my plans for a high end track cart

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statsi75

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to start off with this is a high performance track cart intendid to go 150 plus i will be using a ford windstar engien generating 200hp at 4900 rpm and 240 ft lb torque eventualy i want to upgrade to two dual turbo rx7 engiens or posibly two porche 911 turbo air cooled engiens im planing on using carbon fiber tubing frome dragonplate to cut down on weight for exhaust i will use 4 junked motorcycle exhausts when done it will look somewhat like an arial atom

first id like to know if the carbon fiber frame is a good option i am not concernd with price my main concerns are weight and rigidety 2nd id like to know if you guys think the motorcycle pipes will provide enough flow

all other parts at first will be out of the windstar eventual plan to upgrade to high quality preformance parts
 

iRenaat

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to start off with this is a high performance track cart intendid to go 150 plus i will be using a ford windstar engien generating 200hp at 4900 rpm and 240 ft lb torque eventualy i want to upgrade to two dual turbo rx7 engiens or posibly two porche 911 turbo air cooled engiens im planing on using carbon fiber tubing frome dragonplate to cut down on weight for exhaust i will use 4 junked motorcycle exhausts when done it will look somewhat like an arial atom

first id like to know if the carbon fiber frame is a good option i am not concernd with price my main concerns are weight and rigidety 2nd id like to know if you guys think the motorcycle pipes will provide enough flow

all other parts at first will be out of the windstar eventual plan to upgrade to high quality preformance parts

Yeah right.
 

Pellethuntr2

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I say we take him seriously... that said I am guessing u want something like the RipSaw tracked vehicle when ur done???
 

jorge0136

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Carbon fiber is incredbly hard to form. It has to be vaccumed sealed to cure correctly. Your idea sounds vaguely farmilar. http://www.dpcars.net/

This guy has done something similar. He started with a hayabusa engine and ended up with a prototype v8 in his car. The thing is nearly as quick as some f1 cars. However the amount of raw engineering and ability to actually build parts was amazing. Why the ford motor? If price is no consequence there are far better engines. Additionly price had better be no consequence if you want to use carbon fiber. As far as the rigidty, strength etc.. of the material there is nothinb better, but you almost have to custom form the material to every project as it does have it's weaknesses as well.

Get back to us if you are serious would love to see you build something crazy.
 

Rotore

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i say use the engine off a fwd or a rwd that has mid engine becase of the shorter transmission and drop the windstar dude. and carbon fiber tubing is going to leave u homeless.

but realisticly speaking i say go for a 13b-re (N/A) or a turbocharged mc engine.
 

freakboy

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Dude be real about this just used steel it give flex which is good. and scale it the **** down unless you wana blow 30 grand on this thing quick.
 

statsi75

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this is pland as something like a five year project and i hope to sell it when im done i go to uti and i would like to eventualy start this up as a buisness the windstar to start with is just becaus thear free parts to see if the idea will work i will origonaly use tub steel to get it perfect ie dont want to screw up with the carbonfiber to answer the issue with forming dragonplate sells pre foarmd tubes an conectors as far as the mony issue this is a track car if i was going to buy one i would be dumping at least 50 grand so 30 isint really a problem the i expect the finished product to preforme at at least as well as a carrara gt in fact the only thig cart like is the size and shape of the finished product
 

EagleTalons

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i say use the engine off a fwd or a rwd that has mid engine becase of the shorter transmission and drop the windstar dude. and carbon fiber tubing is going to leave u homeless.

but realisticly speaking i say go for a 13b-re (N/A) or a turbocharged mc engine.

Yea, use a rotary, those are pretty sweet how much power they can create in such a small space.
 

jorge0136

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http://dragonplate.com/ecart/categories.asp?cID=65

I get it now on the carbon fiber. I don't think anyone here has any experience using it. Additionally it doesn't sound as though you have any experience with it either. I would suggest steel for at least your first chassis. A body to hold the chassis rigid could be done in theory. An entirely carbon fiber chassis is something I know i don't have the engineering skill to even think about. Even if i did I would want to draw it up in cad and do finite element analysis on it in every imaginable position. I think you lose some of the strengths of carbon fiber when you are using preformed members in the same way that if you could machine a steel chassis out of a huge piece of billet you could design it to be many times stronger than something welded together. This can be done in carbon fiber as you have to mold it anyhow.

http://dpcars.net/(click on the atom on the list of cars on the left) This guy has a Arial atom that he took apart and added a hayabusa based v8 into. He decided that many of the chassis parts that Arial initially designed were terrible designs and redesigned them to be safe. The guy has done the work you are thinking of already and should be a great resource for you. His atom is downright scary.

UTI meaning the universal technical institute? How much do they teach you to run engines there versus design chassis? The ford windstar engine would probably work to move the thing and might be perfect for the first attempt at a car. However if you really want performance I would suggest one of a dozen different options built to go fast rather than move a van for free. Do you have a design drawn up for the frame yet?
 

statsi75

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my main concern with the carbonfiber is that it will be to stiff and crack the reason im concearnd about the moter cycal exahusts is that they usualy handel out put from a 700cc engien not two high performenc car engiens other words im slightly concernd it will be like trying to force a huricane through a straw and creat to much back pressure
 

statsi75

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jorge0136 using preformed carbon fiber tubin is prity simpal its just like using tube steal except you use an adheisev instead of welding just like welding the adhisive is stronger than the matirial. it would definitly be better to make it out of one peace but desinging fiber layouts is something for EXPERTS. yes i have a basic design but i have yet to put it in my cad program as far as uti is concerned it is more repair focused but i have always been a supurbe designer in fact im curently working on a gas turbine design for cars.
 

statsi75

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"http://dpcars.net/(click on the atom on the list of cars on the left) This guy has a Arial atom that he took apart and added a hayabusa based v8 into. He decided that many of the chassis parts that Arial initially designed were terrible designs and redesigned them to be safe."
that is absolutly amazing ive bean wanting to do the same thing except with a 4.3 liter 1001 horsepower koenigsegg ccxr engien but thats just way to expensive even for me well one can dream lol
 

jorge0136

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The actual manipulation work of the carbon fiber itself I am sure is easier than working with steel however the design would be something entirely new. The way you use fiber is incredebly important.

The dragon plate website says it more elquently then I ever can so "

Pros and Cons

Carbon fiber reinforced composites have several highly desirable traits that can be exploited in the design of advanced materials and systems. The two most common uses for carbon fiber are in applications where high strength to weight and high stiffness to weight are desirable. These include aerospace, military structures, robotics, wind turbines, manufacturing fixtures, sports equipment, and many others. High toughness can be accomplished when combined with other materials. Certain applications also exploit carbon fiber's electrical conductivity, as well as high thermal conductivity in the case of specialized carbon fiber. Finally, in addition to the basic mechanical properties, carbon fiber creates a unique and beautiful surface finish.

Although carbon fiber has many significant benefits over other materials, there are also tradeoffs one must weigh against. First, solid carbon fiber will not yield. Under load carbon fiber bends but will not remain permanently deformed. Instead, once the ultimate strength of the material is exceeded, carbon fiber will fail suddenly and catastrophically. In the design process it is critical that the engineer understand and account for this behavior, particularly in terms of design safety factors. Carbon fiber composites are also significantly more expensive than traditional materials. Working with carbon fiber requires a high skill level and many intricate processes to produce high quality building materials (for example, solid carbon sheets, sandwich laminates, tubes, etc). Very high skill level and specialized tooling and machinery are required to create custom-fabricated, highly optimized parts and assemblies.

Carbon Fiber vs. Metals
When designing composite parts, one cannot simply compare properties of carbon fiber versus steel, aluminum, or plastic, since these materials are in general homogeneous (properties are the same at all points in the part), and have isotropic properties throughout (properties are the same along all axes). By comparison, in a carbon fiber part the strength resides along the axis of the fibers, and thus fiber properties and orientation greatly impact mechanical properties. Carbon fiber parts are in general neither homogeneous nor isotropic.

The properties of a carbon fiber part are close to that of steel and the weight is close to that of plastic. Thus the strength to weight ratio (as well as stiffness to weight ratio) of a carbon fiber part is much higher than either steel or plastic. The specific details depend on the matter of construction of the part and the application. For instance, a foam-core sandwich has extremely high strength to weight ratio in bending, but not necessarily in compression or crush. In addition, the loading and boundary conditions for any components are unique to the structure within which they reside. Thus it is impossible for us to provide the thickness of carbon fiber plate that would replace the steel plate in your application. It is the customer's responsibility to determine the safety and suitability of any Dragonplate product for a specific purpose. This is accomplished through engineering analysis and experimental validation. "

The design of a steel chassis for the first time is tricky enough not to mention when you need to keep in mind exactly which way your force will be applied all of the time. It would take one time to have the part resisting a crushing force and it would "once the ultimate strength of the material is exceeded, carbon fiber will fail suddenly and catastrophically. " You would have to use the different strengths and weaknesses of the different types of carbon fiber to create something safe. Hence the cad work and element analysis. Chassis work and turbines are two very different creatures, design wise. Speaking of which do tell about the turbine. Are you designing the turbine yourself or placing an existing turbine in a car?
 

statsi75

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for this kind of thing im thinking the pre fab parts will be strong enough they are yoused for scafolding i will definitly be asking for recomendations straight from the company the complicated orientation of the fibers in the matirial is why im going to use pre fab parts if i made it frome cloth it would probobly break instantly
 

statsi75

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as fare as the turbine gose i was considering puting in an existing turbine but scraped the idea becaus of fule eficency so instead im basing my design on mini turbines i will try to explain the reasoning behind this
gas turbines turn at incredably high rpms ie 50000 or more they are actualy quite efficent when rune at speed ie you could run a 300 horsepower gase turbine at speed for an hour on something like 27 gallons of fule it will be generating 300 hp the whole time this is great in compearison with a standerd gass engien the unfortinat part about gas turbines is they do not like to be run slow in fact at idal they use almoset the same amount of fule as they do when runing at full speed
becaus of theas problems i am desining an engien using multipal gas turbines about the size of a car cilinder when you need less power the cars computer would simply turn some off this also solves the need for a waste gate curently if you dont have one the care will spin out in corners becaus you have so much power and torque
 

statsi75

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the reason im using cf is that weight is the moste important factor in a car like this the reasone the atom preformes so well is that it weighs 500 kg dry basicly theas kind of cars are great becaus of extreamly high power to weight ratio this is also why i want to use rotary engiens
 

Phatvortex

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Is this a troll?

You can't spell, and you're talking about fabricating GTEs and building chassis out of carbon fibre?
 

jmorey92

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you cant spell great either .. like "carbon fibre" is a word. if youre going to criticize someone do it right.
 
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