Okay, so what kind of motor is this?

[jfoust]

Thanks Kaptain. I'm of the same opinion you are. New motor is the last resort for me. These things aren't exactly Ferrari V12's here... I'm going to take the blower housing off (already learning something - didn't know that's what it was called!) tonight and remove all the paint and see what I can find! Everyone keeps pointing to that as where the info would be, but so far I've come up empty!

 

[slideways]

Enjoy. To each his own. Just giving my opinion based on the pics. Lets assume you dont have any spare parts for the Briggs. You need a recoil starter $25-40, air filter $10-20 since there is no housing,muffler $12-15, some point it will need the carb rebuilt $25. That's just the cost to get this motor running correctly assuming nothing is wrong internally. Not to mention the headache of these carbs and getting them sorted out.

Kart also needs a throttle cable. The string connected to the butterfly? Scary.

 

[jfoust]

Right. That's what I was thinking re: the motor (as I started pricing out parts since I have no spare/donor parts)... The more I think about it, the sheer money aspect makes a new motor seem like it's not such a bad thing.

BTW, I do have the Air Filter housing - it was just removed in the pics here, so I just need a filter. The old one is really nasty. Still, that's like $5 or so... A little better but still not great. Yeah, I know I need a throttle cable... Didn't figure string on the butterfly was the approved method for getting things going, but that's how the guy I bought it from was running it!!!

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

Enjoy. To each his own. Just giving my opinion based on the pics. Lets assume you dont have any spare parts for the Briggs. You need a recoil starter $25-40, air filter $10-20 since there is no housing,muffler $12-15, some point it will need the carb rebuilt $25. That's just the cost to get this motor running correctly assuming nothing is wrong internally. Not to mention the headache of these carbs and getting them sorted out.

Kart also needs a throttle cable. The string connected to the butterfly? Scary.

Carb rebuild is no more than $7, You could find a recoil at a small engine shop that has old mowers and such for much cheaper than 25, muffler will probably be around 10 in good used cond, or you could just get a piece of threaded pipe for $5 and have it straight pipes. These carbs are stupidly simple and not hard to figure out at all.

The main cost would be the recoil, if i were you i would get it running spending the least amount possible, and just wrap your rope around the starter cup to start it.

But whatever, to each his own. I personally would take the briggs but thats just me.

 

[sideways]

Enjoy. To each his own. Just giving my opinion based on the pics. Lets assume you dont have any spare parts for the Briggs. You need a recoil starter $25-40, air filter $10-20 since there is no housing,muffler $12-15, some point it will need the carb rebuilt $25. That's just the cost to get this motor running correctly assuming nothing is wrong internally. Not to mention the headache of these carbs and getting them sorted out.

Kart also needs a throttle cable. The string connected to the butterfly? Scary.

Or get a Briggs engined lawnmower (or a horizontal shaft one if theres one there) from a junkyard and get all that (minus the carb rebuild obviously) for free? And yeah, throttle cable is a must have lol.

Hayden

 

[jfoust]

Hmm sideways.. I hadn't thought about it, but I have an old pushmower that my neighbors abandoned - sitting on the side of the house... Guess I need to pull it out and see what I can plunder from it! Excellent idea!

 

[slideways]

I'd like to know where you can get a full carb rebuild kit for $7. I just ordered one for a coworker and it was $26 with my discount.

That ball bearing starter is an old design compared to the newer Flattys. You may have luck in a junkyard. The pipe exhaust is something i forgot about assuming it is threaded. Just get a 12-15" long piece and screw it in. Start the engine and then when its hot screw it in some more. Make sure you make a brace though or it will start flopping around and ruin the threads.

The correct way to rig a throttle is actually behind the fuel tank in a maze of springs. Its a complicated and awful method but it keeps the engine governed unlike how it is now. You would have to find a racing kart setup to run it the way you have it now.

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

Sorry. Not 7, 10 on ebay tho.

 

[jfoust]

All right, against my better judgement, I think I'm going clone, at least for the time being. I just can't invest the kind of time into restoring this engine the way it needs to be done right now, so the kart's never going to be used. Plus, like others have said, I'm gonna drop a bunch into the Briggs, and still have an old motor that might need more work.

So the plan is as follows - get the clone, drop it in, and then as time permits, restore the briggs and either put it back in the kart, or get a second kart for it! I'll probably do a full teardown and rebuild on the whole thing as time permits, which may take a while, but at least the kids can enjoy the kart in the meantime!

So, in order to make it happen I have a couple of questions:

1) Will the clone bolt right up like the briggs or am I going to need to fabricate something? I have access to anything I need as far as materials, welding, etc, just wondering what I'm up against.

2) What clutch do I need to go with? No sure what the current output shaft size is, but the clone is 3/4" right? What about teeth? Not sure what size the current one is (I'm at work, kart is at home) but I'm guessing I'll want to match it, right?

3) As far as the throttle goes I just need the cable, right? Shouldn't be anything special there.

 

[Kenny_McCormic]

Clone is 3/4" shaft. a $17 linkage kit and a $29 clutch (which you probably need anyway) and you're rolling. Judging from the spray bomb that motor endured it looks like it wasn't exactly well cared for.

I'm curious as to how a 60+ year old design in which many parts are no longer made is superior to a new design which is more powerful and efficient from the very get-go. I dont think the building an extreme flatty vs extreme clone argument applies to a dad building a kart for his kids. Something that needs to start and run and be reliable every time. Nothing to lose a kids interest in mechanics more than a go kart that doesn't run.

I've been down this road so many times. I wish when i was younger i could buy $99 and $109 motors.

Besides,
Maybe you could sell the old flathead relic to one of these guys who would like to polish it up and have it as some sort of... trophy?

The worlds ****iest small engine mechanic could keep the worlds ****tiest briggs flathead very reliable. The design is bulletproof and would still be made if not for emissions. You remind me of the guys who buy a new everything every time they can for no particular reason.

My newest motorized toy is a 92 Toyota, that car has never gave me ****, ever, it has 183K on the clock, I plan to run it to 300K. After unseizing the thing, the 1985 briggs flathead on my old Manco ran within a few pulls no matter what. My 72 Kawasaki F-11 250 would run if it had a coil wire put on it, I plan to make a streetable bike with it. The flathead on my suicide trike will fire right up when I get it together and tune the carb. My 86 Honda spree 50 always fires right up. Need I go on with all the old **** that isn't mine that I use or see on a regular basis?

 

[freakboy]

Its like my truck outside its older then dirt i can fall through the floor due to the rust.. but if the battery is charged it will fire up EVERY TIME and you dont see me wanting to replace the motor because it cost me a fuel pump and new filters a change of oil and spark plugs to get it running like a champ!

 

[slideways]

I get a kick out of you guys...

As i stated earlier. When i was a kid (just a few years ago really) messing with yard karts. I'd have killed to be able to buy a brand new motor for $99. Back then the POS OHH Tecumsehs were $220+. Now we have a motor thats 95% as good as a genuine Honda for less than 1/3 the price. More power out of the box and it starts every time. Not to mention the aftermarket is growing when the time comes to hop it up someday.

We can have the argument all day which one is superior but in THIS case. We are dealing with a DAD who wants a kart to run for his kids. It is EASIER for him to buy a brand spankin new motor and have it reliable for the kids to ride every time versus HOPING he can fix up that old Flatty to start and run just OK compared to the new clone.

Its fine that he's going to fix up the Flatty in his spare time and maybe use it on another project someday. He certainly won't want to put it on this kart after that nice new smooth reliable clone has been put on there.

I've had one or a few of all of the kinds of common motors out there. Briggs Tecs and Clones. And i have to say that for the money there is no beating the clone. Stock it makes 6.5hp which is plenty adequate and if you decide to build it up you can make 15-18hp before you hit "extreme" levels. You'll have a hard time doing that without significant cost and machining on the other motors.

 

[Kenny_McCormic]

If you want more than a few extra HP out of any industrial engine, a sled powerplant or motorcycle engine is the cheapest speed.

 

[Doc Sprocket]

Wow. A lot of passion here! Funny as it seems, it's good to see. Apathy is the ultimate form of laziness. You all have good points, it's just a matter of an individual's circumstances. When I started building my kids' kart, I wanted a Briggs flatty. Couldn't find one around here if my life depended on it. So, I bought a 4hp clone. And a cheap clutch. Chinese vs. American politics aside, Think about this. I got a family of four, one income (not a very substantial one, either) and I put about $100 into the motor and $20 (CDN) into the clutch. I wasn't getting a briggs or tec for that price. What are my options? To say "no, it's Chinese, I'm not gonna buy that" and what, have no motor indefinately? To he// with that idea!
Now, I recently laid hands on an old 6hp Tec (not a briggs, but getting there) that I'm going to put on thier kart as they grow and need more power. The engine came off a snowblower I got free. I removed the points and installed an electronic ignition, and I'm thinking of changing the carb out. I would have done this in the first place if the option existed at the time. I'll turn wrenches with anybody, I'm not lazy. Just couldn't find a motor.
As a side note- I'm in the process of completely rebuilding a COMPLETELY WORTHLESS guitar for a buddy of mine, when he could easily buy a cheapie knockoff for what we're putting into it...
Now- back to it-

1) The clone's motor mount pattern will likely be the same, they produce these engines to replace worn out engines on implements, and the idea is to make it a bolt-on swap.
2)3/4" Clutch, you probably need #35 or #40/1 chain, you'll have to go check.
3)At it's simplest level, throttle hookup's pretty easy with a few basic tools. You can buy kits, I don't think it's necessary. Once you have the engine in hand, just look at the throttle machanism, you'll figure it out.

 

[jfoust]

Thanks for the info Toystory. All of the input, good or bad, is very much appreciated!

Sounds like folks get the impression that I'm going to toss the motor in the landfill or something! I don't have the time to put into it right now and I hate to see the kart sitting there not bring used. My wife and I both work 50+ hours a week, plus she's in school working on a post-masters certificate taking two classes (one of which requires 500 hours of hands-on clinical time), which basically makes me in charge of everything around the house on top of working more than full time and trying to keep the cars running, etc (our 05 Grand Caravan is one problem after another).

So, as much as I'd like to tear into this Briggs and get it running, it ain't happening anytime soon. It'll just get put on the back burner and I can wrench on it on the off chance that I get some downtime, and it can be restored the right way! Thanks again for all the advice and info guys!

 

[Kenny_McCormic]

For a family kart you want to keep the governor on the motor.

 

[vandancouver]

ive never had a clone, but ive had at least 5 5hp flatty briggs. every time i ever got one, it was just clean the carb and it fired up. a tuneup cost about 10 bucks max, and consist of a few new gaskets, oil and a plug. i have flattys that start on the 2nd pull every time that are built in the early 70s

 

[freakboy]

it only takes about a day or less to fully rebuild a flatty!

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

it only takes about a day or less to fully rebuild a flatty!

A couple hours if you have all the parts ready.

 

[freakboy]

yeah if you got the torqe specs. a toruqe wrench a couple of soda cans full at first then to use as a ring compressor after along with some hose clamps it can go pretty fast.