Measuring deck height

[BrownStainRacing]

How would you check that?

It’s kinda hard to see. I tried marking out the edge with a sharpie with no luck

On a work bench, flip the engine upside down, it's hard to see. But if you got space between the stud and slot at max lift, you're good.

I use a crooked pick and feel for it.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Those look like some nice rockers without breaking the bank like some of the others.

I calculated that 1.333 ratio would get me right on coil bind. I can’t find any other good options besides a stock style stamped rocker arm on 1.3:1 ratio. But I’m afraid that’s getting real close to max coil bind.

Honda GX200/Clone/Predator 1.3:1 Ratio Rocker Arm (NON-HEMI ONLY!)

OMB Warehouse - Go Kart Parts and Mini Bike Parts. OEM and Aftermarket supplier of Outdoor Power Equipment Parts, Arborist and Landscape Supplies.

www.ombwarehouse.com

26# springs will break those 1.3:1 stamped steel rockers, don't ask me how I know,
Those will definitely get you into coil bind.

They work great for stock lift cams with 22# springs. But you got .075"+ more lift.

When we tested that cam, we were using a pred 212 non-hemi head, LD rockers, 26# springs. Those valves use the automotive style locks/keepers, and retainers.

I bet those pred valves were longer and that why we didn't see any problems, even up to a .315" lift cam.

 

[atlantazombie]

Alright I went ahead and jus switched over to champion rockers, much less to worry about.

They make quite an angle compared to the old ones. Had to go back to the stock length pushrods, thicker lash caps

I ground down the base a little bit, and got the rockers to hit the lash caps straight in the middle

Hopefully should be able to get the engine broken in by tonight

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Alright I went ahead and jus switched over to champion rockers, much less to worry about.

They make quite an angle compared to the old ones. Had to go back to the stock length pushrods, thicker lash caps

I ground down the base a little bit, and got the rockers to hit the lash caps straight in the middle

Hopefully should be able to get the engine broken in by tonight

Those are the new style.

I havnt tried those.

 

[atlantazombie]

Break in complete! She started right up!

Checked re checked rechecked valve lash.

I did notice while breaking in and doing that, there was copper specs from my headgasket on valve cover which I spray on, hopefully that gets washed out with beak in. And doesn’t clog the oil artery In the con rod I have

IMG_4925.MOV

drive.google.com

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Break in complete! She started right up!

Checked re checked rechecked valve lash.

I did notice while breaking in and doing that, there was copper specs from my headgasket on valve cover which I spray on, hopefully that gets washed out with beak in. And doesn’t clog the oil artery In the con rod I have

IMG_4925.MOV

drive.google.com

I change oil every hr for 1st 3 or 4 hrs, looking for metal wear.

Oil is cheaper then a rebuild.

There must be a sell on LONG TUBE HEADERS,

I guess there's a long lake bed race somewheres????

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Break in complete! She started right up!

Checked re checked rechecked valve lash.

I did notice while breaking in and doing that, there was copper specs from my headgasket on valve cover which I spray on, hopefully that gets washed out with beak in. And doesn’t clog the oil artery In the con rod I have

IMG_4925.MOV

drive.google.com

J/k about your header, it's the 3rd 1 I've seen this week.

Put a brace on it and brace it to the engine, NOT THE FRAME or it will break off at the flange, then I can tell you, your header is too short,

 

[atlantazombie]

I change oil every hr for 1st 3 or 4 hrs, looking for metal wear.

Oil is cheaper then a rebuild.

There must be a sell on LONG TUBE HEADERS,

I guess there's a long lake bed race somewheres????

I got it couple weeks ago, on go power sports. Cheapest one I found, and on the FRONT page. That must be why

I was wondering if exhaust scavenging also applies for these motors, maybe I could try and do some research, and cut it to length. not like I have a dyno lying around

 

[BrownStainRacing]

I got it couple weeks ago, on go power sports. Cheapest one I found, and on the FRONT page. That must be why

I was wondering if exhaust scavenging also applies for these motors, maybe I could try and do some research, and cut it to length. not like I have a dyno lying around

I found that .880"-.890" id pipes, 6"-8" long with a muffler, works good around here.

But we got slow tight turns, then quick short straights and hills here.

I havnt really done any testing, usally whatever fits the frame,

My buddy runs big block methanol engines for drag racing and he says short pipes are no good for long WOT runs like that.
Idk, I don't have a drag queen, might need some special panties for that,

 

[atlantazombie]

Took her round for a spin and she still got that crazy high and mid range, low range still missing a little Like last time.

max rpm 5500, I didn’t try anything crazy jus yet, plus I ram out of spark plugs to read so I got to wait on new ones coming in to really dial it in.

while changing out the carb I noticed fuel in the port that puddled up. Might have been me digging around in the port and messing things up, but I did notice that a plastic shim part was not aligned to the port so I matched it.

I’ll take off the carb in a bit and see if that fixed it

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Took her round for a spin and she still got that crazy high and mid range, low range still missing a little Like last time.

max rpm 5500, I didn’t try anything crazy jus yet, plus I ram out of spark plugs to read so I got to wait on new ones coming in to really dial it in.

while changing out the carb I noticed fuel in the port that puddled up. Might have been me digging around in the port and messing things up, but I did notice that a plastic shim part was not aligned to the port so I matched it.

I’ll take off the carb in a bit and see if that fixed it

I wonder whats up with the low end pull???

That thing should put your head against the back of the roll cage, from a dead stop.

Next time, turn the low speed mix screw out 1/2 turn out at a time, test and see how the carb accepts it.

Get temp in the engine, tuning cold does nothing.

About 3 hard dead stop yanks, then add another 1/2 turn out.

That carb should respond better or worse, there's gonna be a sweet spot, if not, you probably need to pop the low speed jet out and clean the low side circuit.

Take it completely apart and remove all the rubber and plastic parts, blast every hole real good with cleaner and compressed air

You could also try the stock carb with the stock low speed jet, and also the .020" outta the arc carb, if it fits.

ARC is big into racing and I'm sure they have that .625" carb set up for a racing class.

Kart racers don't care about the low side pull.
They run 4k- 4500 rpm under yellow, they passed that low rpm pull at that rpm.

The low speed jet and e-tube is where you gonna see that yank up outta the hole.

I'll see if I got any 140 e-tubes, and get a pic for you. They make a good stock carb hit really hard down low.

Some cheap stock carbs WONT accept the 140 e-tube or any low speed jet bigger then a .018", I tried, some of them jus really suk, .

I know you got enough gear,

How much rpm engagement you got???

What hole do you have the red spring in the driven ????

That stock goved 196 my grandson help me put together would turn these 19" tires over with 3000 rpm stall springs, and you got 2x the torq and smaller tires.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

@atlantazombie

Here's some e-tubes.
The 1 with the screw driver is the 140, you can see the big hole on the bottom, and small holes in the tube.

The others are from stock carbs, see how they differ???

Idk how or what makes em act different, but they all will affect that low rpm pull, if testing in the same engine.


The .675" carbs I have, have a totally different e-tube, then any I've seen. Again, don't know how or why, but it works with this carb.

They also have a .026" low speed jet.

I've never had to use a low speed jet that big for ANY stock carb.

But it works for this carb.

 

[atlantazombie]

I have the .02” low speed jet as far as I remember, which is probably not enough. I was just turning the air-fuel out almost ALL the way before the engine gave out way back when. And it didn’t smoke or nothing.

And the plug was lean on idle.

.625" Carburetor for Honda Clone Engines

OMB Warehouse - Go Kart Parts and Mini Bike Parts. OEM and Aftermarket supplier of Outdoor Power Equipment Parts, Arborist and Landscape Supplies.

www.ombwarehouse.com

This is my current carb, I’ll get photos of the e tube and type, I think it had 3 holes and was 140, but I’m at college rn

Very strange: I used the stock carb for break in, and a spark plug with no carbon around the threads, and after breaking it had carbon around the edges… so stock carb has more fuel on low than my arc carb??

 

[atlantazombie]

Very strange: I used the stock carb for break in, and a spark plug with no carbon around the threads, and after breaking it had carbon around the edges… so stock carb has more fuel on low than my arc carb??

My current carb never gets carbon on the threads of my spark plugs

 

[BrownStainRacing]

I have the .02” low speed jet as far as I remember, which is probably not enough. I was just turning the air-fuel out almost ALL the way before the engine gave out way back when. And it didn’t smoke or nothing.

And the plug was lean on idle.

.625" Carburetor for Honda Clone Engines

OMB Warehouse - Go Kart Parts and Mini Bike Parts. OEM and Aftermarket supplier of Outdoor Power Equipment Parts, Arborist and Landscape Supplies.

www.ombwarehouse.com

This is my current carb, I’ll get photos of the e tube and type, I think it had 3 holes and was 140, but I’m at college rn

Very strange: I used the stock carb for break in, and a spark plug with no carbon around the threads, and after breaking it had carbon around the edges… so stock carb has more fuel on low than my arc carb??

If you backing it out that far, the low speed jet is too small.

If the low speed jet was too big, you could only back it out 1/2- 2 turns and it would puff smoke at idle.

I can usally tell if the low speed is close, if I can turn the screw 2-3 turns out. Any more or less means it's not close.

As far as stock vs bored, it depends on the carb itself.

Some stock carbs will flat out run circles around other stock carbs with the same jets and e-tube.

Some only run good with stock engines, while others can be jetted and tuned to turn 7k rpm.

When I'm tuning the low side, I need to get the engine up on temp, then get wheels off the ground, and keep turning the screw out 1/4 turn at a time, til I see it start to puff smoke, you gotta keep upping the idle speed 2k min, as you are cranking the screw out, crack the throttle after each adjustment to keep it cleared.

After I see it puffing, I'll turn it back in 1/4- 1/2 turn, and set idle to 2k.
Like I said, it usally ends up 2-3 full turns out.

This way always give me that nasty idle to WOT snap, with ZERO hesitation, if the main jet and e-tube is close.

The idle quality isn't the best, but I dont ride anything at idle,
That's jus freaking boring .

 

[atlantazombie]

I’ve had problems with my valve lash when taking it out for tuning, and I also notice a ticking sound after the engine warms up a bit. Whenever I set the lash to .003” both sides after it warms up exhaust side goes to 0 and intake to .007” . Definitely not good for my cam if it’s sitting tightly on 0. And it has done this twice now.


here’s the video with the ticking: https://drive.google.com/file/d/10FEbaJvugeo8X1JZW4bkgsq5jAbTmqbf/view?usp=drivesdk

am I being paranoid?? I feel like I have ptsd after the valve dropping incident

At least my problem with the fuel pooling was fixed with my gasket modifications

Currently on .035” main, .02” pilot.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

I’ve had problems with my valve lash when taking it out for tuning, and I also notice a ticking sound after the engine warms up a bit. Whenever I set the lash to .003” both sides after it warms up exhaust side goes to 0 and intake to .007” . Definitely not good for my cam if it’s sitting tightly on 0. And it has done this twice now.


here’s the video with the ticking: https://drive.google.com/file/d/10FEbaJvugeo8X1JZW4bkgsq5jAbTmqbf/view?usp=drivesdk

am I being paranoid?? I feel like I have ptsd after the valve dropping incident

At least my problem with the fuel pooling was fixed with my gasket modifications

Currently on .035” main, .02” pilot.

If you set em at .003" cold, the valve lash widens to .005"- .006" when hot.

I've never seen them tighten up after hot, on these engines.

Make sure you are checking them at the same spot.

Alway remove the sparkplug, when checking or setting valve lash. Makes it easier to find the same spot.

After the compression release on the exhaust, then turn crank til keyway is lined up with the cylinder. That's where you wanna check or set valve lash.

The 30 series driver has that black thick thrust washer. That cut out is the same as the keyway on crank shaft.

I didn't hear valve train ticking, I hear more driver noise.

When in doubt, take the driver off. It can be noisy, and make the mind wonder.

I don't like the intake loosing lash like that.

That's a sign of wiping out a lobe.

It's very rare to wipe out the intake lobe, 95% of the time it's the exhaust lobe that goes.

If you got magnetic drain plugs, I'm sure you do, check those.

If a lobe is going, you will see shining bits of metal.

You can check it at the retainter with a dial indicator, or dial calipers, jus make sure you are checking it at the same spot everytime.

 

[atlantazombie]

If you set em at .003" cold, the valve lash widens to .005"- .006" when hot.

I've never seen them tighten up after hot, on these engines.

Make sure you are checking them at the same spot.

Alway remove the sparkplug, when checking or setting valve lash. Makes it easier to find the same spot.

After the compression release on the exhaust, then turn crank til keyway is lined up with the cylinder. That's where you wanna check or set valve lash.

The 30 series driver has that black thick thrust washer. That cut out is the same as the keyway on crank shaft.

I didn't hear valve train ticking, I hear more driver noise.

When in doubt, take the driver off. It can be noisy, and make the mind wonder.

I don't like the intake loosing lash like that.

That's a sign of wiping out a lobe.

It's very rare to wipe out the intake lobe, 95% of the time it's the exhaust lobe that goes.

If you got magnetic drain plugs, I'm sure you do, check those.

If a lobe is going, you will see shining bits of metal.

You can check it at the retainter with a dial indicator, or dial calipers, jus make sure you are checking it at the same spot everytime.

I have a hunch that since I sanded down the bottom of the rocker support, now it’s not completely flat. So when it expands it tilts to one side. But hope it’s not the lobe going.

 

[Denny]

I doubt it is a lobe, if it was the lash would get bigger not smaller.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

I doubt it is a lobe, if it was the lash would get bigger not smaller.

Sounds like he's got exhaust getting tighter and intake getting looser.

I'll check em 4 or 5 times, until I'm happy.

I have seen automotive valves sink the seat deeper in the head and cause tighter valve lash.
Usally from bad machine work, or installer jus didn't care.

Also, a valve head start to mushroom and that'll cause tight lash. That's too much spring pressure with not strong enough valve.

It's hard for me to believe 26# springs would bend a stock valve head like that. But I'm sure it's possible.

I use 26# springs with all stock valve train on most of my under 6k rpm builds and don't see any problems.

Stainless steel valves are much stronger, but I don't find them necessary, until pushing more rpm.

It's a strange situation he's got going on.