Mystery Locking???

[JTSpeedDemon]

Ok, wow, here's a real problem for you guys!
So the standard Raptor rod's oil clearance checked out at 0.002", so that's done. And I cleaned up the cylinder.
Now there's another problem. *facepalm*
You may remember it would mysteriously turn almost 2 whole revolutions and then lock. When I turned it the other way, it would unlock.
That was when the piston/con rod were still not installed, but the sidecover was.
Now it's STILL happening!!! I thought it was the governor gear, but I already pulled it. I also fiddled with the governor arm to make sure it wasn't interfering. No difference.
It always locks near the bottom of the compression stroke, and it locks hard enough that if I try to keep turning it, it just tips the block.
With the sidecover off, it spins nice and freely. It locks once the sidecover gets onto the dowel pins and the crank and cam bearing surfaces. The crank and cam both move up slightly when this happens, and once that all happens, it locks.
Nothing is contacting in the crankcase, that's not the problem.

I'm completely at a loss what to do. HELP!!

 

[Randy H]

Ok, wow, here's a real problem for you guys!

You have no idea what a real problem is.

You may remember it would mysteriously turn 3 revolutions and then lock. When I turned it the other way, it would unlock.
That was when the piston/con rod were still not installed, but the sidecover was.

What did you do to fix it then?

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

No, I never fixed it. I assumed it was the governor gear.
Any ideas what it could be? The cam gear teeth look clear.

 

[Randy H]

You probably have the cam timing messed up.

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

Nope. Cam has never come out, and the marks line up. The engine ran before.
Cylinder head and starter are off, it's not a flywheel problem either.
It turns fine for almost 2 whole revolutions, and then it locks mechanically near the bottom of the compression stroke, a lot like there's something in the cam gear, but it's only with the sidecover on.

 

[Randy H]

Take out that governor lever. Or see if you can move it when the engine locks up.

Other than that, IDK.

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

Yeah, I moved the governor arm when it was locked up, no difference.
I'll try oiling the stuff in the back of the crankcase and see how that goes.

 

[Hellion]

Two whole revolutions of the crank and it locks up, that's weird man.

Can you hear a metal on metal 'clank' when it locks up?
I say you're going to have to shine some lights in the crankcase and use a dental mirror or something that will allow you to see the entire firing order; intake/compression/power/exhaust x2.... and look for a mechanical obstruction.

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

Heh, just saw your post right after I solved it.
You were right, and so was my gut. Mechanical obstruction. There was a little piece of loose metal between two of the teeth on the cam gear. Took it out with a screwdriver, and it spins over nice and freely!
Yeah it was weird.

 

[BigWes]

It's called FOD. It's why I'm such an a$$ about keeping stuff clean when I take it apart. Imagine if you we're flying along on an airline an some jackass airplane mechanic left a piece of trash inside the engine cowling...no telling what could happen...you got lucky...that debris made itself known before you bolted the sideplate back on... imagine if you missed it and you was accelerating into turn 4 and it made its way into that gear!

 

[Hellion]

Ya gotta decode the acronyms, Wes. Them civvies don't know what ya mean. In this case it's Foreign Object Damage, si?

...You were right, and so was my gut. Mechanical obstruction. There was a little piece of loose metal between two of the teeth on the cam gear....

Cleanliness is next to Godliness, or something like that.

With that being said, I'm not all that surprised seeing that deplorable engine condition! Yucky!

When I crack my cases open, I wipe out all the old oil and sludge and clean everything while I inspect. Now that piece of metal debris would have me concerned--how did it get there? Hmm....

 

[Randy H]

Your getting some good advice and well deserved criticism.

Hey it is your first rodeo. Lol. As long as you learn.

I'm more of a motorcycle guy (used to be). No comparison to aviation stuff. Still the thought of a chunk of debris, anyplace is cringe worthy. A grain of sand can wreck hundreds of dollars worth of machining work.

Then it's MFFOD. That's the family friendly version.

 

[Randy H]

Heh, just saw your post right after I solved it.
You were right, and so was my gut. Mechanical obstruction. There was a little piece of loose metal between two of the teeth on the cam gear. Took it out with a screwdriver, and it spins over nice and freely!
Yeah it was weird.

After rereading this. I have to ask. Where did the chunk of loose metal come from?
Kind of a rhetorical question.

Aluminum? steel? cast iron? Is it indeed foreign or was it actually native, as in part of your engine at one time?

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

It was kind of round. I just discarded it so I don't know what material it was, but it was kind or soft.
I have 2 theories how it got there:
1 - I solder on that workbench sometimes. It seemed like a blob of solder, so I think it hitched a ride into the crankcase on the rag I used.
2 - It may have been a piece of loose aluminum or steel from when I messed up the shroud bolt hole.

I'll never really know, but it's a good experience to have now, instead of in the future, when I'm working on my only transportation.
Gonna put it all back together today now rhat I cleaned up the head and sidecover bolt threads. Can't wait to hear it fire!
I HATE FOD!!

 

[BigWes]

As spoken above, it came from somewhere...

Discern the point of origin.

Determine the level of damage.

Decide on a course of action as required.

And clean as you go. Good housekeeping in the workplace will not only save time and effort but money as well...and personal injury or death depending upon the circumstances.

Just a simple uncleaned oil spill can cause a slip and fall...hence the personal injury statement...shop safety!

Dang...I sound like a safety guy and I hate those bozos... arggggg....

Clean that engine!!!!

And everything else too!!!

Get'em guys!!! Lol!!!

 

[BigWes]

We'll call this one Foreign Object Debris since it has yet to be determined if it has caused Damage. If Damages occur then the aftermath would be FOD damage. Or Foreign Object Damage. So there you go...once the debris breaks away from a part it becomes foreign... regardless...as it does not belong where it is. Internal failure caused by FOD in this case because the maintainer failed to identify the debris during his repairs. Just that simple.

Learn and move on...he caught it this time and prevented a catastrophic situation.

Keep looking!

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

Yeah for sure. Today I'm going to oil all the rotating stuff and get any and all debris OUTTA there!
Need to make sure it didn't cause premature wear on the cam gear system.
I may not have had a catastrophic situation, it would probably just not turn over, but in any case, it's a good thing I found out before I reassembled it.
If I use 20 weight oil to lube the internals before reassembling and then fill it with 30 weight, will that create problems?
Also, the 4 bolts around the PTO, what thread are they usually? The threads in there look pretty terrible.

 

[Randy H]

I think it will be ok to go with your oiling plan. As a general rule you shouldn't mix brands and types though. Maybe that's an old wives (mechanic wives) tale. But if you follow that rule you won't have to worry about it.
Oil the parts up before assembly.

Pretty sure the bolts are 5/16" fine thread (5/16-24). Before trying to thread anything in, maybe try some q-tips and even dish washing liquid to break up and totally remove the grime.

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

I ended up just using a funnel to drip Mobil 1 5W-30 synthetic onto the various surfaces that needed it.
I also replaced the sidecover gasket and oil seal. Man! That gasket was HARD AS ROCK! I literally soaked it in PB Blaster and broke out the scrapers!
Once I got it off, I put the new one on, and of course put in the new oil seal.
I ended up having the clock the governor arm a bit to get adequate throw before it hit the governor shaft, but that's no biggie. No interference whatsoever.
I also replaced the sidecover lockwashers to make sure they won't come loose, and now the sidecover and cylinder head are torqued down to spec with fresh gaskets.

Now I've got YET ANOTHER problem!
The drive part of the starter clutch that the pulley drives is NOT going on the crankshaft!!!
What am I missing?!
I have two other starter clutches I could try to steal parts from, but I want to make sure I'm not missing something. This very same part fit on there before, and the shaft is NOT mushroomed.
Help!

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

Oops, nevermind.
The Haynes manual says to apply oil to the crankshaft when installing this sealed style clutch. I'll do that.


---------- Post added at 04:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 PM ----------

Hmm, just read this:https://itstillruns.com/can-synthetic-motor-oil-mixed-6868135.html
Looks like putting in Castrol 30 after I primed everything with Mobil 1 5W-30 synthetic won't harm anything. Which is good since we're almost out of the Mobil 1, but we've got literally BOXES of Castrol 30!