Steal on a Ducar 212

[Rat]

The Duc has landed

 

[Rat]

Dove in to inspect; the PVL did not want to come off and required negotiations with a torch and oil before it let go politely.

Piston checks at precisely 0.10" in the hole with a big ole exhaust relief cast into the crown. It's deep enough into the dish Im not even sure an FT swap would be safe having to cut that deep.

That said I don't think I'm going to change anything but the exhaust, probably the carb at some point... the whole damn head would have to swap to run an FT so I'd go 18cc there because 14 just seems like a high comp problem

Q: Does the PVL use a specific coil?

Im not going to use it due to the lack of charging support, So if I sell then I'd prefer to include the coil.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Dove in to inspect; the PVL did not want to come off and required negotiations with a torch and oil before it let go politely.

Piston checks at precisely 0.10" in the hole with a big ole exhaust relief cast into the crown. It's deep enough into the dish Im not even sure an FT swap would be safe having to cut that deep.

That said I don't think I'm going to change anything but the exhaust, probably the carb at some point... the whole damn head would have to swap to run an FT so I'd go 18cc there because 14 just seems like a high comp problem

Q: Does the PVL use a specific coil?

Im not going to use it due to the lack of charging support, So if I sell then I'd prefer to include the coil.

You missed a .0, .

No worries, I know it's only .010"-.015"... it's a Ducar. I've been inside a few, .

Don't punish and cuss the flywheel, it's built and designed to be removed and re used with a FLYWHEEL PULLER. It's not a stock over weight p.o.s flywheel. No hammering on the crank, no prying on the flywheel and block with a crow bar.

This is a quality "turd motor", not some junk roto-tiller motor anybody can buy at HF and really think they got a deal on a race motor

I hope you didn't fruk that flywheel up, that's the twig and berries of that bad boy,

That's the same piston that comes in all the Ducar 212's, it needs that exhaust valve relief, cas........it's a HEMI !!!!!

The edge of the exhaust valve is the closest to the piston. Told ya.....it's a different HEMI head then the pred.

The pvl flywheel works with any clone style coil, save your Dover coil for your build.

Here's a real flywheel puller, it's for real flywheels, not junk wannabe's., jus pulling your leg, I know what you want,

7250 Flywheel Puller

ARC Racing 7250 flywheel puller designed for safely removing ARC billet flywheels and PVL clone flywheels. Ideal tool for kart racing engine service and performance builds.

www.arcracing.com

 

[Rat]

You missed a .0, .

Yeah I did... used the back edge of a new hacksaw blade to bridge the cylinder and stuck a feeler under it until one fit 0.010

No worries, I know it's only .010"-.015"... it's a Ducar. I've been inside a few, .

Don't punish and cuss the flywheel, it's built and designed to be removed and re used with a FLYWHEEL PULLER. It's not a stock over weight p.o.s flywheel. No hammering on the crank, no prying on the flywheel and block with a crow bar.

This is a quality "turd motor", not some junk roto-tiller motor anybody can buy at HF and really think they got a deal on a race motor

Most of the clowns I know swear by a Predator and wouldn't know what a Ducar is if I tried to stick up their arse running.
To quote one of the guys... "Its a what? Who makes that?"

I hope you didn't fruk that flywheel up, that's the twig and berries of that bad boy,

Nah, but I've got a lot of practice knocking them off "the wrong way" so I can pull the aluminum ones without trashing them.
A little oil
A little heat around the shaft but not on it
A little more oil
Thread the nut on, slide a tire iron behind the flywheel, and slap the shaft end square with a flat faced hammer.
NOT BEAT, POUND, OR HIT, Just a quick pop like backhanding a smartmouthed kid that forgot how not to talk to their elders and needs reminded.

The heat, oil, and resonant vibration through the crank does most of the work, and the tire iron is only in play to control movement on the work bench.

"Twig and Berries" It's going to be a Burly Eunich then because the PVL is of no realistic use to me

That's the same piston that comes in all the Ducar 212's, it needs that exhaust valve relief, cas........it's a HEMI !!!!!

The edge of the exhaust valve is the closest to the piston. Told ya.....it's a different HEMI head then the pred.

27/24 at a steeper angle but I didn't expect a shallow dish with a relief, there must be some serious lift on the cam.

The pvl flywheel works with any clone style coil, save your Dover coil for your build.

My Dover is currently on my 208, but seeing as this thing is capable of turning over 5k on it current coil that's what I needed to know.
Sell the PVL, keep the coil

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Yeah I did... used the back edge of a new hacksaw blade to bridge the cylinder and stuck a feeler under it until one fit 0.010

Most of the clowns I know swear by a Predator and wouldn't know what a Ducar is if I tried to stick up their arse running.
To quote one of the guys... "Its a what? Who makes that?"

Nah, but I've got a lot of practice knocking them off "the wrong way" so I can pull the aluminum ones without trashing them.
A little oil
A little heat around the shaft but not on it
A little more oil
Thread the nut on, slide a tire iron behind the flywheel, and slap the shaft end square with a flat faced hammer. The heat, oil, and resonant vibration through the crank does more than the tire iron because that's only in play to control movement on the work bench.

"Twig and Berries" It's going to be a Burly Eunich then because the PVL is of no realistic use to me

27/24 at a steeper angle but I didn't expect a shallow dish with a relief, there must be some serious lift on the cam.

My Dover is currently on my 208, but seeing as this thing is capable of turning over 5k on it current coil that's what I needed to know.
Sell the PVL, keep the coil

Jus a heads up, when you put those charging coils on and add that much heavier flywheel, you completely changed what that engine was built and designed for.

It's still gonna have the torq and hp, it's jus not gonna come in as quick as it would with the much lighter PVL flywheel.

Don't add a bigger carb, it'll jus make power come in later.

That ruixing comes from the factory with a .016" low speed jet and a .028" main jet, the e-tube is nothing special.

You can easily open the main up to .031" with a 1/32" drill bit.

The low speed needs opened too, but you gonna need a .018" then a .020", then a .022" to creep up on it. Go too far on the low side and it's gonna hunt for a idle.

With a ruixing carb, stock air box and stock muffler, I start with a .022" low, and .031" main, but I have extra jets, sprockets, driver springs and weights, if I go too far, I can change back without being stuck with a mistake.


I'm hitting the sack for tonight.

Ttyl

 

[Rat]

Jus a heads up, when you put those charging coils on and add that much heavier flywheel, you completely changed what that engine was built and designed for.

I know, wanting the Ducar was about getting quality. He had 2 untouched Predator Hemi's for a Benji each if I wanted a janky B*tch engine that would need 3x the work to be what I want and still DNF on the quality.

I'm really undecided on the FT & Wedge Swap, but mostly my focus is going to be getting the running gear squared up.

It's still gonna have the torq and hp, it's jus not gonna come in as quick as it would with the much lighter PVL flywheel.

That's fine. If I can set up the 24/36vDC motor I have as an external alternator then I have no reason to put on a pig puck flywheel. Make me no difference either way because again I DONT DO TRACK TOYS

Don't add a bigger carb, it'll jus make power come in later.

If I swapped the carb I'd no doubt go with a PWK design because I already have plenty of both jets for those. I'd very likely get a 26 and swap it in for the 24 on my 208 currently despite being beautifully dialed in to that engine and cam.

That ruixing comes from the factory with a .016" low speed jet and a .028" main jet, the e-tube is nothing special.

You can easily open the main up to .031" with a 1/32" drill bit.
The low speed needs opened too, but you gonna need a .018" then a .020", then a .022" to creep up on it. Go too far on the low side and it's gonna hunt for a idle.
With a ruixing carb, stock air box and stock muffler, I start with a .022" low, and .031" main, but I have extra jets, sprockets, driver springs and weights, if I go too far, I can change back without being stuck with a mistake.

Not going to run any stock boxes.

I'll likely throw a velocity stack on the ruixing, with a round brigs filter strapped over (paper torched out, prefilter only) for the time being and I have an exhaust already made that should work fine (1" ID straight after clearance for the studs)

The extra flow from that combination should lean it out just enough to be perfectly on point based on how black the Autolite plug is.

I also pulled it apart due to improper transportation on the sellers end. He apparently filled the tank to the too and let it run it a bit before bringing it; unfortunately the petcock was left open and it took a tumble in the bed of his truck before being restrained... no harm, no foul, just a completely full lower airbox and cylinder of gas from near BDC

 

[BrownStainRacing]

I know, wanting the Ducar was about getting quality. He had 2 untouched Predator Hemi's for a Benji each if I wanted a janky B*tch engine that would need 3x the work to be what I want and still DNF on the quality.

I'm really undecided on the FT & Wedge Swap, but mostly my focus is going to be getting the running gear squared up.

That's fine. If I can set up the 24/36vDC motor I have as an external alternator then I have no reason to put on a pig puck flywheel. Make me no difference either way because again I DONT DO TRACK TOYS

If I swapped the carb I'd no doubt go with a PWK design because I already have plenty of both jets for those. I'd very likely get a 26 and swap it in for the 24 on my 208 currently despite being beautifully dialed in to that engine and cam.

Not going to run any stock boxes.

I'll likely throw a velocity stack on the ruixing, with a round brigs filter strapped over (paper torched out, prefilter only) for the time being and I have an exhaust already made that should work fine (1" ID straight after clearance for the studs)

The extra flow from that combination should lean it out just enough to be perfectly on point based on how black the Autolite plug is.

I also pulled it apart due to improper transportation on the sellers end. He apparently filled the tank to the too and let it run it a bit before bringing it; unfortunately the petcock was left open and it took a tumble in the bed of his truck before being restrained... no harm, no foul, just a completely full lower airbox and cylinder of gas from near BDC

Sounds like a good plan, set er up for what you need.

When i was playing with them, the only ft piston to fit that wrist pin size was a weisco, back then they were $100 jus for the piston.

It's cheaper and easier to use a clone rod and pred hemi ft piston.

Let me know how she runs for you.

Now you can give the 208 a lil break, maybe down the road put a 58mm crank in it, that'll turn it into a 223.2cc

Good luck, take care.

Racing Cams and Parts | OEM Crankshaft Assembly for Ducar 224cc & Predator 224cc Engines – 58mm Stroke | 224-1275 | DynoCams

Shop the 224-1275 OEM crankshaft assembly for Ducar 224cc engines, featuring a 1.180

www.dynocams.com

 

[Rat]

Because I'm going to have to wait a little bit to order a new 30series and a belt or any of the other stuff I'm putting it back together as I got it (mostly) but because I am in race country (less than 30 from Bristol Raceway) and there are kart racers... I'm changing the tins. I do not want the recognizable red tin (or to scrape off the stickers) I'd rather run generic blank black tins.

@BrownStainRacing there's the pilot for ya, I was able to check the main at .030

 

[Rat]

Got it started and holy crap does it shudder a lot.
I adjusted the fuel screw (it was basically all the way out) a bit and got it to even out.

If the governor doesn't stop being erratic, that POS is coming tha fuq out! I will not tolerate the herky jerky open and shut bullsh!t it's doing for too many more tries to get precise throttle response across all ranges... so I need some input.

The straight pipe I tossed together is loud AF but sounds so mean too... I almost hate saying I love how it sounds just because where I am that thing would be heard from 2mi away no problem

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Got it started and holy crap does it shudder a lot.
I adjusted the fuel screw (it was basically all the way out) a bit and got it to even out.

If the governor doesn't stop being erratic, that POS is coming tha fuq out! I will not tolerate the herky jerky open and shut bullsh!t it's doing for too many more tries to get precise throttle response across all ranges... so I need some input.

The straight pipe I tossed together is loud AF but sounds so mean too... I almost hate saying I love how it sounds just because where I am that thing would be heard from 2mi away no problem

With no load it will bounce off the gov pretty quick.
With a load, it wont be bouncing off the gov til its around 5300.

I agree, its more aggressive then a stock tiller engine governor, but still very tunable.

What rpm are you seeing this at ???

 

[Rat]

With no load it will bounce off the gov pretty quick.
With a load, it wont be bouncing off the gov til its around 5300.

I agree, its more aggressive then a stock tiller engine governor, but still very tunable.

What rpm are you seeing this at ???

Figures unloaded is the issue. I don't have a meter in it so no telling, rough guess it's just off idle.
If I manually restrain the governor arm I can tell you there's a sudden power drop right around half throttle but give it a second to push through and it jumps hard after 3/4.
It has one of those stupid autolite cross plugs which I fully intend to swap for an NGK after I cross reference the heat range for an AR 3910X FXcking resistor plugs.

I can't mess with it any further until I change the oil. Where it was flipped over and got a top end full of gas, there's more gas than oil in there now.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Figures unloaded is the issue. I don't have a meter in it so no telling, rough guess it's just off idle.
If I manually restrain the governor arm I can tell you there's a sudden power drop right around half throttle but give it a second to push through and it jumps hard after 3/4.
It has one of those stupid autolite cross plugs which I fully intend to swap for an NGK after I cross reference the heat range for an AR 3910X FXcking resistor plugs

The autolite 3910x is a cold non resistor plug.

Start out with a ngk 7 or 8, resistor or non for testing and finding bugs. I think it came with a 7 resistor from the factory.

With the low speed mix screw 2-3 full turns from seated, will be the best , that's what I see anyway.

If it runs best (snappy hole shot) more then 3 full turns out, it needs a bigger low speed jet.

If it run best, less then 2 full turns out, it needs a smaller low speed jet.

That long tube header will need some extra turning, but I'm sure you will figure it out.

You still got the pvl or swapped over to the starter flywheel ???

 

[Rat]

The autolite 3910x is a cold non resistor plug.

Start out with a ngk 7 or 8, resistor or non for testing and finding bugs. I think it came with a 7 resistor from the factory.

I've got a BP8ES in my 208 which I need to get more of anyway, dropped and broke one, so I had to grab my spare already.

With the low speed mix screw 2-3 full turns from seated, will be the best , that's what I see anyway.

I follow standard procedure,
Heat up the engine,
set a higjer idle than normal.
Soft seat, and back out by 2 full before it stalls
Count additional turns out until the rpm stops climbing
Turn back in by 1/4 turn

if over 3 increase pilot size by one and start over
if under 2 reduce pilot size by 1 and start over

as is it seems to favor 2.5 turns out

It won't start without the choke closed, but once it fires and catches it's breath gotta flip it open or I'd will shudder like all hell trying not to stall; so like it better be open in 10 seconds or less

If it runs best (snappy hole shot) more then 3 full turns out, it needs a bigger low speed jet.

If it run best, less then 2 full turns out, it needs a smaller low speed jet.

That long tube header will need some extra turning, but I'm sure you will figure it out.

You still got the pvl or swapped over to the starter flywheel ???

I put it back together exactly as I received it minus the airbox and exhaust... I don't have the parts to play with at this time and I wanted to hear it sing as well as see how gnarly yanking it's tail would be since my 208 damn near dislocated my shoulder (even with gently hunting for the compression stroke first)

There's the pipe, lol. What does the color say? I rubbed it with 400G after welding and grinding so it started from a semi-shiny uniform color (minus the tip and there's a 3 tack unfinished weld down that way)

 

[BrownStainRacing]

I've got a BP8ES in my 208 which I need to get more of anyway, dropped and broke one, so I had to grab my spare already.

I follow standard procedure,
Heat up the engine,
set a higjer idle than normal.
Soft seat, and back out by 2 full before it stalls
Count additional turns out until the rpm stops climbing
Turn back in by 1/4 turn

if over 3 increase pilot size by one and start over
if under 2 reduce pilot size by 1 and start over

as is it seems to favor 2.5 turns out

It won't start without the choke closed, but once it fires and catches it's breath gotta flip it open or I'd will shudder like all hell trying not to stall; so like it better be open in 10 seconds or less

I put it back together exactly as I received it minus the airbox and exhaust... I don't have the parts to play with at this time and I wanted to hear it sing as well as see how gnarly yanking it's tail would be since my 208 damn near dislocated my shoulder (even with gently hunting for the compression stroke first)

There's the pipe, lol. What does the color say? I rubbed it with 400G after welding and grinding so it started from a semi-shiny uniform color (minus the tip and there's a 3 tack unfinished weld down that way)

dang that sucka is looonnnggg!!!

Looks fine too me, the color is jus hot spots from the heat building up in the turns.

If the color was right after the flange, it would be too lean.

The pvl is easy to check ignition timing on. It has a line on it you use to find what * it is btdc.

If you got a degree wheel and pointer, I can walk you thur it the "quick and dirty way". No need to take the head off.

All mine start without choke.

Try this

No throttle
Ignition off
Choke on

Give it a couple short chug, chug pulls, jus to get stuff moving

Turn choke off
Turn ignition on
No throttle

Now give er yank.

The bigger the low speed jet, the easier they start. But too big will load up on you at idle, puff a lil black smoke but sounds like it's gotta nasty cam.

I keep mine idling 2000-2200 so they don't load up with fuel so quick..

 

[Rat]

dang that sucka is looonnnggg!!!

Looks fine too me, the color is jus hot spots from the heat building up in the turns.

I know lol, the flange turned a little blue but nothing like the bottom 45° bend which actually has some purple in it.

If the color was right after the flange, it would be too lean.

The pvl is easy to check ignition timing on. It has a line on it you use to find what * it is btdc.

Are you referring to the "Split" in the magnet or something else?

If you got a degree wheel and pointer, I can walk you thur it the "quick and dirty way". No need to take the head off.

I've got a couple piston stops made from spark plugs, but my "quick and dirty" is drop a 3/8x6 extension down the spark hole and depending on how much it drops turn the engine and try again until I can "wiggle out" TDC based on the extension movement.

All mine start without choke.

Try this

No throttle
Ignition off
Choke on

Give it a couple short chug, chug pulls, jus to get stuff moving

Turn choke off
Turn ignition on
No throttle

Now give er yank.

The bigger the low speed jet, the easier they start. But too big will load up on you at idle, puff a lil black smoke but sounds like it's gotta nasty cam.

I'm not doing anything until I change the gas uhhm... well it was oil

I keep mine idling 2000-2200 so they don't load up with fuel so quick..

My 208 will hold an idle at 2150 ± 50 without load up.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

I know lol, the flange turned a little blue but nothing like the bottom 45° bend which actually has some purple in it.

Are you referring to the "Split" in the magnet or something else?

I've got a couple piston stops made from spark plugs, but my "quick and dirty" is drop a 3/8x6 extension down the spark hole and depending on how much it drops turn the engine and try again until I can "wiggle out" TDC based on the extension movement.

I'm not doing anything until I change the gas uhhm... well it was oil

My 208 will hold an idle at 2150 ± 50 without load up.

Yea, it's that notch. All pvl and newer arc's have it.

With the stock key

Find tdc
Set degree wheel and pointer to 0

Roll flywheel counter clockwise wise, til that mark or notch edge lines up with the edge of top leg on the coil, the degree wheel will tell you what it is.

This ducar 224 came out to 26* with the pvl. I checked tdc with the head off and a dial indicator. I've since moved it to 29*.

You can see that mark or notch here at the edge of the coil leg.

 

[Rat]

TDC

 

[BrownStainRacing]

TDC

Thats it, between the magnets. It usally gets filled with dirt and grim, but it is a slot.

I started out using a popsicle stick in it, then roll the flywheel back til it hit the coil leg.

Set the coil air gap .045-.050" with the pvl, it's got hotter magnets in it and will fry a coil, if it's too close.

I set my pvl .065" with Dover coils.

.075" with ARC flywheels.

.035" with stock flywheel magnets.

 

[Rat]

Thats it, between the magnets. It usally gets filled with dirt and grim, but it is a slot.

I started out using a popsicle stick in it, then roll the flywheel back til it hit the coil leg.

Set the coil air gap .045-.050" with the pvl, it's got hotter magnets in it and will fry a coil, if it's too close.

I set my pvl .065" with Dover coils.

.075" with ARC flywheels.

.035" with stock flywheel magnets.

The coil is whatever Dynocams put on it, since I had it off and their recommendation is 038-040 I set it to 039 using 2 different blades on my feeler set in unison it doesn't have bigger than 035

I did do a bowl swap when I checked the main jet size (030) so it's got a deeper bowl... that shouldn't be an issue but idk maybe it is

I noticed everything on this engine has a Lazer etched number crankshaft included.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

The coil is whatever Dynocams put on it, since I had it off and their recommendation is 038-040 I set it to 039 using 2 different blades on my feeler set in unison it doesn't have bigger than 035

I did do a bowl swap when I checked the main jet size (030) so it's got a deeper bowl... that shouldn't be an issue but idk maybe it is

I noticed everything on this engine has a Lazer etched number crankshaft included.

The coil is jus stock, nothing special. Its probably got a 168f on it somewheres.

I don't see why a bigger bowl would hurt

I noticed that's numbers too.

All the ducars I've seen, every part starts with the DJ #

Idk what they mean. But they swap over with every thing else that is honda/clone sizes.