Started new build.

[utahoutdoors]

New to go-kart building. Something I have wanted to do since I was a kid.....

Will DS and I have talked about it for off and on. So we decided it was time. I have done a ton of go-kart web surfing and have collected a good measure of links of different ideas and sites.

So I made the decision to go with a two seater with double
wishbone front suspension using "A" style in the front.
Then using a suspension in the rear to make suspension on the rear area of the motor with the live 1" axle.

Using a 1" X .120 square tubing. Not ever welded a day in my
life until a few weeks ago, it become a good learning experience. While some are pretty bad I am getting better every weld.

I have gone with 1" live axle in the rear using a 420CC and using a TC series 40. With the front using 3/4 spindles using the AZ2298 3/4 spindle with tapered bearing seats.

With another tread conversion I still making decision on the
tire sizes. Using 8" steel ATV RIM for front and rear.
While going with a 8" X 7" wide steel ATV style RIM in the rear and using 18X9.50-8 or 18X8.50-8 in the rear. But the front I
really wish to go with a narrow wheel because of turning off
road on dirt and sand. As 99.9% of my travel will be on BLM dirt, rocky and sandy roads. So going with the front 8 X 5 7/8 RIM. It uses a 16X6.50-8 tire. Unfortunately no 18" tire for this narrow RIM. So is the 6.50 tire narrow enough or should one consider going smaller width?

2 pics on the start of the build.... one with just the 2 seat area. Followed by a start on the double wishbone (far from complete in this stage. Then the rear motor area.

 

[landuse]

It looks like you have a good start. I look forward to seeing how it turns out

 

[crazykart]

Did someone say 18" tires for the front? Might as well go 18x6.50x8 if your going 16x6.50x8. Here: http://www.bikebandit.com/tires-tubes/motorcycle-tires/itp-mini-atv-go-carts-tire

The holeshots are great tires for offroad, including sandy conditions, and come in 18x6.50x8".

Edit cheaper: http://www.amazon.com/Carlisle-Holeshot-Tire-Application-Construction/dp/B000MPQIM2

 

[utahoutdoors]

I was looking at this holeshot tires as well, great minds think a like... LOL

Any worth the extra $$ for the 4-ply vs 2-ply in go-karts?

Worked on a jig last night for making the A-Frames, as they need to be perfect in size
to each other. Got 2 of them welded up now. Just clean them up and mount the
brackets on the front header/block. Received my heim joints in the mail but still waiting
for the cone spacers for them.

It moving along pretty good just need to get more part$ ordered now.

 

[crazykart]

4 ply is more durable, more puncture resistant, and should last longer. For offroad applications I would suggest 4 ply. Don't want a stick or rock rendering your tire useless when out on the trails.

 

[OzFab]

Using a 1" X .120 square tubing.

There's your first mistake, it's always better to use larger thinwall material than small thickwall material; most of us use 1" x 0.065" square tube...

If you think that won't be strong enough, go up in size, not wall thickness...

In the end, that thing will be a heavy pig of a kart...

 

[utahoutdoors]

Need some friendly advise on the front suspension. I will be using 8" wheels with hubs connected to Azusa spindles. The Spindles use a 5/8 bolt into the 2.5" tube, in which the
spindle is connected to.

So I purchased some heim joints which are screwed into the end of the A-Frames. Because of this I purchased 4 cone spacer on each side. So I have a cone spacer above
and below each heim joint. These spacers make it so a 6 bolt will not be long enough. I will need to order a 5/8-18 X 6.5" grade 8.

So with this said I am a little concern on the angle of the cones as it not allow it move too much. But with good heavy shocks they normally move only about 2.5 inches.

But with a 6.5 bolt + hex head inside a 8" rim I should have enough clearance?

 

[utahoutdoors]

Here a pic. This would be in the normal or down spot as it would
normally ride. You see the cone hits the ball or the side of the heim joint.

Any suggestions?

 

[crazykart]

Hmmm, idk if there will be enough clearance inside of the rim for that...

I have some 8" rims that I could measure the inside, but I doubt it would fit at roughly 7", and I couldn't measure anyways until tomorrow afternoon after work...

I would think that you could get a good range of movement still without the cones, but idk off hand...

Wait, you said you're using hubs?

Shouldn't be a problem then as iirc you're using skinny rims up front (6"?). With the hubs on there and then the rim bolted to the hub, the kingpin/joint area should be outside of the rim itself.

As far as the cones limiting movement... have you thought about getting a thick wall tube the same Id as the bolt, and the same od as the tie rods ball? The flat end part of the ball, not the whole ball (hope you understand that)

You could cut that tube, remove the cones, and use that as a spacer then...? Since the tie rods seem to be contacting the sloped part of the cone and limiting full movement....

Sorry idk right now, tired, usually work 3rd shift and I have to work a 1st shift this morn so I'm all thrown off. I'll look after work, and if it hasn't been answered I'll see what ideas pop into my head.

 

[utahoutdoors]

I will be using the 8" X 5-78 wide wheels, with the azusa 2298 bearing (tapered) hubs. Yes you are correct that the king pin will be out the outside of the tire and wheel.

I measured the movement from the down or normal ride spot. Then swing the a-frame
up to it was even with the frame of the kart. I have about 5 inches from these two points.

I plan on using the azusa 1700-236 which is the heavy duty shock which has a movement of 2.4 inches at a 45 angle.

My thought was to remove the cone completely and leave a floating space by place a jam nut. This would cause the king pin to float the tube with the spindle. But I believe
that movement such as this will break or bend something in the configuration.

BTW: Got the 16 X 6.50 - 8 holeshot tires today. I was happy with the 50% price and delivered in less than 48 hours.

 

[utahoutdoors]

Doing some searching I discovered some solutions to his by using a misalignment spacer for the Heim joint. It slips inside which allows a much better angle to turning of the joint. But in doing this will reduce the joint from 5/8 to 1/2". I considering using 1/2 grade 8 bolt with some 5/8 reducer inside the 2.5 " on
spindle. But concern going from 5/8 to 1/2 losing the strength
which I may wish to have on this king pin.

 

[utahoutdoors]

Update: Did find a shop locally selling the misalignment spacers. Worked like a charm and replaced my king pin with 1/2 X 6.5 with grade 8. I gained about 2+ inches of movement which is more than I hoped for

Received my shocks from MFG today with some other parts. RIMS from MFG placed on
back ordered

I am considering buying a 10" rim for the rear because with the 8" front are lowered
via the A-Frames. With this they are lowered by about 6 inches. With the axle installed
on the rear section with just the bearing hangers I think I can go with a 10" rim and 20" tire. Any feedback?

 

[crazykart]

You can do that yes, you could also go up a size in the 8" rim department as well if you wanted, for reference : http://www.amazon.com/Carlisle-Turf-Saver-Lawn-Garden/dp/B005O5XXIM

 

[utahoutdoors]

Any thoughts or concern on going to a 10" rim then use 20 or 22 vs using the 8" rim with this 20". By going to the 10 rim to I gain anything besides more cash?

I seen this Carlisie Turf in my searching. Was not sure if it was a good off road tire or not

 

[crazykart]

IF I'm right the 20-10 is 2" taller than the 20-8. It should be 10" each side of the rim IIRC. So the 20 on the 8" rim would be 28" tall, and the 20 on the 10" rim would be 30" tall, but don't quote me on that cause I could be wrong, tired and don't remember.

The turf saver tires are.good "all around" tires. Iirc there are off road atv style tires that are 20 on 8" rims

 

[utahoutdoors]

Crazykart, If a tire is 20 X 8.00-8 this it should be around 20 +/- about .75.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crr-574359

This is a 20x8-8 which in their description shows it 19.40" in Diameter.

So my thought process is if I drop my front A - Frame down 6" to the center spindle that will bring the front 1/2 of the 16 tire is 8. So 6+8 is 14 to bottom of the frame.

So If I use in the rear a flange hanging bearing which is about 2" down. Then going with a 20 center point would be about 10". So 2+10 would be about 12. Which would be much closer than the 18" tire. Plus I can bring the hanger down another 1.5 or 2
lower if I am too worried about it.

I was hoping to find the holeshot like the 16x6.5-8 I found for the front.


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/itp-5170021

But no luck in the 18, 20 or 22 with 8 or 10 rim. Not sure if they made.

 

[Denny]

I would go with a 22" tall tire on 8" rims they are cheaper. The shortest tire I have ever found for a 10" rim was 23" but most were 25" in any decent lug pattern.

Denny

 

[crazykart]

See, that's what I get for posting after a few days with no sleep lol.

Holeshots idk, but they do make similar tires in that size. Google atv tire + the size you want, and you should find matches.

 

[utahoutdoors]

Ok I have some more questions in gearing.

Got my 420cc engine today. So I planning on making a online purchas for parts this week and was looking at gearing again and trying to wrap my head around this again

So using a comet series 40 kit which will connect the driver to the 1" shaft will drive the driven with the belt. Then on the driven using a 10 or 12 tooth with #40/41. Does the attached directly to the driven or is this required to have a small axle?

Then connect the 40/41 chain to a 72 or 80 sprocket. Will this be a good ratio to go with off road dirt and some sand.

Do I need another jack shaft in between?

Thanks for the help

 

[crazykart]

10 tooth on the driven and 72 or 80 on the axle sounds great for offroad.

There will be no other jackshaft between the driven and the axle sprocket unless you want to do "compound gearing", but that's a different boat that I don't think you need to sail.