Yard Kart ID?

[JTSpeedDemon]

I've asked before, not in a dedicated thread, if anyone could identify my yard kart.
I bring this question to you again.
The PO says he worked on it with his brother as a kid, and he looked to be a middle aged man.
The Briggs was built in '85, but the PO says it's not the first engine on there.
If it helps, maybe imagine it without the janky roll hoop(which I will remove)

 

[950speed]

My best bet so far with by looking at it may be a Bird/Phoenix engineering kart

 

[Hellion]

I agree ^

A closer look at the distinctive gas and brake pedals helped clue me in. I think they use rubber pads which are missing.

This article seems pretty definitive: http://www.small-engine-projects.com/vintage-go-kart-build.htm

The author altered the 'butterfly' steering wheel which kinda blows.
But that roll hoop has got to go! This is a Bird/Phoenix Engineering kart--a piece of history...

EDIT: More info--
https://oldminibikes.com/forum/index.php?threads/phoenix-engineering-go-kart-help-identify-model.56788/

In case the links fail in the next 5-10 years, the ID would seem to be a Phoenix Engineering MASTER of MOTION "STARBIRD" model #41553

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

THANKS GUYS!!

The seat back has been moved back ~3 inches, and the PO welded in a piece of angle iron as a seat bottom support.
When they welded on the nasty roll hoop, they had to scoot the engine back, so they welded in some flat stock and cut grooves in it and the engine mounting plate, making an extended mounting plate.
I think I'll leave the angle iron and flat stock, since I want some lateral bracing to keep the frame from flexing.
In the pic is an old sales ad for it. Retailed for ~$270.
The little side pieces are long gone, as are the little front tabs, the scrub brakes have been flipped and the handbrake lever removed.
I actually think the tie rods are original!
I was right, the current rear tires are too big. Since the PO said the fronts are original(which I believe since they're rotten and the wheels are rusty), I'll eventually put 4.10/3.50-5s on the back to match the front, and bend the axle and brake shaft back.
I don't think I'll move the seat back to the original position, since I'm very tall, but it will be slightly relocated since it is basically tack welded to the roll hoop.
I think it might have the original axle, but I need to check if mine's stepped.
I think I'm lucky and this kart has never seen any deforming impacts!
What year/era do you think this is?

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

Oh yeah, and the little stone guard type things on the sides are custom.
I should probably cut them off.
This thing will be a lot lighter and look a lot smaller when I'm done with it!

 

[Hellion]

I don’t think these things were as mass produced as Manco and Ken-Bar and Carter Bros karts, because we don’t see many of these and interwebz info is so scant ..so I think they are somewhat rare.

With that, maybe you should be looking at a partial restore: welding back on the missing pieces, removing the Bubba parts etc., etc.

These old yard karts copied the layout of the first racing karts: small frames
They were meant to be small and nimble and it was grown men who first created the concept anyway, so your desire for more legroom because you’re over 6 feet tall is just your failure to adapt.

I think they found it amusing that the proper driving posture was with one’s knees in one’s chest.
Here’s the king of cool, Steve McQueen on a kart that was not designed (at first) with kids in mind:

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

I'll see if I'll fit with the seat back in the original position, but IDK.
A survivor restore sounds good to me, and of course I'm going to try to keep as many original parts as possible.

---------- Post added at 03:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 PM ----------

Also, I think this thing dates from the 80s, IDK.
Does anyone know?

 

[Hellion]

Also, I think this thing dates from the 80s, IDK. Does anyone know?

What did that other thread and other sources say?

My thinking is 1970s-1980s. Did you find a decal and/or serial # on it?


...Remind me to start going to garage sales looking for old Sears Wish Books (about 3" thick), old Montgomery Wards and other catalogs that sold go karts and minibikes to find pages like what you posted in #4.

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

I can't find which thread of mine it was, but no one could produce anything fruitful.
I actually checked today for serial numbers, etc.
One person on the interwebz said it was something like a tin sticker behind the seat back, and someone else on the interwebz said that it was something like a plate riveted to the bottom.
No go.
So I'll just say it's an 80s kart, since the PO seemed to be about the same age as my dad, 40sish, and my dad was born in the late 70s, and I highly doubt that the PO was working on it around 5 years old!

---------- Post added at 05:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:35 PM ----------

Ok, I just checked to see what the seating position would be like with the seat back in the original position, and it feels a little goofy for my long legs, but I think I can make it work.
I think it'll be more fun and significantly better looking when I purify it.
And I think it'd be really cool to have an original style handbrake lever!

 

[Hellion]

Ehh, in the end it's your kart. Do what you like with it. Sometimes good enough is better just left alone...or something like that.

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

Yeah, I'm going to purify it.
I have a neighborfriend with a lot of tools, including a Lincoln 140 Weld Pak, so I'll just use his help and pay for however many cutting discs I use. 'Cause I don't think my dad wants me to have a handheld tool spinning an 11k rpm disc.
BTW the same guy has a Datsun 240Z and 280Z, the 280's a daily, and the 240 is currently in restoration.
The cool thing about the 240 is that it's got a custom black and red paintjob with the black on the lower body, and it's got Ferrari air vents behind the front wheels!