Powerland 420cc GAB 2.0

Jfive · Jul 6, 2016

Jrgunn5150 said:
I intend to run mine with a regular 40 series.

IMO, anything over a 16hp engine and a 40 series clutch, cost wise, get's into the "I may as well use a streetbike engine with 100hp" range.

Sometimes that's what I think too. A wreaked bike can be less than trying to get performance on a Chinese one cylinder engine. You end up with sprockets clutch multiple gears, power and hydraulic brakes.

Jrgunn5150 · Jul 6, 2016

Jfive said:
Sometimes that's what I think too. A wreaked bike can be less than trying to get performance on a Chinese one cylinder engine. You end up with sprockets clutch multiple gears, power and hydraulic brakes.

Precisely, I see 600's all the time for 600-750 bucks, so if I can't get an industrial engine done, all in, for under 500, not worth it.

But, I'm looking more for a buggy/SxS trail performer than a true "Go-Kart"

bob58o · Jul 7, 2016

Jrgunn5150 said:
Precisely, I see 600's all the time for 600-750 bucks, so if I can't get an industrial engine done, all in, for under 500, not worth it.

But, I'm looking more for a buggy/SxS trail performer than a true "Go-Kart"

I hate you! Now I can't stop thinking a bout the Polaris Tranny.

I WANT REVERSE! I WANT MULTIPLE GEARS!
But I think the 40 series ALONE should do it for me???

This may only turn 5500 RPM with the upgraded springs, I plan on 18.5" tires and 6:1 gear ratio.
(40 series 7.5" Driven 40D - 2.43:1 to 1:1)

That will get me the 50 mph I desire (hopefully)!

Assuming 20 ft lbs at the crank....

(20 x 6 x 2.43 ) / 0.771 =
378.2 lbs linear force

MINUS 20% TORQUE LOSS FROM BELT SYSTEM

302 LBS LINEAR FORCE TO PUSH THE KART FORWARD AT CLUTCH ENGAGEMENT.

F=ma
1343 Newtons (302 lb(f)) = 225kg (~500lbs) * ACCEL
ACCELERATION = 6 m/s^2
= 19.5 ft / s^2
= 13.3 MPH/s @ engagement

bob58o · Jul 7, 2016

Best I could find for now is stock gx390.
Torque starts to drop just before 3000 RPM.
HP looks like it wants to climb much higher than 12 @ 3500
(once we "FIX" a few "PROBLEMS")

- LOL You've leaned me too well E^2

bob58o · Jul 7, 2016

This will be my Exhaust...
Robertson Torque Tube gx390 H -Loop.
http://www.robertsonstorquetubes.com/honda.htm
I called.
ID on the head pipe is a little bigger than the gx200 one and it is only a three stage, not a 4 stage. It is about 33" long. My phone died so I didn't get all the specs.

Tubing ID is confirmed and using that simple formula to get RPMs..

Stage 1
0.99" ID
2650 RPM
PEAK TORQUE

Stage 2
1.15" ID
3600 RPM

Stage 3
1.21" ID
4000 RPM
PEAK HP

As close as I'm going to find, I think...
I was about to buy some 12" x 1.26" ID and 36" x 1.37" ID Tubeing and try to make 36" + long two stage, but bends, welds, flanges ...

H Loop It is. Looks Awesome! Some specs on the gx200 one. I'll call again and ask.
http://www.robertsonstorquetubes.com/honda.htm

---------- Post added at 04:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:42 PM ----------

Admittedly, I don't fully understand the complexities that go into exhaust tuning, but this pipe looks cool and is as long as I could find.

Jrgunn5150 · Jul 7, 2016

bob58o said:
I hate you! Now I can't stop thinking a bout the Polaris Tranny.

I WANT REVERSE! I WANT MULTIPLE GEARS!
But I think the 40 series ALONE should do it for me???

This may only turn 5500 RPM with the upgraded springs, I plan on 18.5" tires and 6:1 gear ratio.
(40 series 7.5" Driven 40D - 2.43:1 to 1:1)

That will get me the 50 mph I desire (hopefully)!

I don't think you really need reverse? I only want it for when I ride/drive out in the woods. I find myself back up and turning around alot in trails, I'd hate to get out of my little buggy and manhandle it around lol.

bob58o · Jul 7, 2016

This is the correct knock off 40D TC correct?
$97 free shipping
http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eB...7750&category=64657&pm=1&ds=0&t=1467943412457

Jrgunn5150 · Jul 7, 2016

bob58o said:
This is the correct knock off 40D TC correct?
$97 free shipping
http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eB...7750&category=64657&pm=1&ds=0&t=1467943412457

Yeah, that should work as long as your using a 3/4" jackshaft or whatever?

father87 · Jul 7, 2016

oh my goodness.... I feel like I'm watching Good Will Hunting. Man, I missed out on that electric start, I would have paid a little more for that :/

Can someone post bob's first GAB thread?

Jrgunn5150 · Jul 7, 2016

father87 said:
oh my goodness.... I feel like I'm watching Good Will Hunting. Man, I missed out on that electric start, I would have paid a little more for that :/

Can someone post bob's first GAB thread?

If you have a few hours free lol.

http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=32385

Jfive · Jul 7, 2016

1 1/4 conduit is .065 thickness coated, 10.00 for 10ft. Bends with a bender easily and makes manderal bends. I think I'll use it for my exhaust. I.d. Of 1.38

cavfire · Jul 8, 2016

father87 said:
oh my goodness.... I feel like I'm watching Good Will Hunting. Man, I missed out on that electric start, I would have paid a little more for that :/

Can someone post bob's first GAB thread?

I have the recoil start version sitting on the back porch, and it starts up with one or two lazy pulls. A charging coil to run lights would be a bonus though.

bob58o · Jul 11, 2016

DynoCams mills 420cc heads for cheap. He told me like $25 for the 420 and like $15 for the 212.

Last time the charge was $25 plus shipping for the 212.

I'm guessing $50 will get my head back after I spend $13 to ship it there.

Read up to 0.100" is OK with a cam less than 0.300", but I will measure before I ship.

---------- Post added at 11:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 AM ----------

Yes the 420 will also get 100 octane.

cavfire · Jul 11, 2016

Nothing wrong with those prices Bob!

chancer · Jul 11, 2016

father87 said:
oh my goodness.... I feel like I'm watching Good Will Hunting. Man, :/
Can someone post bob's first GAB thread?

First it is more like "Rainman" or "Forrest Gump"
and secondly you must be having trouble falling asleep!
http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=32385
I usually only send that to people so they go away for a few hours! lol
Love ya Bob

Joe-405 · Jul 11, 2016

I got a signed and sealed and guaranteed setup that will get you 30hp with a hole in the piston ! But it's gonna cost yeah for me to post it. Lol. I will tell you your REALLY close on your spec sheet you want tho.

kevbo22 · Jul 11, 2016

I read a article that says he got his 420cc to dyno at 40hp.
It reads:
"CRE’s Carlson has also built some wild UAS engines. “We just did a Honda GX390 which starts out life as a 13 hp OHV engine. When we were done it was right at 40 hp. It was a neat engine on the track – all torque. When we did the dyno run on it the torque curve was flat from about 3,000 rpm to 5,500 rpm. The customer asked where to set the clutch and I told him wherever you want!”

Carlson explains “That particular engine had a CNC billet head, big valves and the ports were moved over. It was a completely different head from the get go; it had roller rockers, longer chrome-moly pushrods, a billet rod, JE piston – nice, nice pieces in it. There was very little stock when we were done. It made a great engine and if you were to build one new it would run about $3,500."

I agree with a price point like that you're better off with a quad/bike or snow engine.

But pretty cool if its true.

Here is a link if you want to read:
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2010/11/karting-engine-market-and-technology/

bob58o · Jul 12, 2016

Joe-405 said:
I got a signed and sealed and guaranteed setup that will get you 30hp with a hole in the piston ! But it's gonna cost yeah for me to post it. Lol. I will tell you your REALLY close on your spec sheet you want tho.

I am a little confused by this post. What is going to get me the hole in my piston. The 1/10" milled? I was going to shoot for 10.5:1 compression and use 100 octane to be safe, since I think I need it for the other engine. The 1/10" and 1/8" is just what I read other people have milled.

I think I can get to 9:1 with just a gasket swap?

I plan on using the stock cam.
What are the specs you are referring to?

This post is such a TEASE???????

Please share.

What is too much?

I was going to...

Mill the head for 10.5:1 CR
Port and Polish the head for better flow
32mm Carb
Exhaust Header
35 HD Valve Springs
8 degree Flywheel key

If there is a next phase....
Cam Shaft
Longer Billet Connecting Rod
Rockers
PushRods
Valves

What does it cost? I'll offer my VOTE. I keep trying to sell it (don't even know IF I get a vote?)

JOE for President!!!!

I can also send a box of 212 parts. Air Box, exhaust, connecting rod???

Come on!!! $10 HF gift card?

---------- Post added at 07:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 AM ----------

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvOO1Whi_Gc

---------- Post added at 07:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:23 AM ----------

kevbo22 said:
I read a article that says he got his 420cc to dyno at 40hp.
It reads:
"CRE’s Carlson has also built some wild UAS engines. “We just did a Honda GX390 which starts out life as a 13 hp OHV engine. When we were done it was right at 40 hp. It was a neat engine on the track – all torque. When we did the dyno run on it the torque curve was flat from about 3,000 rpm to 5,500 rpm. The customer asked where to set the clutch and I told him wherever you want!”

Carlson explains “That particular engine had a CNC billet head, big valves and the ports were moved over. It was a completely different head from the get go; it had roller rockers, longer chrome-moly pushrods, a billet rod, JE piston – nice, nice pieces in it. There was very little stock when we were done. It made a great engine and if you were to build one new it would run about $3,500."

I agree with a price point like that you're better off with a quad/bike or snow engine.

But pretty cool if its true.

Here is a link if you want to read:
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2010/11/karting-engine-market-and-technology/

I WILL read this, thanks.

From previous articles and forums posts I was lead to believe that these blocks didn't do well over around 30 HP. Maybe the gx390 blocks are better than the clones??

^ is only one of the reasons I am still fighting the temptation to get the 69mm crank, billet rod, 1.2 billet rockers, After market valves, CR-Mo pushrods, camshaft (torque cam is like 60 bucks, racing cam is like 120 bucks.)

Another reason is the TC I want to use is for 18 HP engines?

Jfive · Jul 12, 2016

I would try big valves, rod, cam and carb and just a gasket. How much is 100 in your area? Prob not worth the small gain in HP to make your engine more prone to detonation. Especially if you change timing. 104 low lead aviation fuel is a good idea too as its octane plus the small amount of lead reduce chances of detonation and its usally not too bad of price.

Joe-405 · Jul 12, 2016

Ok i give but im not doing a head from dyno cams ! or anything else for that matter.

http://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?4447-Gx390-build

http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/clone-engine-swaps/78262-hf-420cc-clone-engine-question-thread.html

Powerland 420cc GAB 2.0

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