DIY Frame or Ready Built

[fresh101]

Hello Everyone, I am new to this kind of forums. Well I am on the road of purchasing or making my first kart. With that in mind, I do like speed and like the idea of people using sportbike engine on them by extending shifter karts. I want to start with something simple for my kids and I, to get a feel on how go karts things work and be familiar with parts but yet be able to upgrade in the future to a more stronger engine and setup. I do like and prefer the begining point to be with electric motor as they are quieter and also offer speed aswell. I would like using a D&D Motor ES-33 or D&D Motor ES-67A-29 capable of doing some serious speed but again I want something with less power for my kids to enjoy but able to grow with it.

Should I build my own frame or should I do similar to other people buy a chassis and if needed extend the rear to fit bigger engine?

Thanks in advance

 

[souperman000]

First off, Welcome to the forum!

I think that if you start with electric motors, it would be hard to upgrade to gas engines. Different mounting, different components, etc

My advice would be to start with a 5hp gas engine and then do the swap for a bike engine. That will give you a better "feel on how go karts things work and be familiar with parts" as you put it.

For your first kart, It would probably be easier to buy a pre made frame of fixer-upper kart. Try your local craigslist (or whatever you have wherever you live).

That being said, I do not know your fabrication abilities, so that is for you to decide.

 

[landuse]

Welcome

 

[fresh101]

First off, Welcome to the forum!

I think that if you start with electric motors, it would be hard to upgrade to gas engines. Different mounting, different components, etc

My advice would be to start with a 5hp gas engine and then do the swap for a bike engine. That will give you a better "feel on how go karts things work and be familiar with parts" as you put it.

For your first kart, It would probably be easier to buy a pre made frame of fixer-upper kart. Try your local craigslist (or whatever you have wherever you live).

That being said, I do not know your fabrication abilities, so that is for you to decide.

Thanks for the help.

I have located a frame in the local craigs for $450 with axle and other components like brakes and etc and now i am wondering if the kart is normally build to something specific like gas engine or electric? or it doesn't matter as all engine can be use in any kart? Thanks in advance.

 

[ghostdog]

The main challenge is getting your clutch/torque converter in position with the axle.

If your axle isn't a keyed axle it is a lot more crucial to make sure your motor is mounted at the right spot. If you plan on using a jackshaft it typically can offer you more room for error in lining up your clutch/torque converter to the axle.

By all means check for a used frame available. You can usually get them much cheaper plus save on freight and most importantly fabrication time.

 

[fresh101]

The main challenge is getting your clutch/torque converter in position with the axle.

If your axle isn't a keyed axle it is a lot more crucial to make sure your motor is mounted at the right spot. If you plan on using a jackshaft it typically can offer you more room for error in lining up your clutch/torque converter to the axle.

By all means check for a used frame available. You can usually get them much cheaper plus save on freight and most importantly fabrication time.

Ok thank for the response but I kinda did not understand what was said above. The frame that I am planing on buying has the axle set already. My question is, don't I need to work around whatever is there? For example, I will need to fabricate a electric motor mount aligned to the rear axle sprocket? Is that pretty much what you are saying above?

 

[fresh101]

Hello everyone, today I found a brand new Birel full class chassis for $125 is this a good buy or thats what it goes for? Thanks in advance

32mm tube frame and i think it's 70+" long

 

[r_chez_08]

Sounds great, brand new! Old complete good condition race karts go for $500-1500 depending on factors. New are $1500+ complete
Frame only right???

 

[fresh101]

Sounds great, brand new! Old complete good condition race karts go for $500-1500 depending on factors. New are $1500+ complete
Frame only right???

Yes frame only.

I went to buy the frame today and in fact I ended buying 2 chassis, one for kids. I am going to start building the kids kart as electrical. I need to know where can I buy a matching sprocket for this motor considering it has a 11t sprocket on it and 40mm axle.

>>> Currie Tech motor w/ Controller <<<

I would also like a site where I can buy new parts from Birel or Freeline, like cassettes, pedals, brake kit, and bearings for the 40mm axle.

Thanks in advance

 

[anderkart]

The electric motor in that kit comes with an 11-tooth drive gear made to fit the small #25 chain pitch. So first you'll need to buy a new drive gear made for the larger #35 chain commonly used on racekarts like yours with 40mm. axles.

Here's a 10 Tooth 3/8" Bore Sprocket for #35 Chain http://www.electricscooterparts.com/sprockets35chain.html

Here's some #35 sprockets: http://www.out2win.com/catalog/sprkt_axle.html
Any of these 40mm sprocket hubs would work: http://www.out2win.com/catalog/sprkthub.html

But before you order your axle sprocket we need to consider your gear ratio. The specs for your electric motor shows it spins at a 2600 max rpm. If you used 10-tooth motor sprocket, with a 55-tooth axle sprocket, your estimated top speed would be 15mph. This is calculated with the 11" tall rear tires that a Birel racekart would typically use.

This search link lists several sources for Birel kart parts: http://www.google.com/search?source...qf.,cf.osb&fp=340cd0c5d9a8cd&biw=1024&bih=556
But most of the parts you'll need will interchange from most any other brand of racekart. The only exceptions are that your rear caliper and front spindles should be made for your Birel model.

Here's some good online retailers that sell race kart parts, but you'll find buying new race kart parts are very expensive everywhere:

http://www.out2win.com/catalog/index.html
http://www.kartpartsstore.net/servlet/StoreFront
http://www.cometkartsales.com/
http://www.tsracing.com/store/Directory.cfm?DID=7
http://www.apskarting.com/
http://www.bmikarts.com/ (this place has low prices, but calculate/compare their shipping cost before ordering...)

These are good sources for used and closeout parts:
http://www.seventh-gear.com/store/index.php
http://karting.4cycle.com/forumdisplay.php?f=54

 

[charles.and.karts]

i know your alredy getting from everyone. but would also suggest a gas motor. there easyer to work with and especally limit them so you not going to fast or to slow. because with gas its as simple as turning a bolt.

 

[fresh101]

The electric motor in that kit comes with an 11-tooth drive gear made to fit the small #25 chain pitch. So first you'll need to buy a new drive gear made for the larger #35 chain commonly used on racekarts like yours with 40mm. axles.

Here's a 10 Tooth 3/8" Bore Sprocket for #35 Chain http://www.electricscooterparts.com/sprockets35chain.html

Here's some #35 sprockets: http://www.out2win.com/catalog/sprkt_axle.html
Any of these 40mm sprocket hubs would work: http://www.out2win.com/catalog/sprkthub.html

But before you order your axle sprocket we need to consider your gear ratio. The specs for your electric motor shows it spins at a 2600 max rpm. If you used 10-tooth motor sprocket, with a 55-tooth axle sprocket, your estimated top speed would be 15mph. This is calculated with the 11" tall rear tires that a Birel racekart would typically use.

This search link lists several sources for Birel kart parts: http://www.google.com/search?source...qf.,cf.osb&fp=340cd0c5d9a8cd&biw=1024&bih=556
But most of the parts you'll need will interchange from most any other brand of racekart. The only exceptions are that your rear caliper and front spindles should be made for your Birel model.

Here's some good online retailers that sell race kart parts, but you'll find buying new race kart parts are very expensive everywhere:

http://www.out2win.com/catalog/index.html
http://www.kartpartsstore.net/servlet/StoreFront
http://www.cometkartsales.com/
http://www.tsracing.com/store/Directory.cfm?DID=7
http://www.apskarting.com/
http://www.bmikarts.com/ (this place has low prices, but calculate/compare their shipping cost before ordering...)

These are good sources for used and closeout parts:
http://www.seventh-gear.com/store/index.php
http://karting.4cycle.com/forumdisplay.php?f=54

Thanks for the responde, Anderkart. I found a 3/8 #35 12 tooth sprocket for the motor what do you think about usng that?

What about battery, as battery are expensive and was wondering how long will it give me of fun with let's say 2 optima battery yellow top?

I know that battery will add some weight, and was wondering if I can still maintain 18-20 mph with correct gear ratio. The kids weight about 60lbs, my goal is have them atleast 1+ hour of joy between my 3 kids before recharging.

 

[fresh101]

i know your alredy getting from everyone. but would also suggest a gas motor. there easyer to work with and especally limit them so you not going to fast or to slow. because with gas its as simple as turning a bolt.

Hello Charles and thanks for the recommendation. This suggestion have been given many times but honestly I need it quiet.

 

[anderkart]

Your 12 tooth estimated out to a 19mph with a 55 tooth axle sprocket.

Your motor is rated at a 34 amp draw. It'll probably draw more under acceleration and less at constant speeds.

The most powerful yellowtop is their D27F model: http://www.optimabatteries.com/optima_products/yellowtop/specs.php
Its Reserve Capacity is rated 140 minutes @ 25 amp discharge. So It sounds like a pair of those should easily get the kids an hours riding time.

 

[fresh101]

Your 12 tooth estimated out to a 19mph with a 55 tooth axle sprocket.

Your motor is rated at a 34 amp draw. It'll probably draw more under acceleration and less at constant speeds.

The most powerful yellowtop is their D27F model: http://www.optimabatteries.com/optima_products/yellowtop/specs.php
Its Reserve Capacity is rated 140 minutes @ 25 amp discharge. So It sounds like a pair of those should easily get the kids an hours riding time.

or is it wiser to use less tooth on motor and a bit higher on axle to compensate for the increase of weight, by using more torque and it should be ok for the kids to be around 10-15mph?

 

[anderkart]

Yeah 10-15mph might be a good idea.
You could calculate gearing combinations here: http://www.diygokarts.com/speed-calculator.html

 

[fresh101]

Need help with Tie Rod assembly

Hey, how do I calculate the tie rod length I need? Can I just get any tubular tie rod and then cut it down if it was long, or the tube (pipe) only have threads at the end and if I cut it, it will be gone?

 

[anderkart]

You'll need to get your spindles and steering column mounted and centered. Then measure and order your tie rods 2 inches shorter, because each of the heim joint ends will add an inch. You can order most any length tie rods here: http://www.out2win.com/catalog/steer_rods.html

Did that guy that sold your frame have the correct front spindles and brake caliper/rotor? Those would be the first parts I'd concentrate on buying. All the other parts you need will be easier to find.

 

[fresh101]

You'll need to get your spindles and steering column mounted and centered. Then measure and order your tie rods 2 inches shorter, because each of the heim joint ends will add an inch. You can order most any length tie rods here: http://www.out2win.com/catalog/steer_rods.html

Did that guy that sold your frame have the correct front spindles and brake caliper/rotor? Those would be the first parts I'd concentrate on buying. All the other parts you need will be easier to find.

Thanks for the info.

He gave me a matching spindle but they were not mounted on the frame, and not 100% sure if it's the exact spindles for the kart but when trying it it seems kinda exact. He gave me a bolt and nut for one side, so I can track down a second bolt and nut for the other side. I did not get any brake system, which I will have to get it aventually. I am also missing 2 more keys for the rear 40mm shaft that is 5mm depth x 8mm width x 60mm length.

PLEASE NOTE ANDERKART: I am just looking to put everything basic, not for racing, just for fun for the kids and at the same time I learn this hobby for when I built my full size kart and most likely a shifter.

Remember that I am planing on using this motor >>> Currie Tech motor <<<, but will like to know which controller I should consider if I want to run it at 36v?

 

[anderkart]

Ok I understand, but we still want the kart to steer correctly and have good brakes for safety reasons.

Birel made changes and used different brake calipers over the years, We need to find one that will fit and bolt on to your frames mounts. See if you can ID what year/model frame you have using this link: http://www.mrpmotorsport.com/technical/howto-gobirel-chassis.pdf

Most racekarts use diferent spindle for each side. They can also be mistakenly installed upside down where it will fit, but the caster/camber angles will be all wrong. Sometimes they have a L & R stamped in to help ID each side, do yours?

I've got lots of experience with automotive-electronics and racekarts like your Birel, but I've never had an electric powered kart. I look forward to helping you complete your chassis, but i'd suggest you do lots more research on electric karts before ordering any motors or speed control components. We've got an Electric Projects sub-forum here you could research and post questions, but I'd also research both these google search links:

http://www.google.com/search?source...qf.,cf.osb&fp=340cd0c5d9a8cd&biw=1024&bih=556

http://www.google.com/search?source...qf.,cf.osb&fp=340cd0c5d9a8cd&biw=1024&bih=556