Denny
Canned Monster
No boat tails there. And the faster ones run blunt tails.
Diamonite Electrathon America Racer
- Thread starter Functional Artist
- Start date
Functional Artist
Well-known member
I may be overstating this
...but, I feel like I had an epiphany yesterday
I realized (Ahhhhhhh
) that I've been using this empirical concept...like literally...forever...& IMO it seems to help explain why I've been "butting heads" with so many folks, for so long
Over the years, I've been told 1,000's of times..."you can't do that!"
...& my response was usually something like "I think, I already did" (quoting Tony Soprano)
or
"that's not how your supposed to do it"
...& my response was something like, "but, it worked"
Thinking about it, it's not like I'm "rejecting adherence to the dogmatic doctrines of the day"
...or prefer to "rely on the observation of phenomena as perceived in experience"
...it's just that haven't had any "higher" formal educated (just a standard issue USA HS diploma)
So, for many things in life
...& now this stuff (electrical systems or now, designing a monocoque)
...it seems like I've been (unknowingly) using the Empirical way/concept/theory
Now, I kinda understand how/why I'm always driving folks "nuts" with my "ways"
Denny
Canned Monster
Look at the rear of a 64 Shelby Daytona coupe for some answers.
Functional Artist
Well-known member
Hey Denny,
I'm just about done "jabbering" about the front
...then, we'll move on to the rest of the body
I guess, I've been trying to keep these concepts as simple as possible to help folks/students understand how knowledge of how some things "work" can & quite often does, "relate" to how other things "work"
Another quick "story"
I have memories of me & a buddy carrying 4' x 8' sheets of plywood, on a windy day
...& that "if" we kept it nice-n-level, while carrying it, the wind didn't seem to affect it very much
But, "if" we accidentally tilted the front of the board upward (into the wind)
...the wind would try to push or pick up the front upwards (lift)
&
Then, "if" we tilted the front of the board downwards
...the wind would push downward on the board (downforce)
The second drawing shows sheets of plywood with a 60* "break" & a 45* "break"
The top image, shows what it would "look like" "if" the front 2' of the board was "tilted" downward
...& the remaining 6' was still level or "flat"
The middle image shows what it would "look like" "if" the front 4' of the board was "tilted" downward
...& the remaining 4' was still level or "flat"
The bottom image shows what it would "look like" "if" the front 6' of the board was "tilted" downward
...& the remaining 2' was still level or "flat"
Now, imagine how much more "area" the wind would have to "push down" on the boards, with the longer part (6') tilted downward
...& also, how much "more" push down would happen by the board with the 45*
Then, to help show how this info applies to the body of a race car
1.) there are surfaces of a car that are relatively wide/flat, just like a sheet of plywood
So, it seems to reason that some of the same effects, should apply to some surfaces of a car
(to varying degrees, of course, depending on angle & surface area)
I'm just about done "jabbering" about the front
...then, we'll move on to the rest of the body
I guess, I've been trying to keep these concepts as simple as possible to help folks/students understand how knowledge of how some things "work" can & quite often does, "relate" to how other things "work"
Another quick "story"
I have memories of me & a buddy carrying 4' x 8' sheets of plywood, on a windy day
...& that "if" we kept it nice-n-level, while carrying it, the wind didn't seem to affect it very much
But, "if" we accidentally tilted the front of the board upward (into the wind)
...the wind would try to push or pick up the front upwards (lift)
&
Then, "if" we tilted the front of the board downwards
...the wind would push downward on the board (downforce)
The second drawing shows sheets of plywood with a 60* "break" & a 45* "break"
The top image, shows what it would "look like" "if" the front 2' of the board was "tilted" downward
...& the remaining 6' was still level or "flat"
The middle image shows what it would "look like" "if" the front 4' of the board was "tilted" downward
...& the remaining 4' was still level or "flat"
The bottom image shows what it would "look like" "if" the front 6' of the board was "tilted" downward
...& the remaining 2' was still level or "flat"
Now, imagine how much more "area" the wind would have to "push down" on the boards, with the longer part (6') tilted downward
...& also, how much "more" push down would happen by the board with the 45*
Then, to help show how this info applies to the body of a race car
1.) there are surfaces of a car that are relatively wide/flat, just like a sheet of plywood
So, it seems to reason that some of the same effects, should apply to some surfaces of a car
(to varying degrees, of course, depending on angle & surface area)
Last edited:
Functional Artist
Well-known member
I did another simple drawin'
...ta help add a bit more context
* These are just some "off the top of my head" baseline numbers
Notice, how in this example, the hood & roof line both angle upwards (~5*) slightly, which should:
1.) not add much "induced" drag
2.) not add much downforce
3.) & also, "if" curved could take advantage of the Bernoulli effect (helping to speed the air up)
Also, notice the floorboard would angle upwards (~5*) which should:
1.) reduce the risk of much if any "lift" in the front
2.) help to reduce the pressure of the air, as it "passes" under the body
...ta help add a bit more context
* These are just some "off the top of my head" baseline numbers
Notice, how in this example, the hood & roof line both angle upwards (~5*) slightly, which should:
1.) not add much "induced" drag
2.) not add much downforce
3.) & also, "if" curved could take advantage of the Bernoulli effect (helping to speed the air up)
Also, notice the floorboard would angle upwards (~5*) which should:
1.) reduce the risk of much if any "lift" in the front
2.) help to reduce the pressure of the air, as it "passes" under the body
Functional Artist
Well-known member
Been doin' more thinkin' & drawin'
...& addin' some 3Dness
So, here we have (2) different cars
They both have a ~40" "track" & a ~48" wheelbase
...& both are ~34" tall & ~60" long overall
&
If you look at them from a side view, they look about the same
But,
"if" we look at them from a front view, you'll notice that the top car has a much larger "face" or frontal area
So, it should be pretty easy to see how the car (on the bottom) with less frontal area, or smaller "face" should have less "induced" drag
...than, the car with the wider body
...&/so, should cut thru the air more easily
...& addin' some 3Dness
So, here we have (2) different cars
They both have a ~40" "track" & a ~48" wheelbase
...& both are ~34" tall & ~60" long overall
&
If you look at them from a side view, they look about the same
But,
"if" we look at them from a front view, you'll notice that the top car has a much larger "face" or frontal area
So, it should be pretty easy to see how the car (on the bottom) with less frontal area, or smaller "face" should have less "induced" drag
...than, the car with the wider body
...&/so, should cut thru the air more easily
ezcome-ezgo
G'me sumthin to write on
Aerodynamic Forces | Glenn Research Center | NASA
When two solid objects interact in a mechanical process, forces are transmitted, or applied, at the point of contact. But when a solid object interacts
www1.grc.nasa.gov
ezcome-ezgo
G'me sumthin to write on
ezcome-ezgo
G'me sumthin to write on
This is cool:
www1.grc.nasa.gov
Student Airfoil Interactive | Glenn Research Center | NASA
Please note: the simulation below is best viewed on a desktop computer. It may take a few minutes for the simulation to load. With this simulator you can
www1.grc.nasa.gov
Master Hack
Well-known member
On another note, since ya all ben thinkin i ben slakin, i had the spinna machine runnin, so l thought i would werk on sum hubs.
Well actually i had egor and the film crew do phase one. Tonights episode is the first in a series, titled "from bullion to billet".
In the vault here at the Mt. Top lab, l found a 2.5 inch aluminum bullion thingy.
So, follow along as we turn bullion into billet stuff.
Well actually i had egor and the film crew do phase one. Tonights episode is the first in a series, titled "from bullion to billet".
In the vault here at the Mt. Top lab, l found a 2.5 inch aluminum bullion thingy.
So, follow along as we turn bullion into billet stuff.
Denny
Canned Monster
How’s the hand doing?
Master Hack
Well-known member
Mo bedder Not numb any longer! Still a handycap tho! Monday the bandage comes off.
Thanks!
Denny
Canned Monster
Looks like that will leave a mark!
Master Hack
Well-known member
Chicks dig scars.
Whitetrashrocker
Inmate #952016
Hope the miss' is lending a helping hand.
What happened?
What happened?
Master Hack
Well-known member
Surgery for carpal tunnel pinched nerve.
Mom always said l would go blind, never said anything about the wrist!
Mom always said l would go blind, never said anything about the wrist!
Master Hack
Well-known member
Returning to our regular programming....
Today the slaves decided to strike. Left with no options Egor and l stumbled through some machine work and started making hub thingys.
This is a cool little gadget:
https://youtube.com/shorts/ngawD-n4x9A?feature=share
an edge finder. If l knew how to use it, it can find an edge. If ya find the edge then ya can find center.
then a center drill
then get a cheat sheet.
then drill some holes
don't know why the DRO doesn't photograph well?
shyt! Missed all of 'em
that conculdes this cluster...
Today the slaves decided to strike. Left with no options Egor and l stumbled through some machine work and started making hub thingys.
This is a cool little gadget:
https://youtube.com/shorts/ngawD-n4x9A?feature=share
an edge finder. If l knew how to use it, it can find an edge. If ya find the edge then ya can find center.
then a center drill
then get a cheat sheet.
then drill some holes
don't know why the DRO doesn't photograph well?
shyt! Missed all of 'em
that conculdes this cluster...
Attachments
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IMG_4669.jpeg -
IMG_4669.jpeg
Master Hack
Well-known member
Submitted for your approval is mini hub Rev.F
we have many speed secrets here @ the Mt Top Labratory. Among them are speed holes and our Proprietary Atmospheric friction reduction coating. The rest remains classified.
we have many speed secrets here @ the Mt Top Labratory. Among them are speed holes and our Proprietary Atmospheric friction reduction coating. The rest remains classified.
Functional Artist
Well-known member
That's a lookin' mighty fine! 
Functional Artist
Well-known member
Been doin' lots of research (reading another book & watchin' some videos)
...& drawin'
Hey T,
I did a drawin' of the free-wheel assembly mounting
...to help explain
The wheel flange (left)
...would be welded to the free-wheel mount (middle left)
The free-wheel mount, would then thread into the free-wheel unit (middle right)
...& then, the sprocket (right) would be bolted to the free-wheel unit
...& drawin'
Hey T,
I did a drawin' of the free-wheel assembly mounting
...to help explain
The wheel flange (left)
...would be welded to the free-wheel mount (middle left)
The free-wheel mount, would then thread into the free-wheel unit (middle right)
...& then, the sprocket (right) would be bolted to the free-wheel unit