MIG or TIG?

[Nodroz]

Hello guys,

My stick welder is slowly dieing. My welds are getting really bad and there are some weird noises coming off the case.

I decided to get a new welder anytime soon. I went to the shop to inform myself about these welders. Since such a machine costs over €700, I would like to make a good choice. I don't want to regret it later.

One guy from the shop got a portable TIG welder for me, for €850, 200 amps. He says TIG welding is much more cleaner, but a bit harder to learn. So I might have to follow some lessons.

He also offered me a portable MIG welder, for €1100, 200amps.

I also got an offer from another shop, MIG welder for €1000, 160 BUT automatic darkening helmet, gas and wire is included in the price!

To be honest, I'm aiming for MIG, since that's more industrial. It's faster and it's easier. However, after seeing some nice videos on youtube about TIG, I really don't know which one to choose.

One guy also told me to take a MIG welder if I'm going to weld some thin sheet steel. Eg, for car chassis.

My question is, would you suggest me MIG or TIG?

Ofcourse I am also going to weld my gokart with this. I might also need to weld some car chassis too. You never know.
Regards,
Nodroz

 

[DS13]

You are gonna have a problem trying to weld thicker metal with tig obviously. But then again you will probably end up with a tig and stick combo. I know how to tig and it is challenging to pick up but once you do it opens a whole new set of doors. Miller makes a nice tig and stick combo although I don't know the price but if ya have the money to do it, it may make more sense especially if you said you wanna do car chassis.

 

[OzFab]

TIG: ALthough I've never actually done it, I can say it's a combination of arc & O/A, ie: electric welding with a filler rod. I've seen it weld everything from a coke can to 3/8" steel.

On the flipside, you must run gas, it can be a bit difficult to master & it is slower than MIG, but it is neater

MIG: Quick, easy to use, easy to learn, with the correct machine it can be used with or without gas. A friend of mine (who prefers stick welding) describes MIG as "point & shoot".

IMHO, go for MIG but, look around, you can get a half decent machine for a lot less than you've been quoted. My guess is you got those prices from a welding supplies store...

I have a 130A gas/gasless chinese MIG currently running gasless flux core wire & I can weld up to 1/4" (just) on a single pass on the highest setting & 1mm on the lowest.

Just a quick look at ebay UK & found this, it looks like a great deal. This or something similar is what I'd be looking at...

Here's another, slightly bigger machine if that's what you want

 

[Amped]

For what you will be doing mig is your best bet . Tig is very versatile . With the right setup you can weld anything ( gauge and metal type ). But it can be hard to master. If you melt the tungston rod you have to stop and resharpen and thats a real pain. Plus you have to use both hands and depending on the setup a foot. It is like playing the drums you have coordinate all of you limbs to be good. The mig is the easiest type of welding to learn. There isn't anything on a kart build you can't mig.

 

[Mango Matto]

I work in a fabrication shop and I would recommend a mig. It is a very versatile welding process, with a modest learning curve. I urge you not to weld on a car chassis if you have never welded before. Welding is a skill that comes from a lot of practice. Have fun and be safe...

 

[Bluethunder3320]

i think a mig is your best bet. ive got a hobart 140 amp mig, ($500) currently running flux wire but as soon as i get an "extra" $150 i'll pick up a gas bottle to mig weld.

i think you can do just about anything with mig, and its much easier to learn, tig is expensive and requires lots of skill. i learned how to mig weld in about 5 minutes.

 

[devino246]

i think a mig is your best bet. ive got a hobart 140 amp mig, ($500) currently running flux wire but as soon as i get an "extra" $150 i'll pick up a gas bottle to mig weld.

i think you can do just about anything with mig, and its much easier to learn, tig is expensive and requires lots of skill. i learned how to mig weld in about 5 minutes.

$150 The bottles cost $60 and a fill is $20...

 

[Mango Matto]

$150 The bottles cost $60 and a fill is $20...

If I could buy bottles for 60 bucks I'd buy a hundred of them and sell them for twice as much in my area.

 

[Nodroz]

Thanks for all the replies guys!

I've had a good read and I will choose for a MIG welder. According to your opinions and experiences, I hope it will be a good choice.

Next question;
How many amps do I need? You guys are talking about 130, 120Amps, but the guy in the shop told me I should go for a 200amps. The other guy told me 160amps will be enough. What should I take now?!

The thickest metal I'm planning to weld will be around 6mm thick. Would 130amps be enough for that?

Also, I asked the shopkeeper why they cost so much when I can easily find the same machine with the same amps for less than half the price. He told me that you can buy those cheap welders, but the main difference is the amount of amps they can keep giving while you're welding.
Basically he meant that, sometimes you've got quite a long weld, which will take a bit of time. Those cheaper welders will automatically shut down because they're over-heating.
I was wondering if any of you guys have experience with that? Maybe it's just a trick to sell me this expensive welder?

@Fabroman, yes I went to 2 professional welding shops. Those welders look good in my opinion, but doesn't the UK have different electricity sockets? Not sure though...
Oh, btw. The shipping costs are £100 for the 210A welder... I'm going to have a look at the Belgium eBay in a moment.

 

[jman231994]

What your describing there Nodroz is known as duty cycle. Its written in a percentage. The percentage being out of a ten minute time period. My arc welder for instance is rated at 60% at 170A. So for out of every ten minutes at full power I can only weld for 6. At the Amp level I weld at in general its 100%.

You want to aim for the highest percentage at the current you use most so that you never have to wait for it to cool down. Its certainly no trick, on an arc welder its not much of an issue because in between welds you generally chip off and clean the last weld, letting it cool down. With a MIG though you might hit the duty cycle limit....Aim for the best you can afford at the amp level you think you will weld at most

 

[Nodroz]

Yes that is exactly what I am talking about, it was in percentage with an amount of amps next to it.

How many amps do you think I need to weld 3mm steel? I will wait a little bit inbetween welds with thicker steel.

Is there any other difference with a cheap model and expensive one?

I also heard the wire for those cheaper machines are much more expensive...

 

[ML-TOYS]

If I could buy bottles for 60 bucks I'd buy a hundred of them and sell them for twice as much in my area.

Same here, just to fill my short bottle is 35 bucks

 

[OzFab]

$150 The bottles cost $60 and a fill is $20...

If I could buy bottles for 60 bucks I'd buy a hundred of them and sell them for twice as much in my area.

Oh, you guys are lucky; $200 to hire a half bottle & $75 to fill it here...

Next question;
How many amps do I need? You guys are talking about 130, 120Amps, but the guy in the shop told me I should go for a 200amps. The other guy told me 160amps will be enough. What should I take now?!

The thickest metal I'm planning to weld will be around 6mm thick. Would 130amps be enough for that?

In short bursts, yes, after you grind down the edges & do multiple runs on both sides of the join. If you're not sure, look for a 150/160A

@Fabroman, yes I went to 2 professional welding shops. Those welders look good in my opinion, but doesn't the UK have different electricity sockets? Not sure though...
Oh, btw. The shipping costs are £100 for the 210A welder... I'm going to have a look at the Belgium eBay in a moment.

Yes, the plug probably is different but, I can't read Belgian so it was pointless for me to look on Belgian ebay. Those were just to give you an idea of what you can get...

 

[Amped]

The EL CHEAPO will wear out faster if use it alot. My first mig was a cheapo version of a miller 252 and it lasted just shy of 2 years using it 5 days a week. My dad still uses the miller he got in the 90's. He builds motorcycle and utility trailers every weekend. Its like everything else .Price reflects quality usually .Miller, Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Arc, and Hobart are my top 5 brands. If you can aford a 220v machine get it even if you don't need to weld heavy stuff all the time you'll have the amps if needed . My dad makes an extra 10-15k a year welding stuff for local farmers. What brands are you looking at ?

 

[Nodroz]

The EL CHEAPO will wear out faster if use it alot. My first mig was a cheapo version of a miller 252 and it lasted just shy of 2 years using it 5 days a week. My dad still uses the miller he got in the 90's. He builds motorcycle and utility trailers every weekend. Its like everything else .Price reflects quality usually .Miller, Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Arc, and Hobart are my top 5 brands. If you can aford a 220v machine get it even if you don't need to weld heavy stuff all the time you'll have the amps if needed . My dad makes an extra 10-15k a year welding stuff for local farmers. What brands are you looking at ?

Here in Belgium we only have 230 - 240V (it varies a little bit) and 380 - 400V. In my house, I get 400V, so it wouldn't be a problem if I bought a heavier machine. Anyhow, I don't think I'll need to weld that much to go for the 400V ones + they're even more expensive.

I looked at WECO and CONTIMAC.

@Fabroman, in Belgium we speak Dutch, not Belgian. Just saying!

 

[Amped]

Here in Belgium we only have 230 - 240V (it varies a little bit) and 380 - 400V. In my house, I get 400V, so it wouldn't be a problem if I bought a heavier machine. Anyhow, I don't think I'll need to weld that much to go for the 400V ones + they're even more expensive.

I looked at WECO and CONTIMAC.

@Fabroman, in Belgium we speak Dutch, not Belgian. Just saying!

I believe a contimac is made Belgium and weco is made in Italy. I never used either brand but Belgium and Italy both make good products. The Contimac may be the best choice for you since it is in Belgium which should make it easier to get service and possibly reduce cost.
After a little google magic I've learned a little about Contimac. They make good stuff. They have three classes of equipment (baseline, professional,industrial) and that reflects the price. You only need a baseline model. Contimac seems like a good choice.
Get like 160A machine.

 

[Nodroz]

I believe a contimac is made Belgium and weco is made in Italy. I never used either brand but Belgium and Italy both make good products. The Contimac may be the best choice for you since it is in Belgium which should make it easier to get service and possibly reduce cost.
After a little google magic I've learned a little about Contimac. They make good stuff. They have three classes of equipment (baseline, professional,industrial) and that reflects the price. You only need a baseline model. Contimac seems like a good choice.
Get like 160A machine.

A 160A basicline machine from Contimac costs like €882.
(MIG/MAG 171 BASICLINE)

http://www.contimac.be/nl/product/4122321967358/mig-mag/mig-mag/mig-mag-171-basicline
If you're lucky, you get an English website...

What do you think guys?

 

[Amped]

Its in Dutch but I can still read the technical specs.It has good duty cycles 100% @85A 25%@160A range 30-160A . € 882 is $1,144. From what I've read Contimac is on par with name brand American welders. If so it will be a joy to weld with and should last long time if well maintained . I had to sell my ESAB earlier this year after my wreck and I miss it dearly .

 

[OzFab]

The EL CHEAPO will wear out faster if use it alot. My first mig was a cheapo version of a miller 252 and it lasted just shy of 2 years using it 5 days a week. My dad still uses the miller he got in the 90's. He builds motorcycle and utility trailers every weekend. Its like everything else .Price reflects quality usually .Miller, Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Arc, and Hobart are my top 5 brands. If you can aford a 220v machine get it even if you don't need to weld heavy stuff all the time you'll have the amps if needed . My dad makes an extra 10-15k a year welding stuff for local farmers. What brands are you looking at ?

That's very true, I agree entirely but, Alex, do you plan on using it every day for the next 15 years? I was only trying to save you some money by suggesting a cheaper machine.

I only paid around $300 including shipping for my 130A chinese welder about 3 years ago. The only problem I've had with it was the gears in the feed motor stripped coz my mate put too much pressure on it & you've seen the things I've done with it.

At the end of the day, it's your choice which depends on what you want it to do & how much you're willing to spend on it. We can only offer our opinions...

Here in Belgium we only have 230 - 240V (it varies a little bit) and 380 - 400V. In my house, I get 400V, so it wouldn't be a problem if I bought a heavier machine. Anyhow, I don't think I'll need to weld that much to go for the 400V ones + they're even more expensive.

I looked at WECO and CONTIMAC.

Ah, lucky you. 240v does a lot more work than US 110v

@Fabroman, in Belgium we speak Dutch, not Belgian. Just saying!

Well, you know what I meant but, now I know

 

[Jonester 123]

Hey man, i fab and weld alot of stuff for a living. Mig with the gas setup is the fastest and easiest to learn, get yourself a good lincoln, miller or hobart 200 amp welder. Well worth the money and will more than likely be all you need for any welding jobs. Tig is great also but more expensive and alot more learning to do to get good with it. i use my 205 amp gas mig welder all the time and i weld everything i need to with it. Good luck