Razor Dune Buggy - Upgraded Components and then fried stuff. Advice needed..

[ts2340]

I got hold of a Razor Dune Buggy (24V).. I got a new 24V motor off amazon, a new 36V controller, and a 48V battery pack..

I hooked them all up and it worked, for a while.. The wires on the motor melted out so I do believe the motor fried.. I did test the voltage and even though it's a 36V controller it passed all 48V from the battery..

I did order a 48V motor hoping it would fit but it wasn't even close.. Way too big..

Is there any way I can get this back up and running without dropping too much money into it?

Thanks!

 

[Functional Artist]

Well that sucks!

FYI: ALL components should have matching voltages

If ya got a 24V motor
...then, you need a 24V controller & battery pack etc.

First, I would "test" the motor "directly" (skipping the controller)

You can use (1) 12V battery for this test
This "test" will check if the motor still functions (& if it sounds weird or anything)

If it passes this 12V "test"
...then, try to run the motor with 36V &/or 48V

* If the motor is still on the buggy, raise the rear wheels off of the ground

 

[EpsilonZero]

Running matched voltage components is good and the safe bet way to do it. However, it is possible to over-volt a motor and even have a higher voltage battery than the single voltage rating of the controller. It all depends on the components you are using; many actually operate safely with a wide range of voltages, though documentation of that with cheaper components may be nonexistent.

I have a Dune Buggy with a "24v" Currie motor that I am running at 36v, which makes it spin to a higher RPM. I've heard of that motor being run at 48v. The reverse can work, too. I have a 48v rated motor in my Jeep kart that I only put 24v into, leaving it with a lower max rpm. I also have a "72v" motor on my big kart that I power with an 87.6v battery pack. Some of the more expensive controllers and motors have extremely wide operating ranges like 24v-144v.

You should test the motor like FA said. It is one of the easiest things to test, being brushed. Keep in mind that the wires could have melted independently of whatever failed. Melted wires can actually continue to work fine... until you get a short that is.

 

[ts2340]

Thanks for the replies guys.. When I bought the 48V battery it was only a little bit more than the 36V so I thought, hey if the controller can handle it but only output the 36v, then I can have it down the road if I want to somehow upgrade something else.. I didn't realize the controller would output the full 48V..

Last night I tested the motor.. I connected two 12V batteries to make the 24V and then touched the motor wires to the terminals.. There was a big spark and it left a black mark on one of the spade connectors.. The motor did move briefly but I quickly removed the wires..

I tried it a second time this time trying to leave the wires on a little longer but something seemed jacked as it continued to spark at the terminal so I removed them again..

Thoughts? Thanks!

 

[EpsilonZero]

The wires will spark as the connection is closed. That part is normal.

 

[Functional Artist]

Yup, like EZ said, a single spark is normal
...but, if it continues to produce sparks (that's not good or normal)

I'd try & test the motor @ 12V first (12V produces a smaller spark)
...then, (if successful) move up to 24V

What are you "testing" for?

Check for smooth rotation
...listen for any abnormal noises
...&/or "sniff around" for any abnormal smells (a burnt smell would not be a good sign)

 

[ts2340]

Thanks again fellas.. I want to say it was continuous sparks.. I know the initial spark was expected but this felt almost like a "pull" of electricity if that makes sense..

Side note.. I found this video:

and am wondering if I can pull that off.. They used this motor/controller combo (and i already have a good 48v battery)..

They mentioned they shortened the chain and had to modify to make the motor fit which is my only concern.. I'm handy with tools and modding so I'm sure I can make it "fit" but not sure about the chain piece..

 

[Functional Artist]

Continuous sparks is not a good sign
Is the motor locked up?

Yup, I don't see why not.

Keep us posted as to your progress
...& we'll be here to help

* Shortening a chain isn't that hard
...or a local bicycle shop can probably help (if necessary)

 

[EpsilonZero]

The stock chain is #25. If you're changing the chain length or deleting the jackshaft, you'll need master links and a chain breaker wouldn't hurt. The chain is cheap, so it might be a good idea to get a new one that matches the master link manufacturer. I've run into problems before trying to mix them and the sizing being slightly off. There should be no need to delete the jackshaft to mount the motor, though. And, if you want to upgrade the axle and wheels...

 

[ts2340]

The stock chain is #25. If you're changing the chain length or deleting the jackshaft, you'll need master links and a chain breaker wouldn't hurt. The chain is cheap, so it might be a good idea to get a new one that matches the master link manufacturer. I've run into problems before trying to mix them and the sizing being slightly off. There should be no need to delete the jackshaft to mount the motor, though. And, if you want to upgrade the axle and wheels...

Thanks for the reply.. What does #25 mean? So would you suggest just getting a new chain that includes master links?
Also, I don't even know what a jackshaft is.. If it's possible to get that giant motor mounted without removing stuff that I *should* keep then I definitely want to go that route..

Thanks so much for the help..

 

[EpsilonZero]

#25 is the size of chain and the number of links is how long it is. I would get a new chain. The jackshaft is that intermediate shaft between the motor and the axle that has sprockets on it. It further modifies your gear ratio in a compact space. I'd never seen someone tear it off and use the space as a mount for one of those little MY1020 style motors before this video. Those motors can fit in the original motor area just fine, though you may need to drill some holes and/or use U-Bolts or bent threaded rods. You also don't need to cut a hole and put a foot pedal in. You could probably use the original thumb throttle if you wanted to; the voltage indicator just won't be usable. I did switch to a different more comfortable thumb throttle though on my son's dune buggy.

 

[madprofessor]

A lifetime of servicing and installing electric motors from 6 watts to 90 hp. has taught me a very valuable thing................You can't possibly make your power wiring too big or heavy gauge. Make it oversized enough that the motor would melt first before the wiring does, and install a properly sized circuit breaker in the line. Breaker trips, is easily reset, nothing burns up.

 

[ts2340]

#25 is the size of chain and the number of links is how long it is. I would get a new chain. The jackshaft is that intermediate shaft between the motor and the axle that has sprockets on it. It further modifies your gear ratio in a compact space. I'd never seen someone tear it off and use the space as a mount for one of those little MY1020 style motors before this video. Those motors can fit in the original motor area just fine, though you may need to drill some holes and/or use U-Bolts or bent threaded rods. You also don't need to cut a hole and put a foot pedal in. You could probably use the original thumb throttle if you wanted to; the voltage indicator just won't be usable. I did switch to a different more comfortable thumb throttle though on my son's dune buggy.

Thanks for the reply!! So that's awesome if I don't have to remove that jackshaft thing.. I'm looking for as simple as possible.. S

Would this chain work? https://www.amazon.com/gp/slredirec...56603608&id=473229193061558&widgetName=sp_atf

Yea I wasn't going to put the pedal in.. I would like to wire in a reverse switch but don't necessarily HAVE to have that..

A lifetime of servicing and installing electric motors from 6 watts to 90 hp. has taught me a very valuable thing................You can't possibly make your power wiring too big or heavy gauge. Make it oversized enough that the motor would melt first before the wiring does, and install a properly sized circuit breaker in the line. Breaker trips, is easily reset, nothing burns up.

I was actually typing this question out and then you replied.. So would I replace all the wiring with a thicker gauge? And when I was thinking about that.. How exactly does that work? I mean say it comes with 16gauge, just to say a number, and I wanted to replace it with 10gauge.. If I cut the 16 gauge off and solder the 10 gauge to it as close as possible, is that all thats' needed?

 

[EpsilonZero]

Any #25 chain should do. I used CountyLine from Tractor Supply. If your wiring is too thin to carry the current the length of the wire you can shorten the length and/or use a lower gauge. Your motor should have the appropriate gauge for its rating, but that isn't always guaranteed. I personally wouldn't want to solder wire together like that. What motor did you use? You linked to something in your order history that we can't view. The 48v motor should fit though you might have to adjust the controller mount bracket and move the controller.

 

[ts2340]

This is the motor/combo I bought (as it was the one used in the video I linked)..

 

[EpsilonZero]

I meant the 24v motor that had the melted wires.

 

[ts2340]

I meant the 24v motor that had the melted wires.

Oh, sorry.. Here she is: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EB12V74/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[EpsilonZero]

Yours was rated for 280W. Most 36v controllers are rated at 500W minimum and the motor will draw pretty much whatever the controller gives it. It might be fine... or not if the wiring just can't handle it for instance. I am running a 500W rated motor with a 1000W controller on our Dune Buggy with no issues, but a 1000W controller with a 280W motor would probably get pretty hot.

 

[ts2340]

I'm assuming this new motor/controller combo will be faster then what I have in it now?

 

[EpsilonZero]

Faster than the zero rpm you are getting now? Yes. The 24v motor might have spun faster at 48v than the 48v motor, though. That is because more voltage spins the motors faster and the smaller motor likely gets more rpm per volt (but less torque per amp) compared to the 48v motor. However, it isn't useful RPM if the motor flies apart or overheats under load.