need advice on building a project

[bardo]

The only part about this I haven't done is designing the frame. I have worked on the suspension that I'm going to use for years same thing with the engine. I had a similar setup in a 88 dodge Daytona go 13.5 8 the 1/4 and that was a much heavier set up also was fwd so I do have a idea of how fast this will be but also know it comes do to me using common sense as when to lift. If no one wants to give me the info because they are worried I'll kill myself or they don't want to be responsible for the outcome that's fine but don't come up with bad reason of "you need a thought out plan" or " it will cost to much" cause to tell you the truth that's a waste of a post. The only thing I asked for was what metal to use. I have a idea but just wanted to make sure. I'm 75% I know what the framework will look like. What other info would the diy go kart gods require to fulfill my request?

 

[bardo]

OK; a quick question for you; if I've never actually built one, how should I answer your questions. Honesty? Or blowhard #1?

This question is one of the things that makes me feel like you guys are trying to jack me around. If you have never built one and don't have a answer to my question, that's fine. I know I'm asking something that doesn't come up often and I know this cause information on the Web is limited. But if you don't know why are you making a post to defend the fact that you don't know?

 

[OzFab]

Ok so that's it? To much hp and speed so don't bother us with the questions? it's nothing we are use to dealing with and have no info on the matter?

Whoa, take it easy, I didn't say we can't or won't help you but, you need to remember, this is not the type of build we usually deal with...

This question is one of the things that makes me feel like you guys are trying to jack me around. If you have never built one and don't have a answer to my question, that's fine. I know I'm asking something that doesn't come up often and I know this cause information on the Web is limited. But if you don't know why are you making a post to defend the fact that you don't know?

That's just the point, It's not that we "are tyring to jack you around", most of us have never even worked on anything of this calibre. Personally, after 20+ years in the auto industry, I've worked on anything from Toyota Corollas to Rolls Royces to door slammer drag cars so, I know what's involved, I just wanted to be sure you did...

Don't think that I'm trying to get rid of you but, you may be better off somewhere like the mini buggy forum, those guys deal with this kind of build every day. Again, not because I'm trying to get rid of you or because we can't/won't help you, it just seems like it may be a better fit for you.

Having said that, we will help in any way we can

Ok, my first question (as opposed to statement) is did the engine/trans come from a front or rear wheel drive car? (I'm in Australia so I may not be familiar with the car)

 

[bardo]

It came from a 89 dodge caravan. Fwd 4 cylinder. I'm sorry if I seem upset it's just seem this thread was getting a lot of attention but for all the wrong reasons and I was chasing my tail. Let's try this question if I was to do the same build with let's say a 750 -1000 cc bike engine how would it be done? With that info I should be able to make the correct adjustments for my application.

 

[OzFab]

That actually makes things a lot easier as what used to be the front hubs can be locked in place & become the rear hubs. The original engine subframe will also come in very handy...

The next thing I suggest you do is have a look at this vid & the others in the series for tips & ideas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCzZmfM_aAQ

 

[bardo]

I'm not trying to be a smart ace but I knew this a d that was another reason (aside from already owing it) I wanted to use it. I was going to use everything from the front end of a 90 dodge omni because it's a bit narrower and that's what will give me my 67 inch width. Ex K frames a arms axle hubs ect. The shocks are questionable because of the weight difference but I don't think it will be to far being the omni was the lightest of the fwd dodges.

 

[Poboy kartman]

I understand that. It just seems to me like everyone thinks this is a 300 hp monster and it's not. Stock it made 150 hp 180tq at around 3500 rpm. People are saying use a truck frame for it and I don't think that will be necessary.

I said look to SMALL pick-up frames as a GUIDE! My Toyota makes about 135 hp stock. The reason I said that is because cars use the body as part of the structure. I don't know where I got the idea this was an off-road kart- But you will have so much hp that trying to schrimp on the frame is just plain STUPID! !! But I never figured you for a genuis- you obviously aren't smart enough to fill out a profile. You stomp your feet like a two year old if you don't think people here are responding fast enough or giving you the answers you want. Can't find "complete" information on the web? HMMMM? MMMMMMM........Since when? People have been building buggies since the 60's......

What size steel to use depends on how well the frame is designed and the wheelbase/ engine location and load.......it also depends on whether you want safety or just like flirting with death.

Anyway fill out your profile and open your eyes and shut your whiney mouth and don't ask questions you don't want the answers to.

 

[bardo]

Why do you feel the need to call name? I'm willing to wait for the answers I just see no reason for useless post like the last two you have made. I'm not being cheap on the frame if there was a better answer then what I recommend I would love go hear it but unfortunately all I have been seeing is negative towards the idea. Even small truck frames are designed for carrying around 3000lbs/ 1.5 tons. If my kart weighs that I wouldn't even consider building it. I know people have been building these things for a long time and I can find examples all over the place of different builds. The closest thing I have found to what I'm looking for is what fab posted a video of. As for asking questions I don't want the answer to. You still haven't answered the first question I asked so why ask another?


Fabro. Thanks I did find some good info on the other site.

 

[Poboy kartman]

I didn't call you know any names and you haven't answered my question and have dismissed my suggestion out of hand as you have many others. Without seeing your plan no one can suggest what size and weight steel you should use. You were told that we needed more details but you ignored that because you don't have them. You want to know what size steel to use then you are going to design the frame????

You called my posts usless- but you may not realize other people may be considering the same thing and here we like to err on the side of saftey. And the fact that you can't seem to find exactly what you are looking for probably means it's been done before- they're just not around anymore to answer.

And I treat everyone nicer if they take the time and consideration to fill out their profile- (at least where they are from).

Finally- Yes small truck frames are overengineered to carry much more weight. But my Toyota is only a half-ton. And yes it is carrying the body weight- but that sheetmetal is also adding rigidity to the frame.

So- other than thanking Fab- I think your last post was pretty pointless as well.

 

[bardo]

Most parts will come from mid 80's to early 90 s dodge. Don't care to much about the looks being it's not a show car it's a toy. I'm most likely going to run a 5x100 bolt pattern 14x6/7 inch rim with 225s at all 4 corners. Not sure of the length yet but I'm thinking 67 wide in the back and 60 up front. Rear engine and trans if I do it right the factory shift linkage can be reused. Most likely going to need a fuel cell. I need to see how much room the engine a d trans take up after I build the rear end then add about 3 inches for where the back of the seat will be then once I sit in it find out where my feet end up. I would like my heels sitting in the center of the front wheel. Now that I have answered most of the questions can someone please tell me if 2.5x2.5 .120 will work for the frame or should I go with 1 3/4 .120 round stock?

The rear end parts will be from a 90 dodge omni because it's is a bit narrower. (67 inches wide compared to 72) for ease of use, adjustable and to keep cost down was thinking of building a arms with heim joints for the front. For the rear building the frame to accept the omni K - frame. It bolts to the car with 4 grade 8 bolts so just build the frame to line up with it. Use the factory hubs, struts, and a arms as well. This will give me caster and camber options for the rear and over all 4 wheel independent suspension.

other then this what information do you need. I'm not sure how long it's going to be yet because I don't have everything laid out on the floor with where the seat going to go and how much spacing will be behind it once I put the fuel cell back there.

I said look I don't know where I got the idea this was an off-road kart- But you will have so much hp that trying to schrimp on the frame is just plain STUPID! !! But I never figured you for a genuis- you obviously aren't smart enough to fill out a profile. You stomp your feet like a two year old if you don't think people here are responding fast enough or giving you the answers you want.

That's just another way of skinning a cat and then calling me childish.

 

[bardo]

Looking to build something along the lines of this http://youtu.be/dwtxZMnjhTo

If you were to read the whole thread and not just the parts you wanted you would see I even included a video of what I was looking to build. Only difference is I want a single seat and a little bigger engine.

Also I filled out my profile can someone please tell me how that help me find out the information I need?

 

[Poboy kartman]

Talk about worthless posts..........FYI- I have read the whole thread and seen the video. At this point it's not going to be your location that is going to hinder you but your attitude. ........

 

[bardo]

What do you want me to do? I have given you all the info I have and you have asked for twice. Here are some answers to questions that haven't come up yet but might be relevant. I'm looking for around 8 inches of ground clearance. Over all height of 48 and a weight of 1200-1300 lbs.

 

[bardo]

Talk about worthless posts..........FYI- I have read the whole thread and seen the video. At this point it's not going to be your location that is going to hinder you but your attitude. ........

How was that a worthless post you said you needed info on what I wanted to build and I showed you it again.

 

[Poboy kartman]

Steel, heims, steering linkage, shift linkage, all that isn't exactly cheap if you want to have a nice looking well engineered kart rather than a cobbled together machine. What wheels and tires are you using? What's the layout, front or rear engine? What fuel tank are you using? What is your wheelbase? Sounds like it's either going to be a wheelie machine or a burnout machine.

Answered all whose questions?

As far as what to do. ....re-read the whole thread and this time try to view the responses as people trying to help you the best way they know how. Cut out the negativity and wisecracks and DO wait for the answer. If someone can give you a definitive answer they will- I can't. I don't consider myself qualified for that. I have already told you that you should design the frame and all the details and then decide on what strength needs to be. Wheelbase is the length and width of the spacing of the tire footprint. One of which is undecided. ......

If you had a drawing of the planned frame you would probably have answers by now.

But the very nature of your question puts doubt on your ability to successfully pull it off. I happen to be in that group. No one is trying to "jerk you around" or belittle you- just giving you their opinions on what you are up against and whether or not it's the right thing for you to do.

Let me put it this way- I don't have to be an expert tile setter to have doubts on a person's ability to do it when they hold up a ceramic tile and ask-" I just want to know one thing: does the shiny side face out or go to the wall?"

BTW- Welcome to the forum and thanks for filling out your profile.

 

[OzFab]

Ok, Doug, I get it but, settle down please.

Bardo, In many ways, he's right, you need some idea of a design before you start throwing parts at it but, let's go back to your original question:

I'm looking to build a frame out of 2 1/2x 2 1/2 square stock. I'm also looking to put a 4 cylinder engine and trans in it.

Of all the automotive frames I've ever seen, they've all been either round tube or rectangle tube, I have no idea why engineers have never used square tube but, I can imagine why. For starters rectangle tube is more resistent to "torque twist".

Back in the mid 80s, Holden (Australian GM) produced a car that had the option of an I4, I6 or V8. In later years, those who planned on building up one of these cars with a worked V8 were recommended to find a 4 cylinder version because the body/chassis would have no torque twist where the V8 version usually did...

Most truck frames are made of two parallel rectangle tubes with round tube crossmembers, perhaps you should look iinto something along those lines...

 

[bardo]

I answered the questions in post 10 ( the one you quoted) in post 12. Again proof you didn't read everything just the parts you wanted

 

[OzFab]

Ok, now it's your turn; I'm trying to be the nice guy here but, settle down or I'll lock this thread down...

 

[bardo]

I shouldn't have torque twist being this is a rear engine rear drive car. Let's say for the sake of this thread I want to build something just like the one in the video I posted but without the quad axle but a irs. What would I be looking at?

 

[OzFab]

I'm not sure I completely understand what you're asking but, If you mount the engine/trans in the rear, you can use all the original suspension & axles. By also using the original subframe, all you need to do is mount the subframe to the main chassis rails, create strut towers & bolt it all together. As for the steerable hubs, simply remove the rack & create tierods that attach to the subframe