Silver Fox and a Bald Guy

[ct_racer]

Hey Everyone. I've read random stuff on here for years. There's great info on here for a lot of different aspects of fab and engineering.

I recently received a free engine (pred 301), which I fear is going to end up costing me dearly. Starting with an ok deal on a Silver Fox roller I picked up last night. There have already been some interesting design choices on this one (mainly the rear wheels/tires), that I'm planning to tone down a bit.

There will be a lot of phases to the build, the first being going through everything to make sure its safe, then getting it driving.

Ultimately, I'm feeling 2 seater FL Odyssey vibes for inspiration, and I think the second phase would be figuring out wheels, tires, hubs, brakes, all that. I have a lot of other ideas as well (my mind is actually churning non-stop on this one), but let's start with the basics.

This is also a build with and for the kids who will need to grow into it a bit. Teach them some wrenching skills in a way where mistakes aren't terribly expensive to recover from, teach them some driving/off roading, have them learn to not touch the muffler, all that fun stuff.

We have a trail network to run it on, with some decent hills. Some areas to run it out, and others that are a little more technical. Should be a lot of fun for all of us hopefully.

More to come!

 

[Whitetrashrocker]

Awesome kart.
A predator 301? Should be enough to move that along.

Builds are fun cause they change plans in the middle.

 

[ct_racer]

Awesome kart.
A predator 301? Should be enough to move that along.

Builds are fun cause they change plans in the middle.

Thanks! Yep a pred 301! Still in the box and everything. First step is figuring out a torque converter. I'll have to figure out the rest from there.

It'll be fun getting the kids involved in some design decisions when we start getting to that point.

 

[Whitetrashrocker]

40 series will bolt right up to that 301. Its a 1" output shaft.
They now have some hop up parts for the 301 now. When I built mine there was none. I P&P and decked the head, a little timing advance, a slide carb and open header. Its puts a smile on ya for sure.

 

[ct_racer]

I've been looking at 40 series. All the Chinese clutter on amazon makes it hard to know what will work best. From what I'm seeing most of those are 30 series with a 1 inch input bore. I've found some 40 series, but they don't have the mounting/jackshaft plate. I'll be looking at the engine a little closer tonight, and hopefully finding something that will work.

I assume I need a specific comet belt for a 40 series vs the 30 series belt.

 

[Denny]

You will need a 40 series a 30 on that big and heavy of a kart with a torquey 301 will never last. Adding a jack shaft is not rocket surgery. There are kits made for that. I see nothing wrong with the rear tires. As for not touching a hot muffler, the kids will have to learn that all on their own, just like a stove.

 

[ct_racer]

You will need a 40 series a 30 on that big and heavy of a kart with a torquey 301 will never last. Adding a jack shaft is not rocket surgery. There are kits made for that. I see nothing wrong with the rear tires. As for not touching a hot muffler, the kids will have to learn that all on their own, just like a stove.

Just like we all needed to learn, lol.

These were my thoughts as well on the 40. Trying to find something that isn't just a 30 with a larger bore is proving to not be as straight forward as I'd hoped. I'll hopefully get something figured out in the next day or two though, and I can figure out the rest of the details once I've got something in the garage as a starting point.

 

[ct_racer]

Been a while so I wanted to share a progress update. Slow. Progress ahs been slow. With kids, house stuff and spring time maintenance, sports etc. the calendar is full. Also doing some car fixes which is eating into kart build time.

Front suspension is apart and cleaned up, we just need to regrease and reassemble. Next up I need to pull the steering fully apart and figure out why it's binding up. Hoping to do that and ideally fix it this weekend.

The kids have been helping which ahs been great. They didn't seem too interested in the helping part at first, so I told them they need to help if they want me to build it for them, otherwise I'm going to build it for me and it will be too much for them to be able to drive it. They got on board pretty quick after that, and I think were actually enjoying doing parts cleanup with me.

Also just bought a welder, which really opens up some doors for fabrication. I'm planning to add a handbrake (with a momentary kill switch) so I stop the thing if they're getting themselves into trouble while learning to drive it; call that self preservation. We have some great trails to use it on up north, but there are definitely parts you need to have some off-roading knowledge or you'll get into trouble.

Unfortunately, it's looking like I got scammed trying to buy a torque converter out of the for sale forum here, so I'm out $100 and still need to find a working part. I think I've found one on Amazon I like, but I'll hold off on that until I'm a little closer to getting the motor mounted.

Hopefully I'll have some more updates to share after this weekend!

 

[Hellion]

it's looking like I got scammed trying to buy a torque converter out of the for sale forum here,

I saw that and I am sorry. We have no way to vet these people other than post count and/or a long membership here which this person was low in both. I’ve seen member trust scores on other sites that allow buying and selling….

I guess the ban hammer will come down on Eymar7 very shortly.

 

[ct_racer]

I guess the ban hammer will come down on Eymar7 very shortly.

I'm guessing he's long gone from the forum anyway, but I really do appreciate the sincerity and action.

It happens, lessons learned on my end. I'll have to be smarter about things in the future.

 

[Denny]

I hate scammers!

 

[Hellion]

How’s the project going?

If you’re stumped and need something to do, you could start by insulating your garage. It looks chilly in winter

 

[ct_racer]

I wish I was in need of something to do. Went to fix an exhaust leak on the car that turned into more than I'd planned on. A new header and O2 sensor (amd waiting for shipping), and thats at least back on the ground. Heading north for the holiday weekend, and getting the boat prepped for that summer fun.

Garage definitely gets cold in the winter, I tend to do my work in the basement whenever possible. Tools feel cold out there!

As for the kart, the front is fully disassembled. The steering pivot in the center of the kart was mangled, and binding up; so, I've got the materials to build a new one. The one that came on it (not original) was just some square tube with a couple holes drilled. Looks like a wheel probably took a hit at some point too. Going to build another out of square, but add races for the bolts to stay greased, and I'll reinforce it a bit... I think there's something about the structural integrity of triangles vs squares. Should make for a good practical first welding project for myself.

I've also cut off the bracket holding the master cylinder so I can relocate that. It was in the way of the seat adjusting forward, which I'll need working for the kids to be able to drive. Kids have helped clean up all the old grease up front, and with some of the disassembly.

Once we build the steering pivot, the front end can go back together. I've got a few parts ordered waiting to go on as well.

 

[Hellion]

I’m not sure I understand this steering pivot part in your hand. I don’t see anything like it on the parts manuals. Is it a previous owner modification or repair? I like seeing ball bearing supported spindles and pivots on some high end karts. Wonder if something similar could be done or with plain bearings (Oilite)....

https://landmaster-assets.american-landmaster.workers.dev/uploads/manuals/Fun-Kart/606607_operatorsmanual_606c14.pdf

Those back tires do look pretty huge and the giant fuel tank up high sorta bothers me. Would rather have it low and with a fuel pump if need be. It’s low on the frame on a Honda Odyssey FL.

 

[ct_racer]

It's definitely not an original part, just a piece of square tube with some holes drilled through it to slide a couple bolts through. No lubrication or anything like that. In the parts diagram you gave it should be part 13, but this is not that. I think my plan for having tubes for the bolts to have surfaces to ride on that can be greased will be smooth enough for the steering. If it gets to a point that bearings are needed, I think I'd rather try to figure out rack and pinion. Hoping to get the new pivot built in the next couple of weeks as our spring time house maintenance starts to wind down.

You are correct, the back tires are huge, way too big in my opinion. 25x11R12. I'd like to put 22 inch tires front and back. I've been keeping an eye out for something used, but no luck yet. The front tires on are pretty shot, but at least hold air for now.

The kart as you see it in those first pictures is how it was from the previous owner, tank, tires, steering, all of that. Once we get to the engine phase, I'll probably just use the tank on the engine for the time being. The eventual plan is to get the engine mounted to the frame instead of it being unsprung weight on the swingarm. I'd like to set it up with trailing arm suspension, and try to keep the engine as low as possible to keep center of gravity low, but figuring out those plans are a long ways off.

For now, I'm looking to get it into a safe and driving state to get the kids (and let's be honest, myself) in the drivers seat. Once it's useable, and I can get a good feel for it's current state, I'll start to address anything that needs to be fixed/upgrades. Most likely though, the most important update will be figuring out new front tires/wheels/hubs, and probably rears to follow if not at the same time.

 

[Hellion]

Well you have some big plans afoot but you’re in the right place. We have some wildly talented fabricators here that’ll make you feel at home, or frighten you. I posted the manual so you could see what the original tire/wheel sizes were and so forth and use it as a baseline.

For now, I'm looking to get it into a safe and driving state to get the kids (and let's be honest, myself) in the drivers seat.

I like to remind newcomers that go karts (and mini bikes) were initially designed by adult men for adult men. The go kart was just designed to be the smallest race car occupying the smallest possible footprint. In those days, I believe the quarter midget held that position until the advent of the go kart. You’ll see nothing but grown men (and teens past the age of puberty) riding those early go karts. The riding position and lack of legroom was part of the design, you just had to contort yourself to fit.

Once in a while, you find a person that wants to add a 12+ inch extension in the frame so they can s t r e t c h their legs out, not knowing that they’re ruining the light weight and the agility the frame once had, basically turning it into a limousine. But I digress. Sorry for the rant!

 

[ct_racer]

I like to remind newcomers that go karts (and mini bikes) were initially designed by adult men for adult men.

No worries on the rant! Nothing that hasn't crossed my mind already.

I'm adding a handbrake with it's own rotor and caliper with a momentary kill switch on the handle. This will let me be able to cut power and stop the thing from the passenger seat when they get into trouble while they're learning. They're not going to be going out without a grown up riding along for at least a few years at this point until I know I can trust them. The handbrake can also be some extra fun for the grown ups.

I'm also planning to limit power using the governor in some way. I haven't figured that part out yet, but the engine is still in the box too. I'll need to come up with something that can be easily removed by an adult, but not so much by a kid. My son is young, but has an engineer's brain, so this part may end up as battle of wits that has to be readdressed several times.