I forgot to let you in on the Grand Design.... It's the stock 440 motor/clutch/secondary/chaincase combo from the sled, but instead of the track wheel thingy, it's going to have a 10T sprocket, driving the rear axles 31T sprocket (3.1>1 ratio.) This will give a low ratio of 20.6>1 and high ratio of 8.25>1.... which should work okay with the 22" wheels.

Ummmmm okay- here goes. Ed's project started BEFORE the Lowrider project. Once I figured that I knew NOTHING about sleds/sled motors, I told Ed that I would cut my teeth on the LowRider, and then use the knowledge I gained on his kart.
1.) These older F/C motors generally have an engagement rpm of 3000 rpm.
2.) Most of these old sled converters start out with a minimum ratio of 2.5>1, and as rpm increases, it'll adavance to a 1>1 ratio. (Some or most sled converters can have an even wider spread of ratios, but I use these figures as conservative estimates.)
3.) Ed's Black Terror has a relatively small 31T #530 sprocket welded to the sold rear axle- so I have to use it.
To make all this work- I figured out what Polaris had done, as far as gearing for their sled, and then tried to mimic the final drive ratios for Ed's kart, except with shorter overall ratios. (Ed's kart is a lot heavier than a sled.)
4.) The Polaris had a 2.66>1 reduction in the chaincase and 9" diameter drive-wheel-sprocket-thingy... which means the sled:
a.)..at low ratio (2.5>1 belt x 2.66>1 chain) ran 12 mph at it's engagement speed of 3000 rpm. The only way I could come close to that ratio with Ed's 22"dia wheels and 31T sprocket was to use the chaincase as part of the reduction. It also ended up being a convenient way to mount the secondary, as Polaris intended! As it turns out, Ed's will do 9mph at 3000 rpm engagement.
b.).... when the converter starts to it's "high" ratio at about 6000 rpm, the Polaris sled was doing about 24 mph.... Ed's will be doing about 18 mph.
c.).... at 7500 rpm (the Polaris clutch maximum safe speed) in it's highest ratio, the sled was doing 75 mph. Ed's will be doing right at 60.

This all based off of the original parts/pieces from the sled. Most of these converters can have a range of 2.7>1 all the way to an overdrive of .8>1.... that's why I go conservative with the 2.5>1 and 1>1, just to cover my butt.

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

Sounds like you did your research. I'm going to have to look back on this thread once i attempt my build (if). Is his kart really heavier than the sled the engine came from? My 750 is like 700lbs, i can barely lift the front end, it takes all my strength to get it about 5 inches off the ground and it doesnt have gas/seat/coolant/oil/clutches/ or the pipes on it.

 

[Jerryburger]

I hope you do your build too. These things are a lot of fun when they run. Ed said his kart was 600 lbs. It is pretty massive, and I'm thinking with the motor, it'll have at least 200 lbs more than the sled. Ed's kart is also a two-seater with luggage rack, so I figure it'd be safest to err on the side of ensuring it has "starting out power". I asked him if he'd be fine with a 60mph top speed, and he was okay with it.

I got the new drive sprocket tonight, so tomorrow I'll see what I can get accomplished.

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

Wow thats one heavy kart... The one im using will be pretty light. Its just a yardkart that i can pick up easily. It will be a while before i start. I have two sleds to part out, a chainsaw bike, and a dirtbike to finish before i start. Ill be sure to start a thread when i do though.

 

[modelengineer]

600 lbs? That's how much my sidey will weigh. I had no idea yours was that heavy, it looks lighter.

 

[newrider3]

Those chinese karts have a lot of extra tubing.

 

[Jerryburger]

No clue if it really is 600 lbs. I'm a weakling, and I can pick up the front or back to move it around/tilt it. etc.....
Ed got that figure for the shipping order, so maybe it included the weight of the crating.

Those chinese karts have a lot of extra tubing.

Geez, no kidding. If I were to hack everything non-structural off of this kart (including the roll cage (heh-heh) I can't imagine the weight savings, and it'd probably look cool as heck. BUT...it's not my kart, and Ed wants as much of it as possible to be preserved.