MIG or TIG?

[Doc Sprocket]

I have heard of AC/DC inverter arc welders with a scratch-start TIG option. Unfortunately, I know nothing about it. Sorry!

 

[machinist@large]

But I do have a question,
I was wondering if the TIG of that multi-functional machine is the same TIG as a normal one? I heard the guy saying that you first had to scratch the metal and then you'll get your spark. But, if you scratch your metal, you're damaging your tip?

Regards,
Nodroz

If its only a DC machine, it won't have High Frequency capabilities to enable scratch-less starts. That being said, you can add a tig torch for welding ferrous metals to any DC capable stick power source; you just have to add the torch, gas valve, hoses and tank. You don't even need to add a cooler if you go with a gas cooled torch (the shielding gas for the weld cools the torch as it flows thru it). In this application you have to scratch start the arc, just like you would a stick electrode.

 

[Nodroz]

If its only a DC machine, it won't have High Frequency capabilities to enable scratch-less starts. That being said, you can add a tig torch for welding ferrous metals to any DC capable stick power source; you just have to add the torch, gas valve, hoses and tank. You don't even need to add a cooler if you go with a gas cooled torch (the shielding gas for the weld cools the torch as it flows thru it). In this application you have to scratch start the arc, just like you would a stick electrode.

Oh, thank you.

 

[Nodroz]

Alright, this is tomorrow's schedule:

I'm going back to the shop where they offered me that multifunctional machine. The machine alone costs €1300.

Today, a friend from my dad braught his TIG machine, worth €1200, to me and he showed me how it worked and what you can do with it. TIG is truly an amazing procedure!

Anyhow, so I'm going to the shop and I'm going to ask the people what exactly I can't do with the TIG fucntion on the multifunctional machine which I can do on the regular TIG machine.

If there it's just minimal things, I'll go for the multifunctional machine. I already got somebody who's willing to give me his bottle of gas for MIG. Then I just have to get a %100 argon bottle for TIG.

After all, the price for MIG + TIG + arc will be 100 euro more than the TIG alone. Depending on how much the solo TIG can do more than the multi, I'll choose.

I'll keep you updated tomorrow!

(My opinions have been changing A LOT about welding. First MIG, then TIG, then back to MIG, then multi and then TIG once again. It's been a busy month for me and my parents and I hope I will be able to choose between the multi of the real TIG. The reason I'm making choise between TIG and the multi is because the guy who showed me about TIG today, really impressed me what TIG is capable of.

Speak you tomorrow!

If its only a DC machine, it won't have High Frequency capabilities to enable scratch-less starts. That being said, you can add a tig torch for welding ferrous metals to any DC capable stick power source; you just have to add the torch, gas valve, hoses and tank. You don't even need to add a cooler if you go with a gas cooled torch (the shielding gas for the weld cools the torch as it flows thru it). In this application you have to scratch start the arc, just like you would a stick electrode.

The guy that showed me the TIG demo had a WECO Inverter TIG DC Discovery 171T MAX. It's DC, yet we were able to do a scratch-less start? I just pressed the button whilst holding the torch near the metal.

Or are you talking about some other DC thing?

 

[OzFab]

I refer you to my origial post &, again, say that TIG is great for detail welding but is also slower where MIG is quick & easy so, a multifunction machine with a true MIG setup is probably the way to go.

 

[fowler]

iv only seen 1 multi funtion machine that could tig ally and it made a rubbish job
i wasnt using it a boiler maker was

those multifution machines are a good mig machine that are just trying to out do the compatition and screw u out of a bit more money by throwing "multifuntion" and "TIG" into the pamphet and their ads
the tig bit is just for looks

the mutli function mig sticks go god though

if u want a god easy welder to knock up a gokart frame then mig

if u wanna make a gokart with a polished chome moly frame and take it to shows and events and in the mean time get into model making then a tig\


i just re read 1/2 the thread
tig would probs be a good chioce for u
if u are sticking to the gokart hobby + making odd things out of odd metal (the ally table)
then u will be able to put up with the slow weld time in exchange for the versatillity

im thinking of someone who will use the welder for a farm or maybe for there work

 

[Nodroz]

Finally, it's here!

After driving from shop to shop, calling a lot of people for information and ideas, and annoying other people on forums with this spam, I finally bough a welder!

I got the multifunctional now! If I ever want to experience the begin of TIG, I'll still be able to do with the same machine.

Santo claus got in early!

I'll be updating you with some welding pictures tomorrow.

 

[souperman000]

Sweet! Glad you finally got what you felt was best for your situation. Reseach like this is a very good idea in my opinion. Always be sure you are buying what fits your needs best rather than the first one you see that "sounds" cool.

It can do MIG and TIG?

 

[Nodroz]

Sweet! Glad you finally got what you felt was best for your situation. Reseach like this is a very good idea in my opinion. Always be sure you are buying what fits your needs best rather than the first one you see that "sounds" cool.

It can do MIG and TIG?

I hope it was well worth the search and visiting all those shops! We'll see tomorrow when I start welding.

I can do MIG, TIG and stick welding. With TIG you have to do a "scratch start". It's a little different than the scratch start with a normal DC stick welder, as I have a button to control the flow + I have some post flow.

TIG will be for later, once I got a bottle of Argon. Will probably around next month when I'm done experimenting with MIG.

I'll show some more pictures tomorrow.

 

[OzFab]

I'll be updating you with some welding pictures tomorrow.

But it's not christmas for another three days

 

[Nodroz]

Great... Why me? WHY?!?!

I just packed out everything, got my bottles of gas and started up the welder, until I saw it's not starting up...

When I plug in the machine and put the button to on, the fan starts to work, but that's all. No signs of anything else whatsoever. The light indicator "ON" is not lighting up, when I attach my torch and press the button, nothing happens aswell, neither of all buttons do something.

It's probably broken already. Fabric mistake? Whatever, I'm not happy right now. A machine that costs you €1300 (excl tax) MUST work.

Another sad thing that comes together with this is that the shop closes for almost 2 weeks, till after new year...
I already sent a mail talking about my problem so they believe me it happened right when I unpacked it...

Seriously, why me? Aargh.

 

[OzFab]

Whoa, slow down; silly question but, have you looked over the manual? Sometimes it helps. Also, if the power & wire feed setting is turned down it won't do anything. Final question; does it have a selector switch to go from mig to tig/arc?

 

[Nodroz]

Whoa, slow down; silly question but, have you looked over the manual? Sometimes it helps. Also, if the power & wire feed setting is turned down it won't do anything. Final question; does it have a selector switch to go from mig to tig/arc?

Yes, but the manual doesn't appear to cover really much.

There's a light indicater with the text "ON" above it. This should light up as soon as you start your machine. Yet nothing happens.
When pressing the selector for switching between all the various modes, nothing happens. Nothing lights up.

I can't find any information on the internet either about this machine.

I'll read through the manual a last time, maybe I haven't read something yet.

EDIT: I uploaded a picture to help you familiarize you with the machine's front panel.

 

[dadindy]

Hello Nodroz,

I used to work as a sheet metal worker and welder many years ago and I remember that the mig sets don't run on the same electrical supply of electric as such as arc or tig welders do....

The Power Source Direct current, constant potential (voltage) power sources are used for most mig welding. This contrasts with tig and stick electrode welding which use constant current power sources. A mig power source provides a relatively constant voltage to the arc during welding.

Maybe your electrical outlet is incorrect?

 

[Nodroz]

Hello Nodroz,

I used to work as a sheet metal worker and welder many years ago and I remember that the mig sets don't run on the same electrical supply of electric as such as arc or tig welders do....

The Power Source Direct current, constant potential (voltage) power sources are used for most mig welding. This contrasts with tig and stick electrode welding which use constant current power sources. A mig power source provides a relatively constant voltage to the arc during welding.

Maybe your electrical outlet is incorrect?

Thanks for your additional information.
That's all good and well, but if I can't even change the mode (when I press the button, nothing happens) from MIG to TIG or the otherway around.

The machine should respond to me when I'm pressing the mode buttons + the led indicator for the on stand should be on whilst it's not.

Also, where is the Torch connection pin supposed to go? There's nothing in the manual about this.

 

[Doc Sprocket]

I don't know what it's like overseas, but here in North America, outlets and plugs are goof-proof. If the plug on your machine physically fits the outlet you're plugging into, you're good. Plugs and outlets are rated for both voltage and current, and there's no screwing it up.

With that in mind, I think you got a defect. Regardless of any settings, I would think that the "Power" lamp would light when plugged in and switched on.

 

[OzFab]

Same here; a 15A plug has a bigger earth pin than a 10A making it impossible to plug a 15A appliance into a 10A outlet. If you don't have this in Belgium, it's possible your outlet is not strong enough to power up the machine.

Other than that & now that we have a bit more info, I tend to agree with TS, sorry man.

Couldn't have happened at a worse time ...

 

[Nodroz]

All sockets are standard 16A here. I asked my dad to confirm and he says he's sure that the sockets where we tried to plug in the machine is 16A, just as the machine needs.

Also, there's a very big difference between 400V and 230V. The 400V are big heavy 5 pin connections, whilst the 230V is a 3 pin connection.

I tried to start up and click all buttons this morning, but it didn't change anything. It's really annoying you can't find any information on the internet.

 

[fowler]

Same here; a 15A plug has a bigger earth pin than a 10A making it impossible to plug a 15A appliance into a 10A outlet

Don't u own a file

That's a bit unfortunate but I'd certainly not try to fix it your self
Looks like u get to watch it collect dust for 2 weeks

 

[Nodroz]

Well, I couldn't resist myself from opening the machine. I unscrewed all the screwd and guess what?!

There was a loose cable inside! I connected the cable in the connector I found inside the machine and started it up. It's working like a charm now!!!

Manufactures these days... lol

Thanks to all who helped me out choosing and giving my opinions about various welding machines. Thank you! I hope I will enjoy this welder for quite a while now!