Need setup advice

BrownStainRacing

Well-known member
Messages
1,366
Reaction score
1,353
There's not a lot of clearance. And you can probably see that I'm not a welder. I'd like to avoid cutting the frame as I don't trust that I can put it back together and it be strong enough.
You might get a 44t on there.
Now the problem would be, how to lock the new hub to the old hub, or weld new hub to the axle???? If you can find a hub to go over the axle???
I'm sure there's something out there.
Keep digging, let us know when you get that axle out.
 

Thepartsguy

Well-known member
Messages
1,161
Reaction score
903
You might get a 44t on there.
Now the problem would be, how to lock the new hub to the old hub, or weld new hub to the axle???? If you can find a hub to go over the axle???
I'm sure there's something out there.
Keep digging, let us know when you get that axle out.
I don’t really know what he could even do here.... smallest axle sprocket I have ever ran with 5” rims is a 56t and that was pushing it. a 43t axle sprocket with a 212 just isn’t gonna work I don’t think. He’s running bigger tires then my small buggy wheels and that only makes things worse. the axle sprocket I think is just two small and everything about that kart is to close together everything almost touching everything. Find a welder.
 

Thepartsguy

Well-known member
Messages
1,161
Reaction score
903
13t clutch 13” tires and a 43t axle sprocket... missed that part no way that’s happening.. I run 14t clutches on modified 8hp’s that have a 1” output. both are 5” rims 60t sprockets 14t clutch. no bottom end power at all barely get moving. but the clutch will lock eventually and send me forward pretty quick. if I took of my 60t sprocket and put a 43t on the kart would not move an inch...
 

BrownStainRacing

Well-known member
Messages
1,366
Reaction score
1,353
13t clutch 13” tires and a 43t axle sprocket... missed that part no way that’s happening.. I run 14t clutches on modified 8hp’s that have a 1” output. both are 5” rims 60t sprockets 14t clutch. no bottom end power at all barely get moving. but the clutch will lock eventually and send me forward pretty quick. if I took of my 60t sprocket and put a 43t on the kart would not move an inch...
I think you are on to something with taking the sprocket off and keeping the old hub on and butting another hub and sprocket 40/41/420 to the old hub, welded or bolted to keep it from spinning.
Using a 30 series with a 6" driven, 8t and 44t on the axle, would get him a 13.75:1-14.85:1 gear on the low side, not the perfect outta the hole pulling gear for that buggy, but a lot better then the 3.3:1 he has now. A 7" driven would be more idea, 16.5:1-17.32:1 on the low side. That's 5 times the power to the tires, outta the hole, then he has now. Still, not perfect, but much better.

Some simple math, assuming 9.5 ft/lbs of torq from the stock pred 212.

13.75 x 9.5 = 130.625 ft/lbs to the tires.

17.32 x 9.5 = 164.54

He has now
3.3 x 9.5 = 31.35

torq to the tires is what moves weight
That's a huge difference.
 

Thepartsguy

Well-known member
Messages
1,161
Reaction score
903
I think you are on to something with taking the sprocket off and keeping the old hub on and butting another hub and sprocket 40/41/420 to the old hub, welded or bolted to keep it from spinning.
Using a 30 series with a 6" driven, 8t and 44t on the axle, would get him a 13.75:1-14.85:1 gear on the low side, not the perfect outta the hole pulling gear for that buggy, but a lot better then the 3.3:1 he has now. A 7" driven would be more idea, 16.5:1-17.32:1 on the low side. That's 5 times the power to the tires, outta the hole, then he has now. Still, not perfect, but much better.

Some simple math, assuming 9.5 ft/lbs of torq from the stock pred 212.

13.75 x 9.5 = 130.625 ft/lbs to the tires.

17.32 x 9.5 = 164.54

He has now
3.3 x 9.5 = 31.35

torq to the tires is what moves weight
That's a huge difference.
Sprocket hubs come with keys so I was wondering why on earth that sprocket was welded on in the first place? maybe that axle isn’t keyed? if it is the key keeps it from spinning. it would but up against a solid welded hub and a standard locking collar would hold the other side.
 

joshw0000

Well-known member
Messages
235
Reaction score
260
I think I'm going to need a new axle. Not only is it not keyed, look at this mess. I can't pull the axle in either direction because the brake and sprocket were welded on in reverse. The only way I see this axle coming off is in 2 pieces.
 

Attachments

  • PXL_20230402_172312211.jpg
    PXL_20230402_172312211.jpg
    2.2 MB · Views: 12

BrownStainRacing

Well-known member
Messages
1,366
Reaction score
1,353
To me it looks like you could Get the axle apart remove the 43t entirely then slide on a new hub/sprocket beside it matching the inboard t/q sprocket and you would just have a useless welded hub that’s there. Edit: not useless if you ever wanted to convert back to clutch the hub is there.View attachment 136910
Looking at this pic, a machine shop can make a spacer to line up the new sprocket. Of course, after mocking up a t/c and setting it up. He could even leave the old sprocket on for a flat surface to mate the spacer up. Jus gotta find a 40/41/420 sprocket with the same bolt pattern.

What you guys think???
 

BrownStainRacing

Well-known member
Messages
1,366
Reaction score
1,353
I think I'm going to need a new axle. Not only is it not keyed, look at this mess. I can't pull the axle in either direction because the brake and sprocket were welded on in reverse. The only way I see this axle coming off is in 2 pieces.
Did you get the bearing housings unbolted, theres a shoulder on each side, not letting it move until the bearings come off.
 

joshw0000

Well-known member
Messages
235
Reaction score
260
Did you get the bearing housings unbolted, theres a shoulder on each side, not letting it move until the bearings come off.
Not yet. My problem is the brake assembly. Even if I get it loose I can't slide the axle to the left because that bar is in the way.
 

BrownStainRacing

Well-known member
Messages
1,366
Reaction score
1,353
Not yet. My problem is the brake assembly. Even if I get it loose I can't slide the axle to the left because that bar is in the way.
That's why it needs to go to the right 1st. Remember, engine plate might need to come back off. Sry, don't mean to sound like a smarta$$, jus trying to help.
 

joshw0000

Well-known member
Messages
235
Reaction score
260
That's why it needs to go to the right 1st. Remember, engine plate might need to come back off. Sry, don't mean to sound like a smarta$$, jus trying to help.
No offense taken. But I still don't see how I'll get the sprocket off. The brake caliper can only come off to the left and sprocket can only come off to the right. So assuming I get the brake caliper off, I can't slide the axle back to the left far enough for it to pass the bushings and allow the sprocket to come off. It's as if they welded this part on in place.
 

BrownStainRacing

Well-known member
Messages
1,366
Reaction score
1,353
If the plate wasn't there, it would move to the right far enough for the axle to slide out and drop out on the left side. Then move it to left.
Once those bearing bolts are out, they will not jus slide off. Put the axle nuts bak on to protect the treads and wack each end til they come loose. Then they jus jump off.
 

BaconBitRacing

Well-known member
Messages
2,201
Reaction score
1,318
Location
N.C.
Good eye! Yupp that sprocket doesn’t look like it has room to grow much. I’m really trying to think of what I would do if it was in front of me. And it looks like I’d be cutting hangers and the Frame to make a t/q and a bigger sprocket work. Unless op can get a jackshaft working. still would be welding involved.
Thanks. I have 11' tires and 54T sprocket and under and inch of ground clearance which is okay on a yard kart but not ideal on an off-road kart.
 

joshw0000

Well-known member
Messages
235
Reaction score
260
If the plate wasn't there, it would move to the right far enough for the axle to slide out and drop out on the left side. Then move it to left.
Once those bearing bolts are out, they will not jus slide off. Put the axle nuts bak on to protect the treads and wack each end til they come loose. Then they jus jump off.
I feel dumb. Thanks for your patience. I got it off without cutting anything. Now to find a new sprocket!
 

Attachments

  • PXL_20230402_184755282.jpg
    PXL_20230402_184755282.jpg
    3.6 MB · Views: 3
  • PXL_20230402_184908690.jpg
    PXL_20230402_184908690.jpg
    2.9 MB · Views: 3
  • PXL_20230402_184601056.jpg
    PXL_20230402_184601056.jpg
    3.5 MB · Views: 3

BrownStainRacing

Well-known member
Messages
1,366
Reaction score
1,353
I feel dumb. Thanks for your patience. I got it off without cutting anything. Now to find a new sprocket!
Lmao. I wasn't gonna say anything. Trust me, I done the same dam thing when I seen the 1st one. I thought what freaking moron designed this crap. Then while enjoying a few cold adult beverages, and looking at it for hrs. It hit me. DUHHHHH!!!!!
I'm glad you didn't take that plate off. I hope you still don't.
I think a sprocket, some chain, a 30 series tav, sprocket spacer, will set you up. Have you seen any pics of the tav plate facing forward???? I can't tell if you have room for it or not.
 

joshw0000

Well-known member
Messages
235
Reaction score
260
Lmao. I wasn't gonna say anything. Trust me, I done the same dam thing when I seen the 1st one. I thought what freaking moron designed this crap. Then while enjoying a few cold adult beverages, and looking at it for hrs. It hit me. DUHHHHH!!!!!
I'm glad you didn't take that plate off. I hope you still don't.
I think a sprocket, some chain, a 30 series tav, sprocket spacer, will set you up. Have you seen any pics of the tav plate facing forward???? I can't tell if you have room for it or not.
Pardon my ignorance but what's a tav?

I was thinking a 60T sprocket (I found one on Amazon I believe will be a direct bolt on replacement), 40 chain, and 10T clutch.
 
Top