New to building & my first build

[Yamaha440SSKart]

I am in the process of building a kart using a sled engine, a Yamaha 440ss to be exact, I have the orginal primary, seconday, carb, and exhaust, I have the whole sled to be accurate. From my understanding a lot of people have used sled engines in their builds, my thought was to run a 20t drive coming off of the secondaries drive shaft and a 37t driven on the live axel, my plans are to use 1x1x0.125 cold rolled square tubular steel. using a basic box design, I have no plans, but yet I do have a plan to build on the go. if anyone has any pointers or guidance anything and everything would be appreciated, also would a chop saw be recommended for making the angles or should I be using a steel band saw? also im thinking of doing a stiff frame(suspensionless)

 

[Yamaha440SSKart]

after further looking around and research I found a design I liked and will be pursuing, i'll be going with an arachnid build lol, I know is common lol but looks like a sweet ride and im hoping can handle the engine, any input as far as that engine size with that cart is welcome

 

[Poboy kartman]

Jeeze!!!! Another Canadian..........

Well......welcome to the forum. .....I guess......

It's just a little joke we have around here....you'll see

So.....Welcome to the forum! !!!!!

 

[Yamaha440SSKart]

yeah another Canadian I guess lol, but a go kart lover none the less lol, but what if I just moved to the states lol? and it said I was from the states lol difference I think not lol consider it more as a neighbor lol

 

[OzFab]

Don't panic about the Canadian thing, it's an inside joke around here, you'll catch on soon enough

my thought was to run a 20t drive coming off of the secondaries drive shaft and a 37t driven on the live axel

That sounds very steep to me, that's less than 2:1; we usually recomment somewhere in the neighbourhood of 6:1

my plans are to use 1x1x0.125 cold rolled square tubular steel.

It's better to use large, thin wall tube than small, thick wall tube; using 1" thick wall tube, you'll end up with an very rigid & heave pig of a frame; 1.5"x0.085" is as strong or stronger, with a little more flex (with a rigid frame, you want a bit of flex...)

using a basic box design, I have no plans, but yet I do have a plan to build on the go. if anyone has any pointers or guidance anything and everything would be appreciated

-Build around the engine
-don't be afraid to expand a little
-please include some type of roll bar or cage...

also would a chop saw be recommended for making the angles or should I be using a steel band saw?

You will end up with stronger, more accurate joins if you simply notch the tube, ie: cut out a wedge & leave one side intact; whether you use a bandsaw, grinder, hacksaw or a blunt knife is up to you but, it's extremely difficult to achieve this with a drop saw...

Remember that, when cutting angles, you need to measure half the angle from the square line; for instance, if you want a 60° angle, mark a line square across the tube, then mark 30° on each side of the square line...

 

[Yamaha440SSKart]

That sounds very steep to me, that's less than 2:1; we usually recomment somewhere in the neighbourhood of 6:1

I did some reading on that but I was curious to that seeing as how im using a sled primary and seconday prior to the sprocket ratio, or please do correct me should I use a 6:1 and allow the sled drive to get closer to that 2:1 ratio?

It's better to use large, thin wall tube than small, thick wall tube; using 1" thick wall tube, you'll end up with an very rigid & heave pig of a frame; 1.5"x0.085" is as strong or stronger, with a little more flex (with a rigid frame, you want a bit of flex...)

I will be using 1"x1"x0.065 square tubular steel, I did get plans for the arachnid and it said to use 1-1/4 and 1"

-please include some type of roll bar or cage...

I will most definitely be doing that and more then likely a harness lol and skid plates etc... once it's all said and built

 

[mckutzy]

Dude, a fellow Canuckistani here. Don't let the Texan bunch rub ya. They're all good bunch of guys, I say this as there is a good amount of them here.

Poboy just has a way of testing the newbie peeps, see how thick a skin and how good a retort they have back.
He's all good.

 

[Yamaha440SSKart]

Also I was curious if anyone knows of anyone doing this at all. Has anyone ever ran a dual chain drive? Reduce stress on the gears possibly?

 

[OzFab]

I did some reading on that but I was curious to that seeing as how im using a sled primary and seconday prior to the sprocket ratio, or please do correct me should I use a 6:1 and allow the sled drive to get closer to that 2:1 ratio?

I'm not saying you should use 6:1 but, 1.85:1 is never gonna work...

Compare the size of the sled drive wheel to the size of the wheels you intend to use; if the wheels are (let's say) 3 times the size of the sled drive wheel, the axle sprocket needs to be 3 times the size of the sleds driven sprocket to compensate...

I will be using 1"x1"x0.065 square tubular steel, I did get plans for the arachnid and it said to use 1-1/4 and 1"

That's fine when using a low powered industrial, gy6 or pitbike engine but, a 440cc sled engine isn't exactly "low powered"; to compensate for the extra power, you need extra steel but, whatever, it's your funeral...

I will most definitely be doing that and more then likely a harness lol and skid plates etc... once it's all said and built

Rule of thumb is if there is roll protection in use there should be a restraint; if it's a flat kart, there should be no restraints...

 

[Yamaha440SSKart]

That's fine when using a low powered industrial, gy6 or pitbike engine but, a 440cc sled engine isn't exactly "low powered"; to compensate for the extra power, you need extra steel but, whatever, it's your funeral...

Lol exactly why im asking. First build so the more info I can get the better, what about using a rectangular tube what would be your thoughts on that? or even bumping up their 1" tube to 1-1/4 and the 1-1/14 to 1-1/2?
What would be thought of having a casing around the chain(chain case) and having a lubricant inside said case?(ATF fluid,gear oil, etc)

 

[OzFab]

Rectangular tube could work but, I'd still be using a larger size...

Maybe go up 2 sizes: 1" up to 1.5", 1.25" up to 1.75"

 

[Yamaha440SSKart]

got a new quote and I went with 1.5 and 1.25, will be adding additional support with what I have for extra.
Also after research I decided to do as recommended and go with a 6:1 ratio, may change to a 5:1 later on if I feel the need to, with also be going with #41 sprockets and 420 chain

 

[OzFab]

Wise decisions Better to be safe than sorry...

 

[Yamaha440SSKart]

any thoughts though about using a dual drive? worth it or a waste?

 

[OzFab]

That's a bit of an "either/or" situation, both have pro's & cons so, it would be a matter of making the list to see if it's viable...

I'm loath to say yes or no on this because, IMO, it's not a bad idea but, it's not necessarily a good one either...

Does that help?

 

[Yamaha440SSKart]

lol yeah, kinda like a yellow light, either you punch it and make it before its red and risk getting a ticket lol or wait for the next green and it's to late lol I have read up a lot of other people doing the arachnid build and having issues with the hinges if you would lol? I am thinking about scrapping those and using the angle steel to create those parts and will be able to properly align using a drill press?

 

[Yamaha440SSKart]

ok well after some looking at a Yamaha site for my sled, the factory gears were a 17t drive and a 29t driven, leading to a 1.7:1 ratio

 

[OzFab]

...Which leads us back to post #9

 

[Yamaha440SSKart]

I understand that lol, but here's my thought though, it is an older sled, meaning it was like 80% steel lol, like I know the skid out of it is heavier then **** lol, not to mention the track weight, and the engine frame lol, im thinking I may be close to the same weight. If the Yamaha engineers for that sled thought that it'd be a good ratio then im thinking it should be good here to? of course gearing a lil bit lower so maybe to a 2.5?

 

[Yamaha440SSKart]

Also I have looked through some others builds, I am thinking of getting rid using heim joints, and re-designing the A-arms in order to make up for the purpose of the heim joints. Any thoughts?