Surging, no acceleration Briggs Fun Power 5HP

[Hellion]

Is the Predator reliable?

Only until the warranty expires. Then it's garbage. Of course it's reliable, we love it here (there's probably 10K threads on the topic here). It is second only to a Honda GX200 for all intents and purposes. Even at $149.99 it is a bargain.

It is like the only small OHV engine, besides Honda, that has a devoted aftermarket hop-up parts line; Predator this and Predator that. You don't see that for the low cost Ironton motors from Northern Tool for instance. In fact I can't find that brand anymore.

 

[daveofds]

The engine code (I mentioned in the other thread) would help but in general the carburetor gaskets fall under the part numbers of:

495606 Kit, Carburetor Overhaul
494624 Carburetor Kit

Both of these sets, on Amazon for example, contain a lot of parts intended for the earlier Pulsa-Jet carburetor as well as the latter so you may get a lot of parts and extras you don't need (yet) but it's often better than buying them one at a time and paying a lot more per piece, plus shipping ...

I use sites like this only to get the parts numbers:

Briggs & Stratton Parts Diagrams

Repair your Briggs and Stratton engine using our way to use Briggs Parts Diagrams. Look up parts using your model, type and code number. Use our live chat if you need help!

www.propartsdirect.net

->-> https://www.propartsdirect.net/brig...026-E1/Carburetor_Group/1362121026E1/07050008

This is my carburetor. I see no link from Throttle control to anywhere on the carb. The throttle arm (butterfly valve actuator) is only tied to the linkage to the governor. I see a throttle link in the diagram you referenced (similar carb, but different model and type) that I do not have, but I am at a loss to figure out where it would attach. I can only reach higher RPMs by manually turning the throttle valve on top of the carb with the rear wheels lifted off the floor.

I reassembled everything today, started it up and rode it briefly before it died. It would not reach peak RPM. Bogging often. Died twice. RPM’s mostly not adequate to engage TAV 30 drive.

As I mentioned the only force from flooring the accelerator is from the spring that eventually exerts a downward force on the governor arm. I don’t believe I lost any parts when I disassembled the carb. I suppose something could have fallen off in transit home. I did have to disassemble the Kart to get it home, but the engine rode upright during transit (2 day trip from Northern Minnesota to Central Texas). The kart did run just fine up there, until the primary sprocket broke. I replaced the TAV 30, had to file some wider holes where the engine mounts and raise the engine 2 inches to get the sprockets to line up, then shorten the chain. Now I just need the engine to run again as it once did.

I am beginning to wonder if there is some other problem with the engine. I replaced a carb on my riding mower over a year ago and did see there is an interplay between governor and throttle with a spring as the link. So not too surprised there is no direct linkage from throttle actuator/pedal/lever to the carb throttle body.

 

[Hellion]

You're just looking at an exploded parts view of one component, devoid of a lot of interconnecting parts, so there's not much to see there. I linked you the correct carburetor but on a slightly different engine, anyway it is a horrible drawing to learn from. I will say they are high IQ diagrams! Sorry this engine is whooping your butt, but it does run, it does start so the 4 conditions necessary for internal combustion; fuel/spark/compression/timing are being satisfied.

You are correct there is no direct link between the throttle control (turtle and rabbit lever or gas pedal) and the carburetor. You are actually controlling the governor which controls the carb. It is that way on darn near ALL of them. In fact show me a small industrial engine that does not have one.... There is a Briggs Raptor Throttle Control that, although for the earlier Pulsa Jet (adjustable-jet version), can be adapted to your carb (fixed-jet version) but it's not drop-in.

There might be a problem with the engine and it might be the governor arm on the engine where it enters the block. The nut on the arm must be loosened and the rod in the middle must be turned (counter clockwise I think) until it stops, and then the nut on the arm must be tightened down at the same time, keeping counter clockwise pressure on the rod.

Kudos to you for keeping at it this long. Most people are stupid and impatient and fall prey to the "just buy a Predator 212!" mantra. Then when it fails to start, they buy another.
I feel however that you are about to succumb because ... ain't nobody got time for that!

 

[Minimichael]

I'd like to see more pictures. Like where your pedal cable connects to the carb or whatever. Setting up this governor "correctly" would seem an exaggeration here. After all, you're seeking higher rpms and you just shouldn't want the governor armature putting up much of a fight over it. Try a heartier spring on your throttle side, with a stretchy and more boingy spring tugging from the gov.

 

[Hellion]

I have reviewed and I believe the thick governor rod serves no (real) purpose on a Fun Power Briggs engine. That thick rod is standard on all stationary type engines (which the Fun Power technically is); such as a garden tiller for example, where the throttle is remotely controlled by a stiff wire cable and lever on the operator's handle or via the engine controls mounted on the gas tank. Both of these throttle types need that thick rod to activate the governor controller under the fuel tank which pushes or see-saws the other thinner rod up and down---The thinner rod connects to the black plastic bellcrank on the side of the carb and activates the butterfly on top of the carburetor. The thin rod is the clincher and most important.

Factory go karts (and minibikes) that used the Fun Power bypassed most of that confusion by connecting the throttle under the fuel tank. I think the thicker rod is needed because garden tillers and snowblowers *pull the throttle/governor control in a different direction, so it is just a linkage to the linkage..... I think. *See Fig 52-56 in the picture below.

I have found no really useful photos because the whole affair is hidden between the block and the fuel tank. Better to view a video AND one that is provided by a repairman and not some amateur. There may be better ones out there and in higher res than this 240p or whatever but it is okay:

A possibly useless picture...

 

[Edwin Spangler]

Is the Predator reliable? I am looking at one and hoping for a sale at Harbor Freight. Hopefully tariffs won’t cause the price to rise before then!

Theyre the best!

 

[daveofds]

Predator 212c—$100
intake carb—$40
China flywheel/sidecover—$80

Make a heck of a lot of power with that setup.
Or do what I did and build a Briggs to the hills so you can be disappointed with the power it‘s not making.

Doesn’t matter how much epoxy you use you can ramp and raise then move the ports to wherever you want them. They are gutless and expensive.

I know this isn’t what the thread is about or what you want to hear but I really wish I would of spent all the cash I did on a 212View attachment 157900View attachment 157901View attachment 157903

So the pics are of an old B&S flathead! Hard to recognize. Besides the flat head of course!

 

[daveofds]

I have reviewed and I believe the thick governor rod serves no (real) purpose on a Fun Power Briggs engine. It is standard on all stationary type engines (which the Fun Power technically is); such as a garden tiller for example, where the throttle is remotely controlled by a stiff wire cable and lever on the operator's handles or via the engine controls mounted on the gas tank. Both of these throttle types need that thick rod to activate the governor controller under the fuel tank which pushes or see-saws the other thinner rod up and down---The thinner rod connects to the black plastic bellcrank on the side of the carb and activates the butterfly on top of the carburetor.

Go karts bypass that by having the throttle connected under the fuel tank.

I have found no really useful photos because the whole affair is hidden between the block and the fuel tank. Better to view a video AND one that is provided by a repairman and not some amateur. There may be better ones out there and in higher res than this 240p or whatever but it is okay:

A possibly useless picture...

View attachment 157956

I haven’t gone through all the videos yet, but this guy is for real. Seen several of his videos. Really likes the old engines.

IS there a way I can bypass the governor on my engine? What are the risks, if any? Perhaps there is a way to directly link the throttle with the lever for the butterfly valve on the center of the carb? I suppose I could somehow reconfigure the links to do this. What would I do with the governor afterwards?

Anyone done this? Any help appreciated.

I really don’t want to sink a lot of money in this and I like the slightly underpowered state it is/will be in. My grandkids are going to want to ride this and speed is not a priority. I have the 10 tooth sprocket on theTav 30 to prioritize torque. This is an off road cart after all.

Thanks in advace

 

[Hellion]

I'd like to see more pictures. Like where your pedal cable connects…….

Yeah we’re basically devoid of photos of his kart.

So the pics are of an old B&S flathead! Hard to recognize. Besides the flat head of course!

Right. He has some speed parts added, a stiffer stronger billet sump cover (which probably has a nice ball bearing) and the finless cylinder head which I think is used in short course racing, like drag racing where fan cooling is superfluous because the engine doesn't run long enough. And the rest of the speed parts you see. He can tell you more.

Pretty sure Briggs lead the way on small industrial 4-stroke flathead engines adapted to racing, which lead to the Raptor series. They were turning about 10K revs on methanol. People still race them but the Briggs Animal took over.

 

[Sparkwizard]

If this engine is a Briggs model 13 flathead, it is extremely simple to "bypass" the governor by installing this kit.

Briggs Raptor Throttle Kit

Briggs & Stratton Raptor Throttle Linkage Kit - For use on ungoverned engines with a billet flywheel in racing applications.

www.ombwarehouse.com

 

[Hellion]

Oh yes, the whole forum is [unofficially] dedicated to governor removal/governor bypass. Faster-faster-faster! You can disconnect the governor and run a cable directly to the "butterfly" and it will work, but most go into the crankcase and remove the whole assembly (which is a gear with centrifugal weights on it) and the paddle arm and the outside lever arm and then plug the hole in the crankcase with a 1/4" screw. The internal surgery (an appendectomy?) is highly recommended because the governor gear is basically rated to 3600 RPM maximum (and it is connected to the camshaft and will always be turning regardless if it is connected to the linkages or not).

I'm an advocate for retaining the governor for the youngsters, for yard kart use and situations where you want the engine to last longer.

If this engine is a Briggs model 13 flathead, it is extremely simple to "bypass" the governor by installing this kit.

Briggs Raptor Throttle Kit

Briggs & Stratton Raptor Throttle Linkage Kit - For use on ungoverned engines with a billet flywheel in racing applications.

www.ombwarehouse.com

Sadly that throttle kit is intended for the earlier adjustable jet Pulsa-Jet carburetors (also used on Raptors) which, although basically the same as the latter one that David has, is configured slightly different (different geometry). Best way to recognize the adjustable jet carb is the slide choke on the rear of the carb body and the air cleaner retainer which is a single screw coming out of the middle of the carb intake.

I've used it though but I had to adapt it to fit.

The OMB fine print and a review by Eric D:

 

[Hellion]

The two carbs and theory of operation (love this site):

I was wrong, one of the adjustable jet variants has a rotary/butterfly style choke (the red carb) *they are not all slide chokes:

Disassembly, Cleaning and Repair of Briggs Tank-mounted Pulsa-jet Adjustable Carburetor

outdoorpowerinfo.com

Fixed Jet carbs:

Disassembly, Cleaning and Repair of Briggs Tank-mounted Pulsa-jet Fixed-jet Small Well Carburetor

outdoorpowerinfo.com

 

[daveofds]

Oh yes, the whole forum is [unofficially] dedicated to governor removal/governor bypass. Faster-faster-faster! You can disconnect the governor and run a cable directly to the "butterfly" and it will work, but most go into the crankcase and remove the whole assembly (which is a gear with centrifugal weights on it) and the paddle arm and the outside lever arm and then plug the hole in the crankcase with a 1/4" screw. The internal surgery (an appendectomy?) is highly recommended because the governor gear is basically rated to 3600 RPM maximum (and it is connected to the camshaft and will always be turning regardless if it is connected to the linkages or not).

I'm an advocate for retaining the governor for the youngsters, for yard kart use and situations where you want the engine to last longer.



Sadly that throttle kit is intended for the earlier adjustable jet Pulsa-Jet carburetors (also used on Raptors) which, although basically the same as the latter one that David has, is configured slightly different (different geometry). Best way to recognize the adjustable jet carb is the slide choke on the rear of the carb body and the air cleaner retainer which is a single screw coming out of the middle of the carb intake.

I've used it though but I had to adapt it to fit.

The OMB fine print and a review by Eric D:

View attachment 157962
View attachment 157963

Yes, the Air filter blocks this application. Little to no space between filter box and head. A rigged linkage system may be dangerous, but I am open to trying one if feasible.

 

[Hellion]

Skip the Briggs Raptor Throttle Kit and check out this direct-to-carb throttle setup devised by Kentucky Boy (post #15):
*Same carburetor as yours.

New Purchase: Old Streaker

Been looking for another project kart to restore. Found an old Streaker Pace Setter. Paid $150 for it. It's in pretty good shape structurally. Has a brand new Predator Hemi on it. Needs new front wheels and all new tires. I still am trying to decide if I want to keep the one wheel peel or go...

www.diygokarts.com

Yes, the Air filter blocks this application. Little to no space between filter box and head. A rigged linkage system may be dangerous, but I am open to trying one if feasible.

Good that you mentioned the clearance issue. A simple fix is to find or fashion an air filter adapter. This can be as simple as a PVC end cap drilled and bored on the end and you finding an air filter that will fit it (usually secured with a hose clamp). More on that later...

 

[daveofds]

By George I think I may have the solution. Saw a Utube video. There is a short compact spring that attaches from another spot on the governor to my accelerator plate. It will put downward pressure on the governor. One of these is bound to work.

Amazon.com

2 minutes 30 seconds in

 

[Hellion]

Air filter adapter (last post in thread):

3HP Briggs Throttle Linkage.

Hello All, new to the forum. I recently picked up a pair of Streaker go karts with 3 hp briggs. I am rebuilding them and have a question on the linkage. I replaced the carbs and not sure how to make something for the throttle linkage. Can someone please post pics of their linkage set up? This...

www.diygokarts.com

 

[daveofds]

Replaced the carb. Runs better, but no response from throttle. I bought a bunch or springs. I need more force pulling the throttle body open. I will try applying a few more springs. One to the butterfly valve and one to pull the governor down when the pedal is not engaged. By the way. IT IS MUCH EASIER TO SEE THE LINKAGE WITH THE FLYWHEEL COVER OFF!

 

[Hellion]

Don't run it too long without the flywheel cover, that's how the engine is cooled.
At this point it feels like you're just throwing things at the wall, seeing what will stick.

This thread needs more photos!

 

[daveofds]

Finally running like it should. Just needed a stronger spring to exert downward pressure on the governor. The stock one was useless. I had to fabricate one from the assortment I got from Amazon. Now when accelerator is depressed it revs up to max rpm. Actually pulled me up the steep hill to my house.

Whew! Now after tearing up and down my street and around the house I can sit back in the hot tub with a cool drink to ease my sore back after hunching over this Kart engine for hours on end.

New Carb $20, Tav 30 $60, Spring set $20 carb rebuild kit $20 (a waste of time money and effort, never run well until I put the new carb on) countless hours later the Kart is running as it should! Thanks for all the help, references, etc.

 

[Grizzlymi]

Cheers to figuring it out. It isn't always easy(or cheap), but it is totally worth it when done and figured out(for now). Enjoy the hot tube and cool drink.