"Lo-T"..."Noassatal" buttgrade, help...Fabrication idea's for rearend upgrade.

[Half-breeder]

"Lo-T"..."Noassatal" buttgrade, help...Fabrication idea's for rearend upgrade.

Im 'thinkin' bout cutting the axle/casing/some structural frame work and the "fenders"(get rid of the 'sheet' metal, I got car bumper corners waiting to be conformed into fenders)... and incorporating that rearend assembly onto "Lo-T". It's wider and more 'hearty' than the rear-end on her now(always 'thought' her 'rear' was kinda wimpy looking...suffers from 'Noassatal'). Doing so will widen her stance, and give the frame a 'slight' rake(rearend higher than frontend) which slighly moves the center of gravity forward... also the rear axle point will be moved back behind the motor, which will 'also' move center of gravity forward further.

My idea is to 'use' the jackshaft that is incorporated, already, to the new rearend frame, which will move the motor to the middle of the kart, which is the idea I was 'thinking'. That way I dont have to 'fiddle' w/ the axle sprocket placement off the hub, all I need to do is figure the gearing for the JShaft. Plus the 'top' of the JShaft mount would be an awsome place to 'mount' other things like an alternator or if its high enough the fuel tank?!

Visually after all welds are smoothed and everything is color coordinated again "Lo-T" 'should' be an 'eye-catcher'/'hair-blower' MORE so than now... w/ the 60T I have now im doin 33-35mph on 10" tires...w/ the different rear n wheels should be doin 43-45mph n after i get my 72T drive (or maybe go down to a 10T drive off the JShaft?) I 'should' be doin back to what Im doin now 33-35mph(but wider... and 'cooler' looking). Im not out to brake any records or anything... top speed Im lookin to reach is 40mph(35mph is fine) but appearance and functionality are my main concerns when it comes to "Lo-T".. On the JShaft, Im not sure which gears Ill be using, any idea/recommended combinations, appreciated.

I havent done any measurements or anything other than came up w/ the idea sofar. Ill give more info tomorrow.

 

[Doc Sprocket]

I see some styling cues that make me think it's a Carter SuperWheels or something close. I have an older, simpler Superwheels chassis with the sleeved rear axle. I think that if/when I actually make something of it, I am going to hack out the sleeve in favour of a more traditional open 1" shaft. Yes, it's more works and requires some cash to be put into components, but it opens op the door to very common generic driveline and brake components rather than specific hubs and parts to fit the existing architecture.

It'd be good to source the matching CVT driver.

 

[Half-breeder]

Well... I did alil homework on the matter of JShafts and TC's and came to the conclusion that for "my purposes" JShaft run by chain is the way to go. Im not by NO means sayin a TC wont let me spin out or drift or anything negative about em... but... I plan on having this as a 'cruiser' kart... so that means in my defining it is, slow speeds on a norm(5-15mph) and the occasional flooring it to do doughnuts and what not(15-40mph) usually on pavement and 'to me' the TC wont be 'as' responsive as a chain, main reason I see is belts slip. TRUE a belt is alot cheaper than a clutch to replace but Im one of those guys that, when I cant find a "solid" answer to things, or when an answer is 'dependant' upon the person... I tend to trial n error my way through things(who knows... a TC 'may' be the thing Im wanting...but, from what Ive read/seen about TC's is they "buildup" the speed instead of 'initializing' it, if that makes sense).

I know it's all in the 'gearing' and im 'hoping' to guesstimate wisely on this project seeing as that theres hundreds of ways to use/run a JShaft... at the moment...from the 'items' I have already 'on' Lo-T...I have potential to upgrade even after I do all the fusing of rearends...incased axle can be bypassed/cutout/use as support/motor plate mount...bandbrakes can be replaced w/ disk, after open axle installed(would still need to 'reenforce' frame for open axle, cause w/ an open axle Id move the rear axle point back).

Took acouple pics today comparing and envisioning 'method' of fusion. The outside framework on Lo-T rearend, seems to lineup close enough to overlap, w/ the 2 lower, frame bars on the new rear close enough to band together and weld(new, rear frame(green) 'ontop of', original, 'main'(black) framework).
The upper, outside bars that support the outside of the fenders(green), 'can' be cut/bent-in 2.5"/welded to reach the apex of the bends of the bars that stick out the side of Lo-T's frame.
Lo-T's center bar that runs her length, up the middle, isnt "exactly" centered, so its 'possible' that a length of center bar, from the new frame(green), can be cut/bent/formed, to lineup parallel w/ her's and banded(after being welded, angle-iron placed over both and welded to both) to reach under the seat(seat can conceal the cutoff...like it does for the cutoffs of the back support of seat).
That would be 3 'strong' lower fusion points, and 2 upper 'decent' fusion points...not counting any 'lateral' welds made at 'other' points that intersect.

5 "main" weld points of support are highlighted in red on the 3rd pic(excuse the 15 min photoshoping... messed up and mirror flipped the green frame instead of 'turning it round)... u gotta envision the motor in the center and no ammocase.

 

[Half-breeder]

Did some measurements today, n 'finding' my ideas growing as I go... The 2 upper welds I 'plan' are gonna need to be bent in 2 1/2"('if' I still keep the fenders...)

The width of the new rear is overall wider, however the wheel base is narrower(which is np, cause the wide wheels compensate, and infact will protrude like Im wanting)

I placed the wheel in the approx. location itll set... for visuality reasons(wasnt sure if they'd stick out TOO far...but imo they work!).

In the last attachment is a comparative view of the 2 karts. On the green kart you can see the drive sprocket(yes its a 60T). What I am wondering is if I will be able to 'use' that sprocket...its match is a 12T on the end of the JShaft, w/ a MUCH larger chain turning them.
I was trying to think of what ??T to go on the other end of the JShaft(I have a 12T on clutch was thinking getting a ??T to match the clutch's chain(#35) and my 'issue' is(as seen from the HUGE 60T pictured) the different sized chain...will the 2 different size chains/sprockets cause any issues or 'should' I make everything match?

So this is what I faced w/...
(clutch)12T->(#35)chain->??T->Jshaft->(larger)12T->(#??)chain->(larger)60T->16"wheel=35-40mph.


QUESTIONS from this update:
1- will the 2 different sized chains/sprockets cause an issue?
2- what size sprocket on JShaft end to attain 35-40MPH?

 

[jonboy]

Its not a super wheels but definitely a carter. Look at my album on my build. It is really similar. My JS is a 12t and axle has a 48t and it does 37mph

 

[Half-breeder]

Its not a super wheels but definitely a carter. Look at my album on my build. It is really similar. My JS is a 12t and axle has a 48t and it does 37mph

.... and misses!

 

[jonboy]

?

 

[Doc Sprocket]

Clutch-12T
J/S in -14T
J/S out 12T
Axle 60T=

29.38MPH@3600RPM with 16"tires. Overall reduction= 5.83:1

That's a might high, and you're risking the clutch. Go bigger on the J/S in sprocket (the 14T and you'll drop speed but bring the ratio to something a bit safer.

As for the other question- If I understand it correctly- There is NO harm in using one particular chain/sprocket type from clutch to J/S, while using a different type from J/S to axle.

 

[Half-breeder]

Thx Doc.... "that" is the kinda answer I was searching. I figured w/ ALL the members that are on this forum, 'someone' would know a 'good' possible gear to put on the JShaft and know whether or not if 2 different size chains would cause an issue... tyty.

Did a mockup of what I plan on cutting/bending tomorrow, on the Carter. I decided the fender framework, fusing to the outward, protruding, bent bars on Lo-T, was just 'too' much...everything, so I slightly modified my plan of fusing, from yesterday(after staring at both rearends for lil over 4 hrs). There are still 5 main secure weld points and 3-4 bends to fuse them together...but they are all on/to the main frame of Lo-T.

I painted what I was 'keeping' in 'black'(all green will be cut off). The areas in 'yellow' are the bend area segments and the 'red' is the weld point areas...

 

[Half-breeder]

Well... the daughter was sick yesterday... so I had to 'baby' her, then fell sleep. Needless to say I didnt get time to do squat to kart or anything... today i got a late start took off all 'good' parts off the 'big' cart, cleaned em up n painted em(look like new...ish) rims, sprocket, JShaft, hub attachments(had to come in to work unexpectedly, so I sorta forgot to take b4 pics...but I 'did' get acouple shots of the cut off rear end and the parts cleaned.

Still gotta clean it up(grind off welds/pieces of cut off sections(the green areas)).

 

[DaiSan76]

Don't you think your Go-Kart lift is a little on the wimpy side?

 

[Half-breeder]

Don't you think your Go-Kart lift is a little on the wimpy side?

Im 'guessing' that's a joke? haha.

 

[Half-breeder]

Well... the end is insight...just welding n paint left...

Sorry bout the shakey pic.

 

[Half-breeder]

Placement day...

I had a brief hr to 'fiddle' today. Went out n evaluated everything again... just to make sure no visual changes were NEEDED... I got more pics... also makin a vid of this(wont release till end)...

 

[firemanjim]

Nice job buddy! I was kinda lost at first, but now I see what you're doing.... I like the way the motor sits low n centered and the big n skinnies (tires)...... Pretty slick . You keeping it black? Is it gloss or flat? I'm thinkin it would look good flat backed and only a little color on the wheels or something. The silver on the seat will "pop" a little more too. O, n love the horn..... lol

 

[Half-breeder]

It's black... thats all i can say... like 3-4 different cans of black layin round i just sprayed till it was black...lol. Pretty sure they were all gloss cept 1 was satin...'after' all is done n tight... thats when ill 'worry' bout the paint job(last step... this paint job was just to keep the rust off...lol).

I 'may' step UP in front tire size, but not much(4.10x5 now...got wheel hub-bearings now... probably will step up to a 5.12x6 or something of that nature, depending on the squirliness ill have w/ what I got now).

Yea my color scheme is (cherry)red on black. After the rear is complete ill be following the red stripe on the seat throughout the length of the kart(surfaces 'facing' UP get the stripe, perpendicular surfaces stay solid black, cept the rims), and the rims will match the stripe to 'widen' the accent color's coverage(probably will paint inside the horn red). The lil siver tabs on the seat highlight the bottom of the chair(yea 'flat' will make em 'pop' but 'flat' tends to scratch easier... proably gonna go w/ satin) as the lil doodads on the motor highlight the throttle movements(motor's getting stripped of all markings...I wonder how hot a muffler gets?! N if the 'high-temp' paint they got at the shop'll withstand it?).

Speaking of mufflers, designing a "Flow-master" design(miniaturized)muffler, gonna wrap it, then design a polished cover shield for looks n sound depth, of exhaust(may iodize the cover n wire in a spark plug to ignite the exhaust(if 'that' works w/ mower motors?!).

 

[Half-breeder]

Nice job buddy! I was kinda lost at first, but now I see what you're doing.... I like the way the motor sits low n centered and the big n skinnies (tires)...... Pretty slick.

LOL you think you were lost...lol. Shoulda seen the guys at the shop when I brought that monster frame in... boss man was like,"...ok youre gonna do what?!... and WHY?!" lol. told him id give him the scrap metal if he'd just let me be...lol... he walked away .

Even after I got done cutting, grinding, heating, bending and placing... he still asked "why?"... but was too busy pulling the scrap metal away to hear my reply....

I still got a few things to cut off of Lo-T's original frame(rear bumper bar, axles, n maybe shorten the seat back rest bar so my seats 'back' can be more viewed... plus the tabs on the back vibrate tap the back rest bar...makes an awesome sound when it idles and noone is sittin on it...lol almost 'Harley-ish'.

I go back to the shop on Weds... hope a bay is open to weld this up! That way I can be 'rolling' come Thursday!

 

[firemanjim]

They make a flat clear coat. Got to summitracing.com and check out the paint section to get an idea for paint. Lots of cool stuff out there..... We have a glow in the dark spray coating for our tools in the fire service. Thinking about spraying my sandrail g-n-d so it glows at night when I drive...... maybe a kart? Its expensive. ....

 

[MetalMech]

Did you ever figure out what kart the original frame was from? I like that frame and have some "ideas" that make me want to hunt one down.

 

[Half-breeder]

Nope... Its a Carter... But still unsure the model.