Tillotson 212 help (for a noob)

[Pro Procrastinator]

Ok so I have a go kart project that's been going for about 5 yrs now. I have a 212cc Tillotson engine (not the electric start one), and its giving me trouble. The other day I was experimenting with throttle linkage and I fired it up and it immediately began revving continuously and consistently. No matter what position the throttle arm is in and even if I hold it down with all my strength the engine still revs. I held it in full position and looked underneath the gas tank and saw that the governor arm was moving up and down - all by itself. Like the butterfly is legit being pushed back and forth without me doing anything. Took it to a bike mechanic and he looked at me like he didn't give a crap abt some kids homemade gk lol...He did say he thought it was a carb issue but as I am a noob I have no clue where to go from there...Anyone know how to fix the issue??
Also I unfortunately can't provide vids.

 

[karl]

Welcome! So to clarify , you only had issues after tweaking on things?

What did you want to achieve?

Can you post a few photos of the linkage, and/or where you were modifying it?

Help us help you! Also most bike mechanics will struggle to fix a lawn mower,
or just don't care to. Different skill set. Don't be discouraged!

 

[Pro Procrastinator]

Yes, only had trouble after modifying it...which likely means that I accidentally altered something. Then again the engine has been sitting around for quite a while without use so that may be a contributing factor. No linkage of any kind is on there right now. All I did was hook up a bicycle cable to the cable stop to test the power of the return spring. I did take off the entire air filter thingy quite a few times and also took off the muffler at least 3 times. I started it once without the muffler on sounds like a beast bwahaha. I never touched the gas tank or the governor tho so idk. I did also take off the entire throttle arm tho, to do so I had to unhook a spring (think it mighta been the governor spring). I did put the spring back on exactly how I thought it had been but it was likely this that caused it to go out of wack. Unfortunately I can't upload pics tonight...may have to wait until tmrw or so.

 

[Jims83cj5]

Yes, only had trouble after modifying it...which likely means that I accidentally altered something. Then again the engine has been sitting around for quite a while without use so that may be a contributing factor. No linkage of any kind is on there right now. All I did was hook up a bicycle cable to the cable stop to test the power of the return spring. I did take off the entire air filter thingy quite a few times and also took off the muffler at least 3 times. I started it once without the muffler on sounds like a beast bwahaha. I never touched the gas tank or the governor tho so idk. I did also take off the entire throttle arm tho, to do so I had to unhook a spring (think it mighta been the governor spring). I did put the spring back on exactly how I thought it had been but it was likely this that caused it to go out of wack. Unfortunately I can't upload pics tonight...may have to wait until tmrw or so.

I’d google the break down of the linkage set up and hook it back up the way is supposed to be. Those springs can get you mixed up. Btw always take pics before things come apart. You’ll get it, they are pretty simple once you do it a few times

 

[madprofessor]

I had to unhook a spring (think it mighta been the governor spring).

I'd guess that the spring is required to keep the throttle pulled back, and you didn't hook it back up that way. Sounds like it's running so wide open that the governor has to come into play to keep the rpm down, hence the wagging movement of it.

 

[Pro Procrastinator]

Thanks for the advice! I'll try both suggestions and let you know what happens.

 

[Pro Procrastinator]

This is the throttle setup on the engine. It was this I removed entirely and then replaced. That's likely where things went downhill lol.

 

[Pro Procrastinator]

Yikes, I just fired it up and 3 more problems come up.
1. A crazy amount of blueish/whiteish smoke poured out of the muffler. It usually just gives a few puffs when being started and that's all. This time however, it did it continuously and wouldn't stop/diminish throughout the entire run time (which was about a minute). Neighbors are gonna hate me now lol there's fumes everywhere.
2. It wouldn't run off the choke. The minute I tried to turn the choke off the engine died.
3. The muffler started spewing oil/gas like crazy so I shut it off quick because everything nearby was getting showered the the hot stuff.
It looks like the engine is flooded or smtg. Any ideas on how to fix this?

 

[Pro Procrastinator]

Pictures of the engine after starting...oil is everywhere. What the heck is happening. It really does look as if oil has gotten into the header. You can't tell in the picture, but smoke is still billowing from the muffler AFTER the engine was shut off.

 

[ezcome-ezgo]

1) Too much oil or it has been resting in a non vertical position. Drain the crankcase and refill properly with fresh happy oil. Burning oil is what you described, "blueish/whiteish smoke ".
2) Only runs with choke on is a sign of an engine starved for fuel. Could be related to the oil, or not.
3) The throttle/governor linkage has been molested and needs to be restored. Look for pictures of what it should look like, or post pics of what you've got here.

 

[Pro Procrastinator]

What oil should I use? I don't have Tillotson T4, the engine came pre-filled.
Ok, I will do that. If the problem persists then I will post pics of the throttle linkage on it.

 

[Jims83cj5]

How hi did it rev and for how long after you unhooked the govenor? for It to smoke because it was not level then the engine would need to be tipped to the point the crankcase oil would seep past the rings to above the piston but if it was not hydro locked on oil then it would burn off in less than a minute. If it was so over full that you burned oil then you would never reach rpm and take out the crank. I am not familular with the engines you guys refer to but they look just like a OHV Briggs and Stratto, some of those here have valve seals. A blow out valve seal can cause oil burn but not usually to that extent. Check your compression. if it’s good let it run, to see if it burns. I do doubt that it’s good as a minute at high rpm is a long time to burn off seeped oil. Good luck

 

[Pro Procrastinator]

I never started it without the governor spring. Governor is not removed inside the crank case either. It has been in several vehicles multiple times as they were going up very steep hills...Once or twice I would open the back of the vehicle it was in to find that the engine was tipped on its side...that's the only other thing I can think of but its likely that didn't help lol. If I empty the oil and refill and then start it with the air filter off will that help to burn off excess stuff inside?
Ok thank you. I will check the compression as advised. I may not be able to do it until later though.

 

[Jims83cj5]

I never started it without the governor spring. Governor is not removed inside the crank case either. It has been in several vehicles multiple times as they were going up very steep hills...Once or twice I would open the back of the vehicle it was in to find that the engine was tipped on its side...that's the only other thing I can think of but its likely that didn't help lol. If I empty the oil and refill and then start it with the air filter off will that help to burn off excess stuff inside?
Ok thank you. I will check the compression as advised. I may not be able to do it until later though.

Ya, check the compression if you have tools if not, let er buck it will soon tell you what’s wrong. They certainly will smoke depending on what side it was laying on But start it and let it run, if it continues for a while and does it again on each start up, it’s sick. Easy enough to fix. An engine hone will usually be enough with a re ring unless it’s out of round. Hondas and their knock offs don’t like being out of round much but a Briggs will almost run square lol

 

[Pro Procrastinator]

Removed the air filter and let her run. After 3rd time starting it no longer lets out blue smoke or spits oil. Still does the revving thing though...the minute I come off the choke the governor arm is moving up and down - and it's become even more pronounced. Personally I would remove the crank case and take off the governor entirely but I have been advised not to so until it gets to a mechanic I guess it just stays like that. It's def a governor issue and not something wrong with the carb then? I would prefer to not have to replace it but if it needs to be then it needs to be I guess.

 

[Jims83cj5]

That’s great news!!! One thing fixed already

 

[Pro Procrastinator]

Yeah ikr.
Now to get this beast to a mechanic. Hoping to have the kart running by summer 2023.

 

[Pro Procrastinator]

I'm now 99% sure that the revving thing is caused by the governor and not a car issue. I could be wrong, as I'm no expert.

On a hunch, I removed the gas tank and bypassed the governor using the zip tie method (taping over the governor spring so it becomes useless) and started the engine. It ran perfectly, no revving when I came off the choke. Only started to rev again when the vibrations loosened the tape on the governor spring and then it started moving up and down again.

One of the pros here could correct me if I'm wrong, but will taking off the crank case cover and removing the governor entirely fix the problem?

 

[redflash]

most likely

Da redflash

 

[madprofessor]

will taking off the crank case cover and removing the governor entirely fix the problem?

Since all of the internal action of the governor setup gets translated directly to the outside of the case to manipulate the externals, ie; throttle linkage, there's no functional change it would make if you effectively lock out the governor linkage externally with zipties or whatever.
What you must concern your thoughts with is how the motor will react internally when the internal bits and parts of the governor come apart to take naps between all the other moving parts in there just because they were left in there with that danger.