Barn Find Vintage Drill Press

[Doc Sprocket]

LOL

Trust me- the motor's nothing new... I'll have to shoot some closeups of it. The spindle's just being crotchety. I THINK I know how to get it off, once it chooses to co-operate. I believe it's a tapered chuck, and there's a threaded collar between the chuck and spindle. I THINK I need to hold the chuck/spindle still, and turn that collar up until it forces the chuck out. I'll go shoot a closeup shortly.

Since I don't have anything In print, I THINK low speed is 450-500 RPM based on pulley sizes, and 1725RPM motor. I would LOVE for it to go much slower, considering the chuck capacity is 5/8". Makes me wonder if I can lay hands on a lower-speed motor, or maybe do my own compound reduction with an extra shaft and pulleys...

EDIT- Some pics. the collar above the chuck is internally threaded. If you look closely you can see the threads it rides on. The motor- Definitely old! Cast iron housing, and an oil port at each bearing. The ports are threaded, with a screwdriver slot. I just did a bit of research, and found the following blurb: "Leland Electric had a Canadian Subsidiary, Leland Electric Canada Ltd., which was active until at least 1957." Original motor, anybody?

 

[machinist@large]

LOL

Trust me- the motor's nothing new... I'll have to shoot some closeups of it. The spindle's just being crotchety. I THINK I know how to get it off, once it chooses to co-operate. I believe it's a tapered chuck, and there's a threaded collar between the chuck and spindle. I THINK I need to hold the chuck/spindle still, and turn that collar up until it forces the chuck out. I'll go shoot a closeup shortly.

Since I don't have anything In print, I THINK low speed is 450-500 RPM based on pulley sizes, and 1725RPM motor. I would LOVE for it to go much slower, considering the chuck capacity is 5/8". Makes me wonder if I can lay hands on a lower-speed motor, or maybe do my own compound reduction with an extra shaft and pulleys...

Compound reduction can add a tremendous amount of torque; that translates to some serious directional stress loads in the design. This IS doable, as long as you keep that in mind.

If you were just around the corner, and we could hash out what needed to be done (within the usual Mc Budget) over a couple of days; we could probably pull it all together over 2~3 weekends (barring other commitments).

Please keep me in the loop; I know this is doable. All I can say is that the holidays are going to be rough. We just got the schedule thru the first of the year; from Dec. 19 to Jan. 3, the only days that we have scheduled off are Christmas and New years day. Scheduled tear down and rebuild while the customers work force has the Holidays off. Goes with the job description (if this job were easy, news anchors and small children would be able to do it!!).

 

[Doc Sprocket]

I wish you WERE closer... Any further thought on the chuck?
EDIT- Some rust removal with a hunk o' #000 Steel Wool soaked in oil revealed the markings on the chuck- Jacobs 633D, 33 Taper"

 

[machinist@large]

LOL

Trust me- the motor's nothing new... I'll have to shoot some closeups of it. The spindle's just being crotchety. I THINK I know how to get it off, once it chooses to co-operate. I believe it's a tapered chuck, and there's a threaded collar between the chuck and spindle. I THINK I need to hold the chuck/spindle still, and turn that collar up until it forces the chuck out. I'll go shoot a closeup shortly.

Since I don't have anything In print, I THINK low speed is 450-500 RPM based on pulley sizes, and 1725RPM motor. I would LOVE for it to go much slower, considering the chuck capacity is 5/8". Makes me wonder if I can lay hands on a lower-speed motor, or maybe do my own compound reduction with an extra shaft and pulleys...

EDIT- Some pics. the collar above the chuck is internally threaded. If you look closely you can see the threads it rides on. The motor- Definitely old! Cast iron housing, and an oil port at each bearing. The ports are threaded, with a screwdriver slot. I just did a bit of research, and found the following blurb: "Leland Electric had a Canadian Subsidiary, Leland Electric Canada Ltd., which was active until at least 1957." Original motor, anybody?

OUCH!! Here's where I get hoisted by my own petard; I've seen chuck mount's like that, but I've never had to tear one down. First thoughts on it; if this was powered from new with a single Phase 120 V motor, then it threads on (as viewed from the front) from left to right; that's where the past history of the unit becomes very critical, as well as having it in my hand; the whole knowing when to back off before you destroy some thing is very critical.

I'm guessing that the motor that came with it is probably an OEM part; if it plugs into a standard 110 socket with only an ON/OFF switch, then, if you can clamp the splined end of the spindle shaft (the end that interfaces with the front pulley assembly, which is usually mounted as some form of cassette that is fixed to the to of the main head-stock casting), then tighten the chuck itself on the biggest Allen wrench/ hex key that will fit in the chuck.

Then, with the top end of the shaft secured as firmly as possible, use the biggest, heaviest hammer you have to start tapping at the end of the hex key: You can deliver much more precise blows from a big hammer swung softly than you can from a tiny hammer swung like a poor imitation of Thor.

That's where I wish we were right around the corner; I've learned (thru bitter experience) when to back off, and think about the next step.....

 

[machinist@large]

I wish you WERE closer... Any further thought on the chuck?
EDIT- Some rust removal with a hunk o' #000 Steel Wool soaked in oil revealed the markings on the chuck- Jacobs 633D, 33 Taper"

Put the post I just made in abeyance; my working copy of the Machinist Handbook is at work. If you can access it on line, then you can cross reference the mounting system and (loosely) how to get it off.

How so many of you can just pull up information out of a hat is beyond me, as well as my level of comp. skills......

 

[Doc Sprocket]

Ahhh... The sweet smell of success!

I was right about the collar, wrong about direction. I thought that turning it up against the spindle would force the chuck down. Wrong. Turning the collar DOWN against the chuck forces it off it's taper. FWIW- I grabbed the collar with a pair of Vise-Grips because I don't have a spanner the right size, and chucked in a large Allen key. A little WD40 and a short blast with a hot wrench for good measure, and gave the Allen key a sharp smack with a 2lb club while holding the vise-grips. Poof! Although I worked it out on my own, thank you for attempting to help, machinist! And don't go away yet- I want to disassemble the chuck for cleaning. It's a bit stiff. How the HECK do I do that? The collar was retained to the chuck with a snap ring, and I got it off. But what the heck holds the chuck together? Meanwhile, the chuck is soaking in a half-gallon of WD-40.

BTW_ I do not understand what the motor has to do with the chuck?

 

[machinist@large]

Ahhh... The sweet smell of success!

I was right about the collar, wrong about direction. I thought that turning it up against the spindle would force the chuck down. Wrong. Turning the collar DOWN against the chuck forces it off it's taper. Although I worked it out on my own, thank you for attempting to help, machinist! And don't go away yet- I want to disassemble the chuck for cleaning. It's a bit stiff. How the HECK do I do that? The collar was retained to the chuck with a snap ring, and I got it off. But what the heck holds the chuck together?

BTW_ I do not understand what the motor has to do with the chuck?

If is a single phase motor (usually non reversing, then the spindle would only rotate from Right to Left; if this unit had a threaded spindle nose (like an electric or air hand drill) then to get the chuck off, you would have had to "test the waters" so to speak, with the (tentative) steps I listed.

Does your chuck have an OEM marking, like Jacobs????

Some picture would be great, and I'll be following this thread; all I know is that my bed time (based on what I had dumped on me at work) is fast approaching. Much after 10:00, not going to happen,

 

[Doc Sprocket]

Ahh. I see. There's a pic of the chuck in post#21. I'll shoot one tomorrow when I take it outta the bath. I'm going to let it soak overnight. I'm starting to get the impression I have to press it apart and back together. I don't own a press. I could chance it with sockets/ sections of pipe, but if I were to break it, I'd s**t. Hopefully, the bath will free it up enough and I won't have to break it down.

The excess oil sure ain't gonna hurt. If you saw the puddle of cutting oil under my current drill press, well- I guess I don't have to explain that to you, eh?

 

[machinist@large]

I wish I knew how to do quotes with pictures;it would make life a little easier....

In your picture of the business end of the spindle with the collar in prev. posts, the outer ring of the chuck (w/the ribbing, that you grab to tighten/loosen) is pressed on. To do it properly, you need an arbor press; here is why.

Take the chuck in question [step 1] and spin collar until the jaws are just below the surface of the nose of the chuck,

[Step 2] Place chuck nose up in your press, with blocking under the edges of the rotating collar used to tighten the chuck.

[Step 3] VERY CAREFULLY press the chucking collar off the chuck body; if you damage the bottom flange (which is basically a really expensive dust cover), it'll make the chuck very difficult , if not impossible to use.

[Step 4] As you press the chucking collar off, you need to be ready to A{most likely in this case} catch the two halves of the chuck nut, or B{ for full ball bearing chucks} both halves of the nut and all the ball bearings (all the little balls) that make a Ball Bearing chuck what it is.

Based on your photo's, I'm fairly certain that you have a plain bearing chuck (no little balls to escape); once you have the collar off, you need to "Clock" the three jaws, in their respective pockets; the reference point is to have the tips of the three jaws flush with the spindle nose when you go to install the two halves of the chuck nut. They are designed to act in unison; when you put both halves of the nut together (they can only go on one way; the threads are on a taper) and spin them, all three jaws should act in unison; if they don't, then you have two jaws out of sequence.

[Step 5] Now that you have the jaws timed out in proper sequence, pull the nut halves out (VERY CAREFULLY!!!) one at a time and VERY SPARINGLY dab some moderately heavy grease on the working surfaces of the nut segments (goop it in, and you'll be wearing it for who knows how long; lets just say I learned that lesson the hard way).

Now press the chucking collar back over the whole assembly; use only a mechanical press for this, because any thing hydraulic/ pneumatic won't give you the feel you need to keep from trashing the whole darn mess (again, No Comment).

To just clean the unit is fairly do able with the right tools; if that doesn't work out, I'm not sure what a new one costs anymore. I just haven't had to price one out in years. You gave the correct model and mounting #'s ~ Jacobs 633D, 33 taper; most real industrial supply houses should be able to match it up (with competitive models from other makes) so you have some options on where you decide to go.

Wish I could give you more info; distance is against us......

 

[Doc Sprocket]

Wish I could give you more info; distance is against us......

Actually, that WAS quite informative, thank you! And since I don't yet have that arbor press I've been thinkin' 'bout, I'll hold off on disassembly for now. Seems kinda risky, and frankly the chuck isn;t sticking THAT badly. The jaws didn't appear horribly worn, either. I'll find out more later when it comes out of the bath.

 

[machinist@large]

WD-40 is an OK penetrant, but it's not that great as a mechanical lubricant; It's pretty much just deodored kerosene with water dispersant agents added (Water Dispersant formula #40).

In this case, used as a penetrant/ flushing agent, it's a pretty good choice; most commercial solvent tanks use a heaver mineral spirits bases solution for their cleaning agents, which is still a decent penetrant,just much heavier.

The best way to flush these types of things out is a solvent tank with a recirculating pump; that way you can work the chuck opened and closed, flipping it top to bottom, focusing the solvent stream on the joint where the chucking collar meets the chuck body. When it feels about as smooth as it's likely to get, set it spindle nose up on some shop towels (what ever you have) and let it drip dry.

To lubricate it, grab a can of three~in~one oil, and start lubricating the top edge of the joint between the chuck body and the collar, as well as the three bores that the jaws operate/ run in. Take your time, go sparingly with the oil so you wont have to wear it for weeks to come. When you are satisfied as to the feel of the action of the chuck, comes the next step; remounting it.

Tools you will need to clean the #33 taper bore of the chuck and the corresponding end of the spindle nose are a green Scotch Brite pad and a SMALL amount of WD-40. An easy source for the pads are most likely in the kitchen- the typical green scrub pad dish sponge. You want to buff/ clean both the shaft and the spindle socket of the chuck. When you are satisfied, degrease both with Brake & Part cleaner and some real cloth rags; you need to make sure you have all the grit out of/ off of both.

To remount, retract the jaws (chuck all the way open) into the chuck body. Place a dense block of wood under the spindle nose, place the chuck, mounting bore up, on the block, gently guide the spindle shaft into the chuck.

Now, making sure the chuck and spindle are fairly tight, take the quill feed hand wheel, and rap the chuck/ spindle down against the wood block 3~4 times to make sure you have the 2 seated together. This style of mounting requires an interference fit to transmit power.

Now that you have the chuck remounted, throw a known straight drill bit in the chuck (or a sample shaft of some sort) to confirm the alignment and run out; this being a patch type repair, if the drill/ test bar swings an arc within a 1/32" (1MM) circle, you are in the ball park. Anything closer is just money in the bank.

The final test is how tight the chuck is on the shaft; throw some reference lines on the chuck body and the spindle (Sharpies are great for this) and make a test drill job. I would recommend starting slowly with a smaller drill bit; keep the feed pressure on the heavy side till the chuck and spindle are bedded in.

Hope this helps....

 

[Doc Sprocket]

Good stuff!

The chuck's feeling pretty good now. I left that aside to drool the excess -40 out, and turned my attention to other things. I cleaned the head casting and shot a coat of paint on it to see if I'd like it. I do- So, when I reach that point, I will be painting all the castings in this colour. It's Rustoleum Hunt Club Green, satin finish. No, it's not the original colour, and no- I don't care. But it does look like a nice "vintage machine" colour!

I'm a bit annoyed by the arc of "overdrill" marks on the table. But so many old drill presses have these, as my google searching revealed. One guy filled 'em all with JB Weld, and sanded flush. I might, who knows. I'm not looking to restore this to mint, just clean it up and put some miles on it...

I'm also including pics that show the chuck body, the threaded mounting collar, and the threaded and tapered spindle mount. Please note that I have re-attached the threaded collar to the chuck, it's held on with a snap ring.

 

[machinist@large]

Good stuff!

The chuck's feeling pretty good now. I left that aside to drool the excess -40 out, and turned my attention to other things. I cleaned the head casting and shot a coat of paint on it to see if I'd like it. I do- So, when I reach that point, I will be painting all the castings in this colour. It's Rustoleum Hunt Club Green, satin finish. No, it's not the original colour, and no- I don't care. But it does look like a nice "vintage machine" colour!

I'm a bit annoyed by the arc of "overdrill" marks on the table. But so many old drill presses have these, as my google searching revealed. One guy filled 'em all with JB Weld, and sanded flush. I might, who knows. I'm not looking to restore this to mint, just clean it up and put some miles on it...

I'm also including pics that show the chuck body, the threaded mounting collar, and the threaded and tapered spindle mount. Please note that I have re-attached the threaded collar to the chuck, it's held on with a snap ring.

Fascinating!! Like I said in previous post, I've seen this style of spindle/ chuck arrangement in passing, but never had to work on one. Now that I've seen the photo's, it looks like the threaded collar is used to tighten the chuck onto the tapered nose of the spindle, as well as helping to remove it.

I'd say, if every thing else on the unit spins smoothly/ feels good, put it back together with a new drive belt, and start making chips!!!

 

[Doc Sprocket]

Yessir, that's the plan! I'm completely enamoured by this old iron. I love it, I really do. I think the colour suits it beautifully to. My wife suggested I hand paint the "Canadian" logos on the side in red, I think I will. I still have a few hours of cleaning/wire brushing/sanding the parts ahead of me.

You're right about the chuck. It remains to be seen about reassembly. I don't know if I'll need to give it a smack on the final tightening or not- still researching.

I was playing with the motor last night before bed. I took the access cover off to determine the source of a bit of a squeak and ended up learning something. I had never seen a centrifugal start motor before... Cool! Thank god for the internet! Anyway- brushes look good and so does the commutator, so I shot some oil into the bearings and called it good.

I'm not quite sure where the switch was mounted from the factory, but somebody had made a plate that sandwiched between the motor base and mounting plate to mount the switch on. Looked terrible, so I tossed it. I mounted the switch box directly to the motor where the original junction box was. I had a leftover length of 10/3 (Yes, it's overkill for a 1/3hp 110v motor, but it's what I had) so I connected that up with a new 3-prong plug. Bueno. Gonna clean the motor up, and probably shoot it black.

Forgot to mention- where the head casting had the hogged out hole for the motor mounting post fixing bolt- the one with the broken bolt and helicoil that I extracted- I drilled that out and re-tapped it to 3/8NC16", and then drilled and tapped the other side to match.

 

[machinist@large]

Yessir, that's the plan! I'm completely enamoured by this old iron. I love it, I really do. I think the colour suits it beautifully to. My wife suggested I hand paint the "Canadian" logos on the side in red, I think I will. I still have a few hours of cleaning/wire brushing/sanding the parts ahead of me.

You're right about the chuck. It remains to be seen about reassembly. I don't know if I'll need to give it a smack on the final tightening or not- still researching.

I was playing with the motor last night before bed. I took the access cover off to determine the source of a bit of a squeak and ended up learning something. I had never seen a centrifugal start motor before... Cool! Thank god for the internet! Anyway- brushes look good and so does the commutator, so I shot some oil into the bearings and called it good.

I'm not quite sure where the switch was mounted from the factory, but somebody had made a plate that sandwiched between the motor base and mounting plate to mount the switch on. Looked terrible, so I tossed it. I mounted the switch box directly to the motor where the original junction box was. I had a leftover length of 10/3 (Yes, it's overkill for a 1/3hp 110v motor, but it's what I had) so I connected that up with a new 3-prong plug. Bueno. Gonna clean the motor up, and probably shoot it black.

Forgot to mention- where the head casting had the hogged out hole for the motor mounting post fixing bolt- the one with the broken bolt and helicoil that I extracted- I drilled that out and re-tapped it to 3/8NC16", and then drilled and tapped the other side to match.

Easy Chris, down boy!! Down!!

Sounds like Christmas came early for some one I know ; I like the green so far; a potential shade of red that might complement it for the lettering that I personally like is Rustoleum Sunrise red. Check it out.

As far as mounting the chuck, when I said to give give a couple of raps to force the two tapers together, that's how they're designed to be mounted. Tapered tooling interfaces are extremely common in industry; even when the tool in question also has a drive tang (like a Morse taper drill bit) you are still counting on the interference fit of the two tapers to actually transmit the rotational power from one part to the other. If they aren't tight enough, the chuck will spin on the spindle nose, chewing them both up. Been there, fixed that. And without the proper tapered reamer for the socket in question, it's a real to fix, if it hasn't been torn up to the point of uselessness.

Here's a quick and easy way to confirm this for yourself; when you get ready to mount the chuck, get it as tight as you can using the collar. Then, grab the down-feed handle and give the chuck a couple of quick raps on the afore mentioned block of wood; no harder than you would expect to lean on it drilling a large hole. Check the threaded collar; I think you'll be surprised just how much slack you now have. The collar alone won't get it tight enough all by itself.

Brush type motor? Means maybe you could use a variable speed controller to get lower RPM's. Other that your teasing amount of info, I don't have enough information to do much more than guess.

10/3 for the cord is just about right for shop durability, and as long as it's not like, 500 ft long won't hurt a bit.

Other than that, all I can say is that you really are going to town on this one!!!!

 

[Doc Sprocket]

Pat, you are SO right! This is Christmas for me! I feel like a kid with a new toy, and I can't wait to get it all assembled!

You just teased the HE// outta me with the variable speed comment. What information can I provide to help ascertain if this is possible???
EDIT- I just found this document, which looks like a dead ringer for my motor...

Thanks for the chuck mounting tips, I appreciate it.

FWIW, the 10/3 cord is about 6 feet long. I had originally bought it to replace the supply cord for my Lincoln Weld-Pak 100. The the welder packed up, and I ended up replacing the whole thing for less than repair costs- so the cord sat around waiting for this moment!

Been cleaning and painting parts all morning. Did the first coat on the lettering, it's Tremclad Fire Red- because I had 3/4 gallon sitting in my garage.

 

[Doc Sprocket]

Kinda pops, don't it?

 

[machinist@large]

Well,the link you posted answered my question about the use of a variable speed controller; won't work with this particular unit. With only the few words you had used to describe it, I was (tentatively) guessing that you might have had a brush type universal motor, like an angle grinder or a variable speed drill; from reading the description you linked to, that motor design was a precursor of the now common capacitor start/ capacitor run motors now in use today. I had never heard of such a design before today; although we may very well have a few in the old motor pile upstairs in the old farm granary. Guess I'll just have to chalk it up as further proof that I'm not omnipotent.

As for the drill bites in the top of the table, someone I know buys and sells machine tools in a really big way and talking with his shop crew turned me on to a new type of JB Weld that is metalized, gets hotter that while the catalysts are doing their thing, and when cured it machines like steel. I've found it at the local auto parts store, I just haven't had a job for it yet. Maybe something to look into?

I can tell you're going to enjoy putting this old girl to work!!

Pat

 

[machinist@large]

Kinda pops, don't it?

Awesome!!! Just guessing from the photo, I take it you've seen this sort of thing done once or twice before?

 

[Doc Sprocket]

Awesome!!! Just guessing from the photo, I take it you've seen this sort of thing done once or twice before?

I did come upon a nicely restored example in my quest for information. The colour scheme was different, but it looked good. I actually hadn't planned on painting the logo. My wife looked at the head casting after the first coat of green, and said, "This might sound crazy, but I've got an idea".

Shame about the motor, but for the purposes of information, have a look here. If you scroll down to the 6th motor on the page, you'll see a variable-speed, reversible version of it. Rare, but entirely funkadelic. It's too bad I can't do that. I guess I will have to tolerate the speed for now, doing what I always do. Frikkin' quarts of cutting oil, and feeding gently and backing out often on the big holes. Normally, I work my way up in hole size in several steps, anyhow.

Since you are unfamiliar with this type of motor, I don't feel so stupid...

As far as that JB Weld product, I'll keep my eyes peeled, and think about it. This isn't a make-it-beautiful-and-perfect-in-every-way showpiece that I want to sell for a big gob of cash to some collector that's going to put it in a showcase and wipe it down with a diaper every day, it's something that I plan on putting some real miles on. So, I don't know if I'll even bother filling them. EDIT- Wife says they add character...

I gotta get me a nice cross-slide vise to go with it...

EDIT- I have to figure out what to do with the pulleys, being cast aluminum (or zinc). Obviously, they are dirty, discoloured, and dull. I could paint them, or just simply clean them up best as I can with steel wool or a scotchbrite pad or something. Undecided.