Not to worry, I'm not looking for *that* cheap, but thank you nonetheless for the warning.
What I'm after are something like generic / low-end racing wheels or used, well-loved ones for cheap.
Vintage Margay electric drift kart build
- Thread starter JoelR
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Not to worry, I'm not looking for *that* cheap, but thank you nonetheless for the warning.
What I'm after are something like generic / low-end racing wheels or used, well-loved ones for cheap.
Prototype Battery Mount
This evening I worked on mocking up a prototype battery mount using 10-series (1") 80/20 beams sitting on the floorpan with insulated stainless steel cable clamps to secure them to the chassis tubing. When first planning this, I wanted the batteries further back but didn't see that the tab for the non-existent (front?) second master cylinder got in the way. So, I mounted them forward a couple of inches.
I learned something about the cable clamp sizing. At Home Depot, their 1" clamps (Gardner Bender brand which is sometimes pretty decent) are sold individually, cost over $2 each, aren't stainless steel and don't actually have a 1" diameter hole (main chassis tubing is 1") when closed. So, Amazon to the rescue, I ordered 20 1.25" cable clamps for $13.99...but they're too big. So, I ordered the 1" size and am hopeful that they'll actually fit.
I added 90 degree gusseted brackets to the 80/20 beam so I had something to secure zip ties to and to serve as stops (like bookends) on the beam to hold the controller which will also be secured with a zip tie. I don't have a good picture of this, sorry.
I think the zip ties securing the batteries down looks a little cheesy but it'll work.
Next I played around with the layout of the circuit breaker and the terminal block. I want to use the circuit breaker as the on/off switch for the system so it needs to be within easy reach. The cables going into the terminal block are stiff and feisty (NOT how I like my women) so I'll need to find a solution to wrangle these into submission, perhaps using a small piece of plastic to mount onto. I'm not sure if mounting directly onto the battery is a good idea. I'd like to keep the batteries unencumbered so they can be swapped out if needed without "rebuilding" the kart's wiring system. While writing this it occurred to me that a combination of velcro or nylon straps that feed through a top-of-battery hold-down bar/plate/etc. could solve my cheesy zip tie issue and give me a surface to mount things onto.
Last up, a picture of the engine mount (still not the best lighting, sorry Sid). I'm not sure if this mount was custom made to fit a Briggs & Stratton or if it's original (I'm assuming it came with a 2-stroke McCulloch-type engine like I saw in a Youtube video). The welds aren't exactly pretty and there are only 4 holes that correspond to the B&S 5HP it had when I got it. I do like the adjustability for chain tension it provides. I noticed there's a feature to allow a bolt/threaded rod to adjust the tension but this was removed and tension is achieved by pushing the engine and tightening the pinch bolts underneath.
It's starting to come together! This will be my last update for a few days since I'll be traveling over the weekend. It'll be hard to put this down for a bit!
This evening I worked on mocking up a prototype battery mount using 10-series (1") 80/20 beams sitting on the floorpan with insulated stainless steel cable clamps to secure them to the chassis tubing. When first planning this, I wanted the batteries further back but didn't see that the tab for the non-existent (front?) second master cylinder got in the way. So, I mounted them forward a couple of inches.
I learned something about the cable clamp sizing. At Home Depot, their 1" clamps (Gardner Bender brand which is sometimes pretty decent) are sold individually, cost over $2 each, aren't stainless steel and don't actually have a 1" diameter hole (main chassis tubing is 1") when closed. So, Amazon to the rescue, I ordered 20 1.25" cable clamps for $13.99...but they're too big. So, I ordered the 1" size and am hopeful that they'll actually fit.
I added 90 degree gusseted brackets to the 80/20 beam so I had something to secure zip ties to and to serve as stops (like bookends) on the beam to hold the controller which will also be secured with a zip tie. I don't have a good picture of this, sorry.
I think the zip ties securing the batteries down looks a little cheesy but it'll work.
Next I played around with the layout of the circuit breaker and the terminal block. I want to use the circuit breaker as the on/off switch for the system so it needs to be within easy reach. The cables going into the terminal block are stiff and feisty (NOT how I like my women) so I'll need to find a solution to wrangle these into submission, perhaps using a small piece of plastic to mount onto. I'm not sure if mounting directly onto the battery is a good idea. I'd like to keep the batteries unencumbered so they can be swapped out if needed without "rebuilding" the kart's wiring system. While writing this it occurred to me that a combination of velcro or nylon straps that feed through a top-of-battery hold-down bar/plate/etc. could solve my cheesy zip tie issue and give me a surface to mount things onto.
Last up, a picture of the engine mount (still not the best lighting, sorry Sid). I'm not sure if this mount was custom made to fit a Briggs & Stratton or if it's original (I'm assuming it came with a 2-stroke McCulloch-type engine like I saw in a Youtube video). The welds aren't exactly pretty and there are only 4 holes that correspond to the B&S 5HP it had when I got it. I do like the adjustability for chain tension it provides. I noticed there's a feature to allow a bolt/threaded rod to adjust the tension but this was removed and tension is achieved by pushing the engine and tightening the pinch bolts underneath.
It's starting to come together! This will be my last update for a few days since I'll be traveling over the weekend. It'll be hard to put this down for a bit!
Last edited:
coming along nicely 
Wheels: the best advice I could give you is to set a search request for "aluminium kart wheels" on ebay an/or CL and such.
Don't focus too much on the 1" axle part.. you might need hubs in the end, maybe hubs for metric wheels (since the italians spit out karts and wheels like crazy)
Orrr just go to the source.. find a racing track, see if they have a blackboard you can pin a search request to and wait.
'sid
Wheels: the best advice I could give you is to set a search request for "aluminium kart wheels" on ebay an/or CL and such.
Don't focus too much on the 1" axle part.. you might need hubs in the end, maybe hubs for metric wheels (since the italians spit out karts and wheels like crazy)
Orrr just go to the source.. find a racing track, see if they have a blackboard you can pin a search request to and wait.
'sid
Batteries wired up and mounted
After an unpleasant Amazon experience involving a non-delivery of the crimping tool I ordered, I ended up buying one locally at Home Depot, a Klein 3005cr (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-Ratcheting-Crimper-3005CR/306884697) I had a very difficult time getting the Wirefy connectors to crimp securely. I contacted Wirefy by phone and someone picked up the phone, listened to the problems I was having and concluded that I needed their crimping tool instead. He then offered to send one free of charge (which I think is about $30!!). I have since learned that the Klein tool I purchased is *not* designed for heat shrink connectors, just insulated.
In the meantime while waiting for the right tool to arrive, I developed a method that worked okay -- double crimp using the yellow die, then once with the blue die (which punctured the shrink insulation a little bit). I used some Panduit brand insulated ring-type connectors I had for connecting to the terminal block and circuit breaker and in this case, the Klein tool worked absolutely perfectly--love it!
When hooking up the power wires to the controller, I was ready to install the provided connector but opted to cut off the controller-side plug and attach ring-type connectors. I'd love to hear thoughts about whether this was a good move or not. I can see some benefit to being able to unplug the power to the controller but felt that the breaker switch can be used as an emergency shut-off/disconnect. I should add that I contacted Alfa Wheels about the corresponding connectors for the controller to allow easy, modular connections for switches, throttle, etc. and he's sending me a kit free of charge--nice guy!
While waiting for my throttle to arrive (forgot to actually PURCHASE what was in my shopping kart @ ElectricScooterParts.com - doh!), and for the connectors to arrive from Alfa Wheels, I'll remount the rear sprocket, shorten the chain, put the wheel/tire back on, flush and bleed the brakes and whatever else needs attention to get the kart ready for a first test ride soon.
After an unpleasant Amazon experience involving a non-delivery of the crimping tool I ordered, I ended up buying one locally at Home Depot, a Klein 3005cr (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-Ratcheting-Crimper-3005CR/306884697) I had a very difficult time getting the Wirefy connectors to crimp securely. I contacted Wirefy by phone and someone picked up the phone, listened to the problems I was having and concluded that I needed their crimping tool instead. He then offered to send one free of charge (which I think is about $30!!). I have since learned that the Klein tool I purchased is *not* designed for heat shrink connectors, just insulated.
In the meantime while waiting for the right tool to arrive, I developed a method that worked okay -- double crimp using the yellow die, then once with the blue die (which punctured the shrink insulation a little bit). I used some Panduit brand insulated ring-type connectors I had for connecting to the terminal block and circuit breaker and in this case, the Klein tool worked absolutely perfectly--love it!
When hooking up the power wires to the controller, I was ready to install the provided connector but opted to cut off the controller-side plug and attach ring-type connectors. I'd love to hear thoughts about whether this was a good move or not. I can see some benefit to being able to unplug the power to the controller but felt that the breaker switch can be used as an emergency shut-off/disconnect. I should add that I contacted Alfa Wheels about the corresponding connectors for the controller to allow easy, modular connections for switches, throttle, etc. and he's sending me a kit free of charge--nice guy!
While waiting for my throttle to arrive (forgot to actually PURCHASE what was in my shopping kart @ ElectricScooterParts.com - doh!), and for the connectors to arrive from Alfa Wheels, I'll remount the rear sprocket, shorten the chain, put the wheel/tire back on, flush and bleed the brakes and whatever else needs attention to get the kart ready for a first test ride soon.
two side crimping is the worst!
I know, I suffer from some of those myself, and an electrician friend of mine then explained that it's not even "legal" in europe any longer for other than hobbyists.
He then borrowed me one of his crimping tools..
Proper four sided self adjusting crimping ...
Night and day difference!
Rock solid crimps without any second thought..
looked up the pliers and saw a three figure pricetag
and it's a strict end terminal plier (no ring, no fork, no spades...)
So I though about this one to get myself:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-MINI-T...or-Ferrules-Four-Sided-0-25-6mm-/183350461839
surely not the same quality as the one he has.. but it looks like it does the job (for me at least)
there are also hexagonal crimping pliers but IDK if they're much better
so I haven't decided which one to go with really.
https://www.amazon.com/IWISS-Hexagonal-Self-adjusting-End-sleeves-Ferrules-Orange/dp/B00H950AK4
Anyways, two sided isn't good at all..
even expensive pliers usually leave a less than perfect crimp.
Now ring terminals on controller instead of connector plugs..
I'm not a fan!
Not because they're less reliable (I think the connection itself is as sound)
it's the "reversability" that can cause a problem in the setups later life.
when you need to replace a part and disconnect the ring terminals again,
you meed to find a way to make sure to not conenct them in reverse;
you'd instantly fry the controller (in case it doesn't have internal protection against reversed polarity)
And while you might be aware.. the "next owner" might not..
Not your problem .. I agree;
but not a "professionally looking setup" either IMHO
'sid
I know, I suffer from some of those myself, and an electrician friend of mine then explained that it's not even "legal" in europe any longer for other than hobbyists.
He then borrowed me one of his crimping tools..
Proper four sided self adjusting crimping ...
Night and day difference!
Rock solid crimps without any second thought..
looked up the pliers and saw a three figure pricetag
and it's a strict end terminal plier (no ring, no fork, no spades...)
So I though about this one to get myself:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-MINI-T...or-Ferrules-Four-Sided-0-25-6mm-/183350461839
surely not the same quality as the one he has.. but it looks like it does the job (for me at least)
there are also hexagonal crimping pliers but IDK if they're much better
so I haven't decided which one to go with really.
https://www.amazon.com/IWISS-Hexagonal-Self-adjusting-End-sleeves-Ferrules-Orange/dp/B00H950AK4
Anyways, two sided isn't good at all..
even expensive pliers usually leave a less than perfect crimp.
Now ring terminals on controller instead of connector plugs..
I'm not a fan!
Not because they're less reliable (I think the connection itself is as sound)
it's the "reversability" that can cause a problem in the setups later life.
when you need to replace a part and disconnect the ring terminals again,
you meed to find a way to make sure to not conenct them in reverse;
you'd instantly fry the controller (in case it doesn't have internal protection against reversed polarity)
And while you might be aware.. the "next owner" might not..
Not your problem .. I agree;
but not a "professionally looking setup" either IMHO
'sid
Wiring complete & more proof of real science
It's been a while but I have been steadily chipping away...
After the advice of several members, thank you, I swapped the plug on my charger from the provided C-13 style (typically used in AC applications) for XT60 most commonly used in LiPO batteries. My rationale: If I went with XLR, there was a possibility of accidental use of the 48v charger on my kids' 24v Razor carts. I have nothing else that uses the XT60 connector so the risk at our place of misuse is pretty low.
Now, the risk of me getting overconfident / under cautious is/was pretty real--after soldering up the XT60s, I asked myself "Should I check the polarity?"
I now know the correct answer would have been "Yes, just to be sure, smart guy." When I plugged in the charger, an impressive flash and shower of molten metal rained onto my battery pack (and little bits melted into the top of the case) as I stood there in shock, confusion and denial. Turns out I mistakenly swapped the polarity on the charger side XT60 during the soldering operation. The brand new charger *did not* survive the incident, unfortunately, but everything else seems fine.
While waiting for another charger to arrive, I turned my attention to a minimal set of switches for basic operation, e.g. the "key lock" and the "reverse" (because my motor runs in reverse by default). Alfa Wheels sent me the corresponding connectors so I could easily hook these up. One problem however is that as I was tidying up the wiring, securing w/zip ties, etc. I noticed that the reverse plug isn't making a reliable connection so that might need some attention--vibration could make this a real nuisance. The switch console is attached using an existing hole in the frame and the angle *almost* matches the forward tilt of the steering support to put the controls in a nearly horizontal position which was a nice bonus. This also keeps the switches, especially the metal one, from aiming straight back at a part of my body I'd rather not impale in a shunt.
With the controller controls sorted out, I'm moving onto the throttle linkage. The Margay kart has a pretty substantial linkage that lines up nicely with the hall-effect cable pull throttle I got. I enlarged one of the holes on the throttle slightly and put a button-head cap screw through an existing tab to hold the throttle securely in place along the "pull" axis and used a zip tie to secure it to the frame. I'm looking into solutions to connect the kart linkage to the cable. Suggestions welcomed here.
I borrowed a chain breaker tool from a dirt bike owner but found that the pin is too large to push out the #35 pin. Got a favorite multi-size chain breaker tool?
Getting close!
It's been a while but I have been steadily chipping away...
After the advice of several members, thank you, I swapped the plug on my charger from the provided C-13 style (typically used in AC applications) for XT60 most commonly used in LiPO batteries. My rationale: If I went with XLR, there was a possibility of accidental use of the 48v charger on my kids' 24v Razor carts. I have nothing else that uses the XT60 connector so the risk at our place of misuse is pretty low.
Now, the risk of me getting overconfident / under cautious is/was pretty real--after soldering up the XT60s, I asked myself "Should I check the polarity?"
I now know the correct answer would have been "Yes, just to be sure, smart guy." When I plugged in the charger, an impressive flash and shower of molten metal rained onto my battery pack (and little bits melted into the top of the case) as I stood there in shock, confusion and denial. Turns out I mistakenly swapped the polarity on the charger side XT60 during the soldering operation. The brand new charger *did not* survive the incident, unfortunately, but everything else seems fine.While waiting for another charger to arrive, I turned my attention to a minimal set of switches for basic operation, e.g. the "key lock" and the "reverse" (because my motor runs in reverse by default). Alfa Wheels sent me the corresponding connectors so I could easily hook these up. One problem however is that as I was tidying up the wiring, securing w/zip ties, etc. I noticed that the reverse plug isn't making a reliable connection so that might need some attention--vibration could make this a real nuisance. The switch console is attached using an existing hole in the frame and the angle *almost* matches the forward tilt of the steering support to put the controls in a nearly horizontal position which was a nice bonus. This also keeps the switches, especially the metal one, from aiming straight back at a part of my body I'd rather not impale in a shunt.
With the controller controls sorted out, I'm moving onto the throttle linkage. The Margay kart has a pretty substantial linkage that lines up nicely with the hall-effect cable pull throttle I got. I enlarged one of the holes on the throttle slightly and put a button-head cap screw through an existing tab to hold the throttle securely in place along the "pull" axis and used a zip tie to secure it to the frame. I'm looking into solutions to connect the kart linkage to the cable. Suggestions welcomed here.
I borrowed a chain breaker tool from a dirt bike owner but found that the pin is too large to push out the #35 pin. Got a favorite multi-size chain breaker tool?
Getting close!
JTSpeedDemon
2019 Build Off Winner!
I use the one chain size breaker from OMB Warehouse, and it works great! It did have some casting flaws, with some of the metal cast onto the pin threads, so I had to break the pins free and file down the defects.
Otherwise great!
Otherwise great!
JTSpeedDemon
2019 Build Off Winner!
Functional Artist
Well-known member
Very nice job!
Sucks about the charger
...but, I've done it too
Now, I always double check
Sucks about the charger
...but, I've done it too
Now, I always double check
Done for now
I got the XT60 connector added to the new charger, charged the battery, drove the kart around a bit and...realized it puts a big strain on my injured arm (torn tendon) so I need to take a break from driving it a few weeks. Bummer.
I'll continue trying to source other wheels/tires and a seat (dunno for whom this original seat was designed but it's far from comfortable for me).
I got the XT60 connector added to the new charger, charged the battery, drove the kart around a bit and...realized it puts a big strain on my injured arm (torn tendon) so I need to take a break from driving it a few weeks. Bummer.
I'll continue trying to source other wheels/tires and a seat (dunno for whom this original seat was designed but it's far from comfortable for me).
JTSpeedDemon
2019 Build Off Winner!
Ouch, that sucks.
Just last night I sprained my pinky toe and it HURTS!!
Nice job! Did you get it to drift? Any plans for paint?
Just last night I sprained my pinky toe and it HURTS!!
Nice job! Did you get it to drift? Any plans for paint?
I got it to slide a bit but the current setup has way more rear grip and too little power to do much drifting.
I hadn't planned on painting, chipped and ugly as it is, since I'm not trying to do a restoration. I'm just using the kart chassis as a platform to tinker with electric drive systems.
I hadn't planned on painting, chipped and ugly as it is, since I'm not trying to do a restoration. I'm just using the kart chassis as a platform to tinker with electric drive systems.
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