Police will Arrest us for Disturbing the Peace & Confiscate our Karts -Advise Welcome

[NewEnglandGoKartParts]

Police will Arrest us for Disturbing the Peace & Confiscate our Karts -Advise Welcome

Hello people, I know it sounds absurd, but my family owns a stock car racing team, and for fun, myself and the guys have about 5-7 go karts that we race around a parking lot at our shop.

There is a neighbor nearby who has continually called the cops about the noise, each time the officers dont seem to have a problem with us, we are not breaking any real laws, we are not doing drugs, or hurting anyone, and we are all well over age...

Recently the Chief called my cousin and threatened to confiscate our go karts and arrrest us and charge us with disturbing the piece if we are found riding our karts again. It seems he is fed up with the 6 calls from the neighbor in the last 2 months...

We have a shop, we restore, repair and upgrade karts and play with them and resell them etc...

Are we breaking laws? We are in Massachusetts, and I read all about the violation of noise pollution laws etc... and as far as I can tell we are well within our rights to ride go karts, dirt bikes or whatever we want on our own property within the proper hours... 7 am to 9pm... each time the neighbor calls it has been within these hours...

I want to hire a lawyer and go after the police before we get arrested and our karts confiscated... if they can even do that... I read the laws about disturbing the piece and you have to be wreck-less about the noise or actions to be considered disrupting

OPINIONS AND COMMENTS PLEASE!!!

 

[itsid]

hire a lawyer and fight the neighbour!

I'd take bets that it wasn't the Chief calling but said neighbour...
since when does a cop call you to tell you to stop..?

'sid

 

[NewEnglandGoKartParts]

We have a good relationship with the officers in town since one of the boys on the crew works for the town and they know we are good people and they know what we are doing isn't hurting anyone, but I guess the neighbor complained to the chief directly and then the chief took it upon himself to call my cousin to basically threaten him or issue the warning.

He explained that he was fed up and that the go kart activity had to simply stop. this is total BS... I mean, who is he to a) deny you the right to pursuit of happiness b)tell you what you can and can't do on your own property... the only thing they have on us, is the noise... we are planning a NO MUFFLER event to test the threat sometime soon...

What I think the cops should do is tell the 1 neighbor who has a problem with it to STOP CALLING... basically he is the dumb a$$ that bought a house in the middle of a commercially zoned area... the dump trucks going to and from the dump make more noise all day than we do...

 

[KartFab]

Go talk to your neighbor with what you have in mind for times to ride/not ride, mufflers etc, try to empathize with him/her, and see if you can come to a compromise. BEST SOLUTION

Your next best option (if all else fails with the neighbor) is to call the police and ask for sk what the sound pressure levels are required to be for engines/music etc. Go down to the detail (e.g. A-weighted decibels, Z? C? Unweighted?)

Then request that the police come verify that you are in compliance (because) you are putting forth a good faith effort to comply with the law.

Ask for a formal sound level survey using a type 1 sound level meter that has been factory calibrated within the past year. Ask for documentation of calibration the day of, and after the survey is complete. How far away does the sound level meter have to be from the noise source? Noise at the neighbors house when driving? Windscreen in place? Ask for documentation of the results, then BAM you have the weight of evidence on your side, and are on your own/someone elses private property. The only thing they can nab you for is the noise, so rule that out.

All of your options on the survey are RETARDED, (and i mean that in the best possible way). Its like saying "should i punch a cactus, eat the cactus needles, sit on the cactus, or just starve to death?" Maybe just make sense? Maybe just be rational?

 

[jslider]

You forgot the last option find out if the neighbor will come and ride with you, get him hooked and "be besties" lol-. Who knows maybe he feels left out or is just grumpy either way sometimes the peace offering as grannpan was saying of when is it really annoying we would rather be good neighbors and than after that discussion if it goes well, you say hey we have an extra cart that is pretty fun if you would like to give it a try come over and make a few runs and press on that he really sould give it a try.

Never know, you might get a new customer or at least a shop rat instead of a complainer.

 

[fourtogo]

You will come off as not so nice. And you don't want the noise police getting in to your biz. Have thought of maybe inviting the guy. Unless he just not going to have any of it. But putt putt around and ripping around with no mufflers is not going make this guy go away. Officer and Chief are on two different levels and they will side with whinner . As the parking lot derby is not part of your daily normal biz.

 

[xXPhasemanXx]

Definitely do what Grann_pann suggested. It's the most responsible, safe, and smartest thing to do.

 

[Felineman]

One person tried that once with me I ran a grinder for 3 days straight between 7am to 5pm. After listening to a grinder cut metal for 3 days they no longer complained about the buggies. Plus I got almost 2k for all the scrap I cut up to length.

You have a commercial property so it depends if its legal to run go carts on that property a trip to the zoning office is required. Police can only seize property if your property isn't zones for it. Running more then 1 cart constitutes a business in the eyes of the zoning department. Also a noise test to determine the exact DB rating you neighbor is complaining about. Get everything in writing. If that doesn't solve the issue hire a lawyer and get a restraining order against the neighbor.

 

[rocketkart]

I run my airboat wide open some times when the kids down the street want stop partying way past 8pm. lol thats just me.

 

[NewEnglandGoKartParts]

We have certainly not broken any laws, and have even been very considerate up until now, its really not the neighbor we are upset with at this point, but simply the police's decision to tell us we simply cant run the go karts anymore... its ridiculous... we have thought of all types of options, even to the point of trying the tolerance level of the police. We at some point will have tome come up with a rational solution. or get ourselves arrested and see where it leads... maybe we should get the press involved... the newspaper would probably pickup the story about the "BergerMister Chief" "no toys for anyone"

Everything I have read, and even spoken with a lawyer tells me that if you are going to be charged with disturbing the peace, the intent has to be malicious or intentional to annoy someone.. not the type of behavior we are displaying technically I don't think would hold up in court.

Secondly if the karts were seized as evidence in a disturbing the peace case, I was told they would ultimately need to be relinquished back to the owner. so we would get them back after paying the $150 fine... and possibly spending some time in a jail cell... ! What has this world come to...?

How do you think we could go about getting the noise survey done... I downloaded an app on my phone but didn't want to go onto the neighbors property to measure the noise level.

Given the fact that the neighbor has been irrational to this point, I doubt that inviting him would work.. however we have thought about inviting underprivileged kids on the weekends and calling it a charity...

 

[KartFab]

Sometimes its more important to be nice than to be right. Just swallow your pride and go talk to your neighbor. You will be pleasantly surprised at how someone will respond when you acknowledge them and want to work something out.

 

[machinist@large]

Sometimes its more important to be nice than to be right. Just swallow your pride and go talk to your neighbor. You will be pleasantly surprised at how someone will respond when you acknowledge them and want to work something out.

I agree with Grant; having a p#$$#ng contest just for the sake of having it is really counter productive, and can really cost you dearly in the future....

 

[Man Scout Cookies]

the dump trucks going to and from the dump make more noise all day than we do...

Trucks may make a lot of noise but at least the trucks leave the area eventually. Your go carts stay in a centralized area and so does the noise.

How do you think we could go about getting the noise survey done... I downloaded an app on my phone but didn't want to go onto the neighbors property to measure the noise level.

Given the fact that the neighbor has been irrational to this point, I doubt that inviting him would work.. however we have thought about inviting underprivileged kids on the weekends and calling it a charity...

I do not think that a sound meter cell phone application will constitute as a legitimate sound survey. That said I am not up to date on what is a legitimate sound survey. However, a while back when I was setting up a home theater I used a decibel meter I sourced from a radioshack for calibration. You could use one of those but in no way will you telling someone you measured the sound gonna hold up it is more for your knowledge than any one elses. You need to have the noise level surveyed by legitimate source who can give you documentation and will be willing to testify that your noise level is at an acceptable level that conforms with noise pollution laws.

Also I think that many of the things you have said you plan to do as well as your survey are childish and petty. The things you are planning make me ponder whether you are mature enough to handle your situation in a way that would not just exacerbate your problem.
Just take a step back and think with an open mind. Maybe you should take those carts to a private track instead of in your parking lot? It is your property I know and you should never have to let someone infringe on your rights but is this war on your neighbor and the police really worth the trouble? You may just end up isolating yourselves from the surrounding community and losing business as a result.

Not trying to provoke anything but thoughts here. Just interjecting what I'm thinking and being the devils advocate. Of course I myself have never run into a similar situation that you have but I have had friends who ran into trouble shooting guns on their property that is properly zoned for what they are doing and end up on top because they took the correct actions and acted in a matter befitting of a responsible adult and a responsible gun owner.

That all being said I think it would be a good idea to go to the root of the problem and go talk to your neighbor in a civil way. That should be your first course of action and the cheapest course. Hiring a lawyer may be costly but I don't think it is a bad idea either if you feel you are being wronged. From your original post it sounds like yall got a business to run and if your situation is interfering with your business you have to do something about that.

 

[Scout]

If I was in your shoes... I'd get out the big cars, do a few burnouts, and show the neighbor what noise is. Even if the cops come out, you're not on your go karts.

Or if you have some extra room, start a go kart track, but do it the legal way. (Who says a business has to actually open for business?)

Btw, what kind of idiot buys a house in a commercial zone and complains about the noise?

 

[AceEngineer]

If I were you, I would talk to a lawyer to make sure you are on solid legal footing and then I would personally visit the Chief in his office. If you don't get anywhere with him, come back with your lawyer in tow and let him have a go at the Chief. Better to head this off at the pass rather than bringing it to a confrontation. The lawyer should ask all the right questions about zoning, ownership of the parking lot, noise ordinance, etc. to determine exactly what your rights are before you confront the Chief.

AceEngineer

 

[2SlickNick]

Trucks may make a lot of noise but at least the trucks leave the area eventually. Your go carts stay in a centralized area and so does the noise.



I do not think that a sound meter cell phone application will constitute as a legitimate sound survey. That said I am not up to date on what is a legitimate sound survey. However, a while back when I was setting up a home theater I used a decibel meter I sourced from a radioshack for calibration. You could use one of those but in no way will you telling someone you measured the sound gonna hold up it is more for your knowledge than any one elses. You need to have the noise level surveyed by legitimate source who can give you documentation and will be willing to testify that your noise level is at an acceptable level that conforms with noise pollution laws.

Also I think that many of the things you have said you plan to do as well as your survey are childish and petty. The things you are planning make me ponder whether you are mature enough to handle your situation in a way that would not just exacerbate your problem.
Just take a step back and think with an open mind. Maybe you should take those carts to a private track instead of in your parking lot? It is your property I know and you should never have to let someone infringe on your rights but is this war on your neighbor and the police really worth the trouble? You may just end up isolating yourselves from the surrounding community and losing business as a result.

Not trying to provoke anything but thoughts here. Just interjecting what I'm thinking and being the devils advocate. Of course I myself have never run into a similar situation that you have but I have had friends who ran into trouble shooting guns on their property that is properly zoned for what they are doing and end up on top because they took the correct actions and acted in a matter befitting of a responsible adult and a responsible gun owner.

That all being said I think it would be a good idea to go to the root of the problem and go talk to your neighbor in a civil way. That should be your first course of action and the cheapest course. Hiring a lawyer may be costly but I don't think it is a bad idea either if you feel you are being wronged. From your original post it sounds like yall got a business to run and if your situation is interfering with your business you have to do something about that.

I like the charity idea
I live on top of a hill and have about 8 neighbors past me and then there is a cul-de-sac. I make my laps around the neighborhood and turn around in the cul-de-sac. Mymini bike and industrial engine go karts are muffled, but my 150cc buggy is loud and bad to the bone. One of my kids has special needs. When I put him in the passenger seat, drive by slowly, and make him wave - well... their hearts melt when they see how much he enjoys it. just thought I would share

 

[J_Walker]

I run my airboat wide open some times when the kids down the street want stop partying way past 8pm. lol thats just me.

only in florida...

 

[Scout]

Have your lawyer draft a letter to your neighbor stating that his complaints are interfering with your business.

 

[landuse]

If I was in your shoes... I'd get out the big cars, do a few burnouts, and show the neighbor what noise is. Even if the cops come out, you're not on your go karts.

Thats not going to help....

 

[jandj]

I know "If it was me..." threads often sound like the poster is trying to tell you what to do, but I'm not. My brother was involved in a similar stuation. He got a copy of the public ordinance he was threatened with. He got a copy of exactly what the zoning said he could do. He talked to a Lawyer ( after first talking to the complainer, which did no good). In the end it came down to what his business was licensed for and what local law said he could do in the pursuit thereof. My guess (and it's a guess only) is that if the kart's are a part of what your business is licensed for and you are on your property and in compiance with all other laws (including noise level & hours of operation), a reasonable amount of "testing" may be allowed. What is defined as testing may still be open to debate....