Stage 1 Upgrade Not Impressive

[olddognewtricks]

So, the Stage 1 kit is installed on my GX200. Everything is secure and it was installed properly....air filter, header exhaust, re-jet.

I would love your suggestions. On several tests with the Stage 1 kit, my acceleration and top speeds are virtually identical. The comparisons were all run on the same stretch of asphalt.

Do you have any ideas if something else needs to be done to gain any performance from this kit?

 

[anickode]

Are both tests without the governor?

 

[olddognewtricks]

The governor is stock and hasn't been messed with. I am not going to remove it.

 

[mckutzy]

What is the machine/gear ratio/tire OD ect....????

When you did a rejet... did you do a plug test to see if that is what is good for that particular carb and settings??

 

[BigWes]

where did you buy your stage 1 kit from? I ask because all kits are not the same.

 

[Flyinhillbilly]

I personally believe all the stage stuff is a gimmick and meant to sell parts.
There is real performance to be had out of these engines, but it can’t be found by simply bolting on a kit.

 

[BigWes]

I personally believe all the stage stuff is a gimmick and meant to sell parts.
There is real performance to be had out of these engines, but it can’t be found by simply bolting on a kit.

Lots of truth to this for dang sure. The major ingredient to any improvement at all from the stage one really comes from getting more fuel from the carb. That little jet is really what you're after. The rest just backs it up. And honestly the right set of drill bits is all you need. But a jet kit for the high and low side just makes things easier for tuning.

You can buy some flywheel keys for different degrees and use your computer and download a printable degree wheel and even do some minor timing changes yourself. You can still make cheap power without blowing the thing up if you are careful.

But for any serious power it's going to cost money.

 

[anickode]

The governor is stock and hasn't been messed with. I am not going to remove it.

That's why you aren't seeing any gains. A stage 1 kit basically just lets the engine breathe better so it can perform at higher rpm.

To see gains below 3600 rpm, you're really going to need to up your compression and/or run a bigger cam. Timing advance will help some too.

 

[olddognewtricks]

Thanks. After personal experience, I agree with the "stage kits" largely being a waste of money.

If it would fit on my frame, I'd buy a 8HP Predator or Honda. But, based on my rough measurements, I don't see how those physically larger engines would fit.

Here is the frame I own. I went to Harbor Freight to measure the 301cc engine. I don't see how it would fit, do you?

https://www.gopowersports.com/go-kart-kit-frame-xl/

 

[anickode]

You can always for a bigger engine. Might take modification, but you can always fit a bigger engine.

Perhaps find a used ~8hp Briggs flathead and freshen it up? Since the cylinder sits vertical, you can fit a little more engine in the same footprint.

 

[olddognewtricks]

Stage 1 Kit NOT Better For Me

OK, instead of guessing and asking for "help", I spent today doing my own testing.

If you want to save time and know the end-results, the stock Honda GX200 performed a little better than the same engine with a Stage 1 Kit installed (bought from Go Power Sports). My advice: save your money!

I ran two tests with my go kart and its Honda GX200. The ONLY difference in setup between the two tests was the following. Everything else was 100% identical.

Different Test Setups on the Engine:

** On the first set of runs, I ran the engine with the Go Power Sports Stage 1 Kit
** On the second set of runs, I ran the engine 100% stock original.

First Tests With the Stage 1 Kit on Honda GX200:

** Several times, I measured the time to go from point A to point B; I started from a dead start, not a rolling start. RESULT was an average of 9.1 seconds.

** Several times, I measured top speed over a set distance from a dead start. Max speed was 26MPH.

Second Tests With Honda GX200 in stock/factory condition:

** Several times, I measured the time to go from point A to point B; I started from a dead start, not a rolling start. RESULT was an average of 8.3 seconds. Exact same distance as before. BETTER than with the Stage 1 Kit by almost a full second.

** Several times, I measured top speed over a set distance from a dead start. Max speed was 26MPH, exactly the same as with the Stage 1 Kit.

Based on my results, I believe the Stage 1 Kit is purely a gimmick with only one benefit - it looks cooler than the stock parts, and depending on your point of view, it might sound cooler. Other than that, you are out $75 and annoy the **** out of your neighbors.

 

[mckutzy]

You didnt answer my first post.... A major importance of note...

The Carb- They all vary in difference to what the specifics of how the carb was made, they are tuned to a specific measure, but fall in to a range....

I havent seen a specific set of "stage 1" guidlines as in a complete description of exacting orifices of said jets in the kit.... There is alot of drill bits in a 1-60 set...
I suggest a plug test/redrill to tune the jet to the variances of your specific carb with said motor mods... youll get the best settings and performance...



As for top speed- that has really nothing to do with this carb adjustment/mods.... All gearing...

 

[olddognewtricks]

I am forgetting about modifications and plan to enjoy driving with my stock engine. Too many questions out there about performance claims of modifications, etc. and I don't care to worry about it.

I realize there truly are deeper, real mods that can make significant and legitimate improvements in performance. But, I'll leave that "surgery" to others who know what they're doing.

If I simply need more power, I'll get a bigger engine. For now, the GX200 or Predator 212 Hemis are probably all I need.

But, Stage 1 kit is being returned.

 

[Brianator]

I'd gamble a guess that the air filter is why you lost e.t.. it's like putting a 3" intake on a Honda Civic, you'll gain flow up top while sacrificing your lower end torque, it all has to do with velocity! The stock "intake" on GX series and clones actually have a intake runner that "straitens" the air (laminar airflow) and aids velocity whereas a filter right on the carb does not, it just allows it to breathe better in the in higher rpms where the stock "intake" becomes a restriction.

If you're up for it try making an tubular intake runner for that filter and see what happens, the closer in size to the carb mouth the better. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a gain over just the adapter and filter! Long tube intakes increase torque IF properly sized, that's a fact and I've proven it on my car and truck. No I didn't take it to a dyno nor did I use a speed app, when a vehicle I'm used to pulls noticeably harder for longer there's no denying it in my eyes. An engine is an engine big or small and the dynamics of airflow apply to both. My Champion 6.5hp also saw a gain going from the stock intake to an extended version that connected to an airbox via round hose.

 

[olddognewtricks]

I wouldn't know where to begin on making a tubular intake runner.

 

[jmaack]

bs. I've put multiple stage ones with 30 series knockoffs. they always gain 3-5 depending on gearing. i figured altitude was to blame but i se you are in Georgia similar to mine in Alabama.

what is your gearing?

 

[anickode]

Fyi you could put a 670 v twin on there, and if you keep it governed to 3600 rpm it will never go any faster. Ever.

It accelerate a whole lot quicker, but your top speed will NEVER improve under a governor. Period.

 

[jmaack]

Fyi you could put a 670 v twin on there, and if you keep it governed to 3600 rpm it will never go any faster. Ever.

It accelerate a whole lot quicker, but your top speed will NEVER improve under a governor. Period.

valid point unless leaving some on table with stock trash. that and gearing will help. its a package thing. hence the stage 1

 

[Brianator]

I wouldn't know where to begin on making a tubular intake runner.

That's unfortunate... time to learn some new tricks old dog!

 

[olddognewtricks]

Gearing is 6:1. 10 tooth clutch, 60 tooth sprocket.