Powerland 420cc GAB 2.0

[bob58o]

We have $1 drinks and $2 shots.

They drink $7 Vegas Bombs and $9.50 Greygoose and Redbulls.

"Can I leave my 'Vette in the parking lot?"

"Sure, we don't tow our customers."

"Thanks here's $20 bro"

 

[bob58o]

A 212cc 4 stroke engine uses 106cc per crankshaft revolution.
A 420cc 4 stroke engine uses 210cc per crankshaft revolution.

A boosted engine needs 50% more air at WOT?
So a 212cc 4 stroke supercharger should pump 160cc per rev?
A 420cc 4 stroke supercharger should pump 315cc per rev?


The AMR300 pumps 300cc per revolution.
The AMR500 pumps 500cc per revolution.

The AMR300 driven at 1:1 might be right for the 420cc?
The supercharger driven from the TC jackshaft?
Underdriven at 2.5: 1 at engagement?
(will this be a problem? say if the pump is only putting out 120cc per crank rev - instead of the 210cc a NA engine wants? Is this just less boost? Or is this a restriction at low RPMs?)
1:1 driven when TC is in High gear?
Boost will increase with RPMs until TC gets into High Gear.

I'm thinking 9:1 static compression 6-8 psi of boost for around 13 or 14:1 effective compression.
__________________

Flyinhillbilly Flyinhillbilly is online now
Senior Member


something your not considering is the fact that the crank will make two complete revolutions per intake cycle. Boost is kind of a funky thing, ideally 14.7psi in the intake would effectively double your power output given everything else is tuned correctly, but it's not that simple. I figure getting the amount of underdrive right is going to be the trick.
__________________
Flyin' ain't nothing, it's just falling with style.

---------- Post added at 11:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:12 PM ----------

On the intake stroke the engine fills with 420cc of air/fuel as the piston goes down.
The same 420cc gets compressed as the piston goes back up on the compression stroke.

That is one crank revolution.

The same 420cc gets expanded as the mix gets ignited and the piston gets pushed down on the power stroke.
The same 420cc gets pushed back up and out the exhaust on the exhaust stroke.

This is the second crank revolution.

Two crank shaft revolutions = 420cc.

210cc / per crank shaft revolution (100% volumetric efficency).

14.7 psi at sea level if at 210cc per crank revolution.

I was thinking that to add 7.35 lbs of boost, I would need 1.5 x 210cc = 315cc per crankshaft revolution.

MAYBE THIS IS 21 LBS OF BOOST?????????
MAYBE I ONLY NEED 105cc OUTPUT FROM THE SC (TO ADD 7.35 BOOST TO THE NATURAL 14.7 PSI)


I think I did take the 4 stroke's two revolutions into account?
I think I confused myself with relative boost and absolute pressure?

 

[chancer]

Did you see the Cars and Cameras attempt to turbo a 420?
EPIC FAIL.
I won't be fi iine! lol

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Did you see the Cars and Cameras attempt to turbo a 420?
EPIC FAIL.
I won't be fi iine! lol

That whole thing has been a bit of a debacle lately.

 

[chancer]

Lately? It is always a debacle, almost hard to watch... Yet strangely addictive. lol

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Lately? It is always a debacle, almost hard to watch... Yet strangely addictive. lol

Yes, like my father with Vietnam movies lol.

 

[chancer]

Yes, like my father with Vietnam movies lol.

Mine too. He has something called "The Military Channel"

 

[bob58o]

Slap me in the face more often!!!

How many times do I have to repeat Internet Geoff to myself.

Simple mods. $320
PLUS $170 engine = $490

Ebay - Vegas Carts
$40 Free Shipping
32mm billet intake adapter.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/32mm-Billet...40-/181902400746?_trksid=p2352135.m2548.l4275
Our Billet Intake Manifold / Adapter allows you to easily mount a Mikuni or Keihin style carburetor to your GX340 / GX390 / GX420 / GX440.
It fits all GX-Series Big Block engines and has a 32mm Inner Diameter. CNC Machined from 6061-T651 Aluminum Stock!

Ebay
$35
Carburetor 32mm PWK Racing Flat Side Carb Scooter ATV Go Kart PIT DIRT BIKE
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carburetor-...jMAAOSwdU1W~WuR&vxp=mtr&rmvSB=true&rmvSB=true
PWK 32mm Carb Carburetor
Size:
Diameter(mm) 32
Outer Diameter to Air Filter: 54mm
Outer Diameter to Intake: 40mm
Color Gray Black Color
Package includes: 1x 32mm Carb
1 X Main Jet #120
1 X Main Jet #140
1 X Pilow Jet #40
and fuel pipes. Just same as picture shown.

Ebay
$13
10 x Main Jet 80 - 200
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Set-10-Main...rSubTotalOffer&_trksid=p5731.m3795&rmvSB=true

Ebay
$12
10 x Idle Jets 30 -75
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-x-SLOW-P...-Included-/281978903073?rmvSB=true&rmvSB=true

Ebay
$4
54mm Universal Air Pod Filter for Motorcycle
http://www.ebay.com/itm/54mm-Univer...e649c6b:g:0MQAAOSwmmxW47Xp&vxp=mtr&rmvSB=true

Ebay
$4
40mm Silicon Hose
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/262002129760?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true&rmvSB=true


NR
$7
6* Offset Timing Key
http://www.nrracing.com/product-p/nrkey.htm
GX270 & GX390s (will provides approx 2 to 3 more degrees than shown)
6 Degrees - Gas Applications with ARC or Stock Flywheels
8 Degrees - Alky Applications


NR
$10
Pair HD Valve Springs gx390
http://www.nrracing.com/product-p/nr-966-s.htm
pring, Valve, Heavy Duty, set (Fits 240, 270, 340, & 390s). Approx 50 lbs at 1.125 installed height, 42lbs at 1.2, with 110 lb open pressure (.375 lift)

NR
$11
90mm x 0.045" Fiber Head Gasket
http://www.nrracing.com/product-p/hgc45-90.htm
Fiber Gasket to fit 90mm Bores, .045"
Will fit most 420cc Chinese OHVs & Predators.

NR
$10
Shipping 2 Day

Robertson Torque Tubes
$76 +? Shipping
gx390 H loop Exhaust
http://www.robertsonstorquetubes.com/honda.htm
Honda and Clone motors like a long pipe hence the loop. You get the length needed and it will fit inside the kart. It can be used with a 1 5/16 muffler or our Clamp on Flare (COF). The mounting kit is included.
or
Bullfrog
$88 ($74 + $14 shipping)
Robertson Torque Tube gx390 H loop
http://www.bullfrogmotosport.com/product-p/header-honda-gx390-loop.htm

DynoCams
$25-50
Cylinder Head Milling 0.100"
http://www.dynocams.com/contact/
Porting & Milling of the GX340/GX390 & 420/440 Clone cylinder heads is the single best seat-of-the-pants increase in torque you can acheive on the stock cam.

You can add milling to increase static compression ratio. Milling yields approximately a 1cc decrease per ~.007" removed. The reference numbers below are based on a stock engine:

Stock = 41cc (8.75:1 CR)
Milled 0.025" = 37cc (9.5:1 CR)
Milled 0.050" = 33cc (10.2:1 CR) *Max for 87 Octane
Milled 0.075" = 30cc (10.8:1 CR) *Max for 91 Octane
Milled 0.100" = 27cc (11.5:1 CR)
Milled 0.125" = 24cc (12.3:1 CR)
Milled 0.150" = 21cc (13.3:1 CR) *Maximum Recommended

 

[bob58o]

I plan on leaving the counterweight in.
AND keeping RPMs around 6k or below.

 

[bob58o]

So just got off the phone with VegasCarts.

I didn't speak to Geoff, but I specifically asked about the post where he says you can run these mods with the stock rod.

He said he would recommend the billet rod and doesn't know why Geoff posted that.
????????????????

Also pointed out that more info has been learned in the time since that post.

I posted a question to that thread.

Hopefully Geoff responds as it was his comment.

 

[bob58o]

Vegas Carts & Performance added 2 new photos.
August 25 at 11:10pm ·
Our 460s have been going strong now for over 3 years and we are making some improvements to squeeze alittle more power and alot more reliability out of them.
Starting in October, we will be increasing rod length to 4.51" from 4.45" and replacing the 9cc dish pistons with lighter flat tops. The extra rod length will reduce piston speed and the flat top pistons will provide better flame propogation in the combustion chamber.
Also, our new "Drop-In" 4.51" billet connecting rods are ready to run right out of the box and there is ZERO clearancing required to the cam, balance shaft, and crankcase. They will be affordably priced at $99.99 (90mm or 92mm flat top piston INCLUDED) for those who want to add power and reliability to their existing 420cc or 440cc clone and keep the costs in check!

---------- Post added at 01:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:39 PM ----------

These rods are not yet available.

---------- Post added at 01:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 PM ----------

Step 1: take possession of one engine, not broken.
Step 2: begin fixing said engine, not broken.
Step 3: stare at one now broken engine.

Step 1 Complete.

---------- Post added at 02:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 PM ----------

Why I am being stupid?
I spend $45 on a whim on Shaft lock Collars, but debating $140 to correct the weak link in an Engine I know will get the full GAB!

This is going to get pricey!

 

[bob58o]

How about $170 for the engine and $605 in Modifications.
You can see why I wanted to avoid the Billet Rod. LOL
The VC 460cc will be same price with 32mm Carb and Exhaust Header I want.

VC
4.45" Billet Connecting Rod $140
http://www.vegascarts.com/product-p/6274.htm

VC
Torque Camshaft $50
http://www.vegascarts.com/product-p/tqcam.htm

VC
Dual Springs $20
http://www.vegascarts.com/product-p/gp966-2.htm

VC
Retainers and keeper $18
http://www.vegascarts.com/product-p/retlocks.htm

VC
Timing Key $8
http://www.vegascarts.com/product-p/tkey.htm


NR
Pushrods $28
http://www.nrracing.com/product-p/cmpr-65.htm

NR
1.1 : 1 Reinforced Rocker Arms $40
http://www.nrracing.com/product-p/reinfrockers390.htm

NR
0.045" Gasket $12
http://www.nrracing.com/product-p/hgc45-92.htm

Bullfrog
SS Intake Valve $21.50
http://www.bullfrogperformanceproducts.com/product-p/100-1024.htm


Bullfrog
SS Exhaust Valve $21.50
http://www.bullfrogperformanceproducts.com/product-p/100-1030.htm



Ebay - Vegas Carts
$40 Free Shipping
32mm billet intake adapter.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/32mm-Billet...40-/181902400746?_trksid=p2352135.m2548.l4275
Our Billet Intake Manifold / Adapter allows you to easily mount a Mikuni or Keihin style carburetor to your GX340 / GX390 / GX420 / GX440.
It fits all GX-Series Big Block engines and has a 32mm Inner Diameter. CNC Machined from 6061-T651 Aluminum Stock!

Ebay
$35
Carburetor 32mm PWK Racing Flat Side Carb Scooter ATV Go Kart PIT DIRT BIKE
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carburetor-...jMAAOSwdU1W~WuR&vxp=mtr&rmvSB=true&rmvSB=true
PWK 32mm Carb Carburetor
Size:
Diameter(mm) 32
Outer Diameter to Air Filter: 54mm
Outer Diameter to Intake: 40mm
Color Gray Black Color
Package includes: 1x 32mm Carb
1 X Main Jet #120
1 X Main Jet #140
1 X Pilow Jet #40
and fuel pipes. Just same as picture shown.

Ebay
$13
10 x Main Jet 80 - 200
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Set-10-Main...rSubTotalOffer&_trksid=p5731.m3795&rmvSB=true

Ebay
$12
10 x Idle Jets 30 -75
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-x-SLOW-P...-Included-/281978903073?rmvSB=true&rmvSB=true

Ebay
$4
54mm Universal Air Pod Filter for Motorcycle
http://www.ebay.com/itm/54mm-Univer...e649c6b:g:0MQAAOSwmmxW47Xp&vxp=mtr&rmvSB=true

Ebay
$4
40mm Silicon Hose
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/262002129760?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true&rmvSB=true



Robertson Torque Tubes
$76 +? Shipping
gx390 H loop Exhaust
http://www.robertsonstorquetubes.com/honda.htm
Honda and Clone motors like a long pipe hence the loop. You get the length needed and it will fit inside the kart. It can be used with a 1 5/16 muffler or our Clamp on Flare (COF). The mounting kit is included.
or
Bullfrog
$88 ($74 + $14 shipping)
Robertson Torque Tube gx390 H loop
http://www.bullfrogmotosport.com/product-p/header-honda-gx390-loop.htm

DynoCams
$25-50
Cylinder Head Milling 0.100"
http://www.dynocams.com/contact/
Porting & Milling of the GX340/GX390 & 420/440 Clone cylinder heads is the single best seat-of-the-pants increase in torque you can acheive on the stock cam.

You can add milling to increase static compression ratio. Milling yields approximately a 1cc decrease per ~.007" removed. The reference numbers below are based on a stock engine:

Stock = 41cc (8.75:1 CR)
Milled 0.025" = 37cc (9.5:1 CR)
Milled 0.050" = 33cc (10.2:1 CR) *Max for 87 Octane
Milled 0.075" = 30cc (10.8:1 CR) *Max for 91 Octane
Milled 0.100" = 27cc (11.5:1 CR)
Milled 0.125" = 24cc (12.3:1 CR)
Milled 0.150" = 21cc (13.3:1 CR) *Maximum Recommended

 

[bob58o]

That list makes me want this $1000 Polaris Indy 600
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwi/for/5793613395.html

 

[bob58o]

I have napped and was ready to go into work an hour ago, but they told me to stay home.

Now I have an itch.

Going to drive to my buggy (at a friend's house) and take the head off the PL420.
Going to check Deck Height and Valve Clearance.

You know you are sick when this is your idea of a good time on a Saturday night off.

 

[Joe-405]

A 14mm and 10mm socket will be your friend. Lol

 

[bob58o]

My helper.
Been my buddy for like 3 days now

 

[bob58o]

Go home kitty!

Don't try to fool me, I know you turn evil when you grow up.
I can see the evil fire beginning to grow in the black of your eye.

 

[bob58o]

He's like an Ex GirlFriend.

I know he still cares cause he scratched the heck out of the paint on my car.

 

[bob58o]

Exhaust

Multi layer metal gasket

Port size = 29mm
Bolt spacing = 50mm
Stud Diameter = 5/16"

13 mm socket to remove exhaust nuts

 

[bob58o]

Carb can stay on but linkage must go