Identify these motors !

[Russ2251]

Mistake I made was pipe lacked support and cracked under strain of it's own weight.

 

[Pyrotechnic]

You have a choice between a resistor and a non-resistor plug.
RJ8C resistor or J8C non resistor manufactured by Champion is what is called for in factory specs. I always lean toward the non resistor types as they tend to produce a hotter spark.
The J19LM will work but is on the hot side and I would avoid using it under a load for extended periods.

Thanks once again! I'll use the plug I have to try and get them started, but once they are running I will switch the correct one.

 

[Pyrotechnic]

Well I went out and checked them both for spark....nothing.

The problem on both motors is that the center conductor of the coil wire is no longer touching the metal terminal that attaches to the spark plug. It should be folded over back against the insulation then the terminal crimped over it.

I think what I will try to do is cut off the existing terminal and put on a new one. I have some extra terminals and boots for car wires laying around so I figure it's worth a shot.

UPDATE: I did get a hold of the manual online and it's helping me a lot.

I dug deeper into the ignition and the points were gunked up bad. I sanded them down and tried to get spark again...still nothing. The iron core that the coil slips over is severely rusted though, which is the manual said is bad. This motor was basically left outside to rot and it shows. I chose to mess with it first since it seemed to be in the worst shape of the two, and thus better to learn on.

I'm gonna tear into the older motor tomorrow and see if I can make some progress. It is much cleaner and looks like it was taken care of.

 

[Russ2251]

One point here. I usually look at 'new posts' to see if anybody has added something. I noticed you edited last post which doesn't show up as a new post. Almost missed it.
Anyway...you might try a trick I learned whilst servicing Lawn-Boy engines with bad coils/cdi.
Possible to save them by baking (yes...baking) at 200 degrees fahrenheit for 2 hours in something like a toaster oven.
Baking at 200 will not hurt them...but then again they're bad anyway. Worth a try. Works for me 75% of the time. Let me know what happens if you try this.

 

[Pyrotechnic]

I checked the resistance of the primaries windings and they aren't broken, so thats a plus. I think the issue is the laminated iron core. It's very rusty, and the layers are kinda separating from rust at the leading edges where the magnets fly over. The manual says to replace entire deal if this is the case. I'll try and post some pics tomorrow.

I'll tear into the other motor sometime soon, and hopefully between these two non working ignitions, I can have one that works.

I'm almost to the point where I wanna hook the points up to an old coil off a car and a battery just to see one of these run....

 

[I like karts]

I saw a video of someone who did that to a 5hp flathead about a week ago... Ran really well

 

[Pyrotechnic]

Success! Well somewhat...

I pulled the old motor apart today. Much cleaner than the last motor. There was the usual grease and grime but this one looks like it was at least stored indoors.

I had no spark to begin with, but I looked at the points and they had grease on them. I wiped the grease off, ran a file in between, reset the gap, and I had spark. I put the motor back together and torqued down the flywheel and head bolts. When I give the cord a rip, it looks to have a strong spark.

Tomorrow I will bolt it to some wood, add oil and gas, and see what happens. I'm not expecting any miracles because the carb could be a whole new can of worms, but at least I've made some progress.

 

[Pyrotechnic]

It runs! Sort of...

I bolted it to some wood, filled it with oil, poured in a little gas, and pulled the string a few times. Nothing. Then I looked at the carb and gas was slowly dripping out of the air horn. I knew ahead of time it wasn't gonna be that easy but I figured it was worth a try.

I disconnected the fuel line and let the fuel drain out of the tank. There was a little gas left in the carb, so i gave it a few more pulls.
It went something like...pop..pop..pop..pop....vrrrrroooooommmmmmmmm(for about 10 seconds).....pop..pop...

So we have a runner! It looks like the carb is gonna need some work though. I'm going to tear down the carb from the newer 3HP motor to get familiar with it, then work on the older carb.

When filling with oil, you just fill it up to the fill hole to the point where it's about to spill out right? Never owned a horizontal shaft motor before. It took just a touch more than a half quart to get it full.

 

[Kenny_McCormic]

On any motor like this W/O a dipstick, you fill it to overflowing.

 

[Pyrotechnic]

Great, looks like I got the oil part right.

Anyone know why gas would just pour out of the carb like that? It didn't come out of the bottom diaphragm vent or anywhere else, it just dripped out the air inlet. I'm thinking the needle and seat might be stuck ?

 

[Russ2251]

I'm thinking the needle and seat might be stuck ?

That is probably correct. Is this a diaphragm carb?

 

[Pyrotechnic]

Yes, diaphragm carb.

 

[Russ2251]

Diaphragm carbs a little uncommon on 4 cycles but not unheard of. A carb kit will solve all (most?) leaking problems. Check Carburetion Troubleshooting chart in manual you downloaded.

 

[Kenny_McCormic]

New diaphragm(s) should solve everything.

 

[Pyrotechnic]

I pulled the diaphragm cover and the diaphragm was cracked and seemed very brittle. I got the idea the take the metal center piece of the diaphragm and laminate it in duct tape. Yes, duct tape. I knew it would turn to goo after a few minutes but I figured it might be enough to make it start up and run a little.

Here's the video of the action. If you look at the carb, you can see the silver stuff...thats the ghetto diaphragm. I had to poke it with the paper clip to get it start, but it did work to some extent. It ran for around 2 minutes, I stopped the video early.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeQ7K2J1kPE

Anyway, I think the cost of a carb kit is worth it at this point. Next project is to track down the carb kit and rebuild the carb.

 

[kibble]

Sounds like it runs pretty ok!

 

[athif]

LOL theres a 10 year old snow blower in my class, it doesnt seem to work anymore because some idiot put oil in the fuel tank and clogged the needle with debris.

the engine looks exactly like the one that you have. Im thinking the parts are gonna be hard to get, because i tried to find a new fuel system for mine but couldn't. They told me the motor was just too old.

 

[Pyrotechnic]

Actually, the carb kit for this motor with a diaphragm carb is still available. I see alot of the kits for these motors with float style carbs too. I've found them a few places online. I'm gonna call a few local lawn mower shops around here to see if they have one in stock.

These carbs seem really simple though. The toughest part of the rebuild seems to be removing several freeze plugs (or welch plugs, whatever you want to call them) to get at and clean the jets.

 

[Russ2251]

In my experience, Welch plugs rarely need to be removed.
If you shop on-line http://www.m-and-d.com/ is an excellent parts source. Just type part number into search window.

 

[Pyrotechnic]

So you wouldn't recommend removing the welch plugs ? Just soak in carb dip, wash off, and blow out the passages with compressed air ?

Thanks for the tip on that site. They do have the kit I need, I think I will order it from them. http://www.m-and-d.com/ST-056-094.html