Interesting ideas...

[Sparkart88]

Hello everyone hope your day is going well

I just wanted to ask you guys a few questions that i have come up with.

I have the idea about putting a 21 hp engine on the FRONT of a go kart and conecting that with a chain to the front axle sprocket. And from that attaching it to the rear axle by chain. 4x4??

Also i need some links for go kart designs good for offroading. Light weight preferably. But anything will do.

thanks

 

[rocketkart]

i did that one time did not work well.

 

[Kelly Wood]

Hello everyone hope your day is going well

I have the idea about putting a 21 hp engine on the FRONT of a go kart and connecting that with a chain to the front axle sprocket. And from that attaching it to the rear axle by chain. 4x4??

thanks

I'll bite...

While so many thoughts have flown through my head reading your idea, I've landed back on what I believe to be the obvious...

How are you going to steer this?

Kelly

 

[Doc Sprocket]

Couple things worth considering. Anyone who's driven 4x4 stuff can attest-

Without any sort of differentiation, it's going to steer like crap, and/or break parts. To alleviate this, you'd basically have to design an AWD system. This would have to comprise central differentiation, to allow slip front to rear. In addition, you'd need a differential in the front axle.

Speaking of the front axle, in order to steer, you'll need knuxkles and U-joints at either end of the axleshaft.

All in all- very complex, with the potential to be quite costly. Is it worth it? You decide.

 

[Sparkart88]

I never thought about steering...hmm

 

[Scout]

I was just thinking about this today. Rear engine would drive a home built transfer case, then driveshafts to a small differential (I haven't figured out what yet) front and rear. A-arm suspension at both ends, they would have custom knuckles built that would use unit bearings from a small FWD car. You might be forced to use car sized wheels then, but with a little more engineering hydraulic brakes on all wheels would be possible, or you could run center mounted brakes on the transfer case. You'd have to build your own driveshafts and axle shafts, but that shouldn't be a problem if you have gotten this far.

Now something like this, if it is going to be on the trail, will need a bigger motor. I'd buy an electric start motor, and maybe an ATV winch for the front.

 

[Sparkart88]

Great ideas scout. But im aiming to low cost ideas although a winch would be nice.

 

[Scout]

If you don't want suspension, you might be able to keep it low cost. You still need knuckles and u-joints or cv joints for the front. That's not going to be low cost.

http://www.westhouse.plus.com/chaindrive1.htm

 

[itsid]

i did that one time did not work well.

Ja, klar...

I'll bite...

While so many thoughts have flown through my head reading your idea, I've landed back on what I believe to be the obvious...

How are you going to steer this?

Kelly

I think I have an idea...

First a vertical shaft engine

PTO connects to a RAGB Diff which is the main part of the front axle and is like a simple soapbox frontbeam the steering axle....
the input shaft of the diff is the connector to the rear axle again a ragb diff...

Doable I think [but a real PITA]

Or you add cardan shafts to the diff, then you could add individual suspended wheels as well as a regular spindle assembly...
-better... but we're getting further and further away from 'lightweight'-

'sid

 

[Scout]

I'm really not seeing what you are doing, Sid. Are you saying that the entire steer axle moves? That would work, but would make for a big kart to get a decent turn radius.

What if you stuck with the horizontal engine, but turn it and the rear axle 90*, then use the driveshaft to power ATV differentials, then use the ATV arms halfshafts, knuckles, and so on. Doing that you could build a front engine 4 wheel drive kart. Not low cost though.

I've considered creating an ATV based 4wd kart. Too many ideas, not enough time and money.

 

[itsid]

I'm really not seeing what you are doing, Sid. Are you saying that the entire steer axle moves? That would work, but would make for a big kart to get a decent turn radius.

For the first part "simple soapbox steering" yes, exactly.
And YES, EXACTLY

What if you stuck with the horizontal engine, but turn it and the rear axle 90*, then use the driveshaft to power ATV differentials, then use the ATV arms halfshafts, knuckles, and so on. Doing that you could build a front engine 4 wheel drive kart. Not low cost though.

With a horizontal shaft engine you'll need a lot more space to fit everything inside the kart,
I don't think you can just turn it sideways and hope for the best
okay, the carb isn't a big deal to reset, but the oil.. that'd be a pain.

Yes what you refere to as "ATV diff" is exactly what I mean by "right angle differential with cardan shafts" they can also be found on trikes, speed quads and other types of vehicles around here, so ATV..hmm.. okay, as long as we know what we're talking about
And I'm sorry my own languague tends to bleed through every once in a while
So when I say cardan shaft, I mean the things we call Kardanwelle.

A drive shaft with knuckles and flanges etc.

'sid

 

[rocketkart]

i remember my brother when we were just kids taking a riding mower and making into a 4x4 mud mower we had used a rear end off of a nother mower and set it up in the front of the ridding mower and just used second belt that run from the engine to the trans in the front. the hole front and was mad to turn left and right wale the trans pully stayed in place and not moving and it worked ok for what we used it for. just had fun in the mud.

 

[Kelly Wood]

Perhaps you should just buy a 4wd atv or a car???

 

[KartFab]

Rear wheel drive with a solid live axle and knobby tires will give you enough traction.

 

[landuse]

Having the engine up front would also put all the weight on the front (unless you compensate somehow at the back), and that won't work too well with 4 x 4'ing

 

[Scout]

Rear wheel drive with a solid live axle and knobby tires will give you enough traction.

I had my kart out on some rutted dirt trails a few months ago. It has a governed 5 hp motor and worn out tires. I was happy with how it did, but I thought it would have done better with a bigger motor and a torque converter. I wouldn't get too hung up on having 4wd.

 

[Scout]

For the first part "simple soapbox steering" yes, exactly.
And YES, EXACTLY


With a horizontal shaft engine you'll need a lot more space to fit everything inside the kart,
I don't think you can just turn it sideways and hope for the best
okay, the carb isn't a big deal to reset, but the oil.. that'd be a pain.

when I say turn it sideways I mean have the crankshaft and driveshaft pointing forward. Run a normal clutch and chain down to the axle, which is connected to the "right angle differential with cardan shafts". that and the rest of the drivetrain is ATV stuff.

Yes what you refer to as "ATV diff" is exactly what I mean by "right angle differential with cardan shafts" they can also be found on trikes, speed quads and other types of vehicles around here, so ATV..hmm.. okay, as long as we know what we're talking about
And I'm sorry my own languague tends to bleed through every once in a while
So when I say cardan shaft, I mean the things we call Kardanwelle.
View attachment 42643
A drive shaft with knuckles and flanges etc.

'sid

I'm used to calling them u-joints. As long as we know what each other is talking about.

And don't worry about your language bleeding through once in awhile, I find it interesting to know other languages/terms.

 

[Scout]

But you gave me an idea… I've got a 17 hp opposed twin with a vertical shaft, I could possibly use the atv diff as a RAGB and drive both rear wheels. :evil:

 

[rocketkart]

you can do somthing like this with the edger where thay twisted the belt to turn the edger blade but instead twist the belt to the axle to turn it

 

[machinist@large]

It's The Holy Grail......

.....And I'm sorry my own languague tends to bleed through every once in a while
So when I say cardan shaft, I mean the things we call Kardanwelle.
View attachment 42643
A drive shaft with knuckles and flanges etc.

'sid

'Sid, in your above photo, the assembly has quick disconnects on the ends of the actual shaft; the outboard hubs are to be mounted separately.

WHAT IS THE SHAFT DIAMETER AND THE SPLINE COUNT? STYLE!!!!!

OMG... The only one's that I personally know of and can get are all high horsepower/ low RPM agricultural stuff..... if you can get smaller, high performance styles/grades out of Europe?!?!?!???

I need more information.......

Pat