Honda Odyssey FL250 to Yamaha 340 Sled Power Conversion

[bainer1290]

Yeah I saw the buttons on ebay too.

 

[theo]

Do you think that taking 3/16 off that it might weaken the cam? There isn't to much metal there.

 

[bainer1290]

I was looking at it closer today and that will remove a fair chunk of its metal. I was thinking I might fabricate up a spacer like in the diagram below.

This means just the bolt/large washer will hold the cam in place and the snap ring is no longer used, by eliminating the snap ring the cam slides an 1/8 inch away from the clutch and adding a 1/8 spacer gives me a total of 1/4 so I would then be able to run a 1-1/4 belt. The spacer is the same diameter as the shaft the cam slides onto, so all the spacer does is make this shaft 1/8 longer.

I would then add a 1/4 spacer between the clutch halves and everythign should operate the same as it does now...

Your thoughts?

 

[bighead]

Okay I did some tinkerinbg with spacer after I got the cam off. 3/16 does seen to fit the sled belt good. Perhaps a tab more to get perfect.

I notice the original belt rides kind of inside the plates. From what I gathered the belt should ride about 1/8 above the plates. 3/16 does that perfect. A tab under 1/4 rides it flush to the plates.

I am going to go with 3/16. If not good then I will go more.

What are you going to do?

 

[bainer1290]

That sounds about right 3/16, I think I am going to try it with the spacer idea first if it doesn't seem to work then I can always trim the material off the cam.

 

[bighead]

That sounds about right 3/16, I think I am going to try it with the spacer idea first if it doesn't seem to work then I can always trim the material off the cam.

You can try that. But you will change the spring some. A spacer is all you may need though.

You really got me thinking a spacer is all you need. But I am going to machine my cam and use spacer. What the hell.

My yelllow race buggy has the driven wider. But not sure how they did it. It has a power bloc clutch that takes the larger belt. The belt in my yellow ody you can see about an 1/16 inch of the top of the belt.

Here are some pics. I am pretty sure it is set up right. They raced these back in the day. I am shooting for the same belt hight as this. Pic #2 shows it best. You can see about an 1/8 of the top of the belt.

 

[bainer1290]

I like that yellow one, pretty cool how it has the rear suspension...

Yeah I think either way will work for us, I'm using 2 spacers, one between the clutch sides, then another on the end of the shaft which will move the cam away from the clutch, by doing this the spring should stay the same...

Does your yellow Odyssey have a spacer between the clutch halves? is it a metal shim or an o-ring?

 

[bighead]

I have never looked yet. Never even had the belt off yet. It is waiting for full restore. I will take the belt off in the morning and see what I can find out. If there is a specer I will be able to see it.

 

[bighead]

I was looking at it closer today and that will remove a fair chunk of its metal. I was thinking I might fabricate up a spacer like in the diagram below.

This means just the bolt/large washer will hold the cam in place and the snap ring is no longer used, by eliminating the snap ring the cam slides an 1/8 inch away from the clutch and adding a 1/8 spacer gives me a total of 1/4 so I would then be able to run a 1-1/4 belt. The spacer is the same diameter as the shaft the cam slides onto, so all the spacer does is make this shaft 1/8 longer.

I would then add a 1/4 spacer between the clutch halves and everythign should operate the same as it does now...

Your thoughts?

I missed this post.

Sounds like it can work.

I think only a spacer between the faces would work. How much force can 3/16 push on the spring? The spring is not all that loaded really.

I am lost of the spacer out by the bolt. Why not run the cam all the way to the washer? The just use spacer between the plates?

I don't I think we could be over thinking it. I am thinking just a one spacer between the plates would work. From what I can tell 3/16 or 1/4 would be nothing on the spring tension. The spring does wind up and not really compress when operating.

I have decided to machine 3/16 off the cam. And then use a 3/16 brass spacer between the plates.

Your idea is great thinking and briliant if it works. Regardless this will be a good thread for anyone searching how to widen a drivin Ody clutch. Which is weird there is no info on this mod abd thousands of fl250 have been converted to sled power. I have just read about spacers is all.

Keep going one or both of us will get it. If we get the clutches right are ody's will be screaming machines. Top speed is about 50mph no matter what we do. You just get there quicker with more power. Kicking myself for no rear suspenson though. Should be a good trail and beach buggy.






Still wondering if 3/16 would have any affect on the spring at all? I thought the spring had way more tension than it does. I may just try a spacer and see if it works.

 

[bainer1290]

Yes you got me thinking now too, I may try it with just the spacer between the plates, and use a black sharpie to see how far the belt rides on the clutch plates when they engage. Based on what I can see the clutch should be able to open enough as is so maybe we are just over thinking it and we just need a shim between the clutch faces on the driven.

I'm thinking we may need more spring tension for the driven anyways since we have larger engines we may want to delay when the driven engages. I've been reading up on it and from what I have found it looks like the stock FL250 driven can be adjusted to have more or less tension. The manual says to pre-load it with a 180 degrees of spring tension when re-assembling so I am thinking try this and if it engages to early then it is easy to give it more tension.

Here's the manual in case you don't have a copy, its got some good info...
service manual part 8-30 --> http://www.atlanticpaints.com/Manuals/PDF Files/ODYSSEY FL250.pdf

Let me know if your yellow Oddy has a shim and what it is I think this will help us.

 

[bighead]

Checked out my yellow buggy today. Wow, It is set up backwards. Take a close look. The cam is hooked to the shaft side. Also no spacer but who knows whats going on here. To be honest I just noticed it today. Notice how it is backwards. And how the shaft bolts thru the frame? Interesting. I do not understand clutches well enough to know whats going on or how this works. Lokks like they just flip it over and machined a snap ring slot and key to hold the cam.

I did have 3/16 machine off my cam. Also had a 3/16 aluminum spacer made for the plates. Belt fits perfect now. Hope it goes back with no problems. I think a 1/4 would be to low in the pully.

My yellow Ody uses a 1 1/8 belt.

 

[bainer1290]

Yeah I noticed the setup is a bit different in the yellow buggy must have to do with the rear independent suspension setup.

Let me know how the new clutch works once you get around to testing it out.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[fowler]

hey big head do u mind posting some pics of that suspension i would like to see how it works

 

[Bluethunder3320]

are those CV axles? like a car?

 

[Rustydog2010]

No, those are universal joints, you will find them on tractor PTO and older cars. The only thing about universals joints is that they do not have a constant velocity, unlike a CV joint.

Cv joint.

Universal joint.

Jeremy.

 

[B.M.800]

Woah, those are cool animation thingys...

 

[bighead]

I got my cam machined and all put back together. I did machine 3/16 off the cam. Also had a 3/16 aluminum spacer made for between the plates. If it does not work I can move the spacer to the part I had machined off to save the cam. It all looks really good though. Here are some pics on how my belt rides now.

 

[bighead]

hey big head do u mind posting some pics of that suspension i would like to see how it works

All the pics I have are in this thread. I can take some better ones if you like.

The trans you see is original Ody gear reduction unit. Some how they flipped the drivin clutch so you can use the original ody drivin and brakes.

From the guys at Pilot Odyssey dot com.

The rear setup used on your buggy is an IRS special made.
I know PROATV made kits but I do not know any others.
Maybe someone will chime in on manufactures at the time.

You do indeed have a piece of Odyssey Racing history, GREAT FIND!
The engine is a CAMMEX Racing Products, (CRP) 250cc engine.....(unless it had one of the "Open Class" engines, then it could be as large as a 360cc), The cylinder was the same cylinder and head that we made to fit onto the 81-84 ATC250R engine, that cylinder and head were built for the 250 class AND the open class, so the only way to tell which you may have is to pull the head and take some measurements.
We built the cases for the Odyssey to adapt the existing Cammex cylinders to that engine compartment. The engine should run very well, ones just like that, (in fact....could have been that one....lol), won quite a few AATVA Nationals in their day.
There were many guys that ran the engines, but you might look for anything about one of the "Bagus" brothers, (may have been spelled "Bogus"), the two brothers ran very hard, won several major races, and I believe at least one of them, (Mike Bagus.....I think), either won or took 2nd in the National Championship Points a year or two.

I WOULD LOVE to find one of those for playing at Little Sahara, even though they were closed course machines, (before there were "side-by-sides"....lol), they would be a BLAST in the dunes!
When you have to tear it down, take down some numbers and call the shop.....I would be glad to help you keep it fresh and going strong.

Here are some interesting reads on my buggy and motor. In the 80's this would have been the very best when it comes to Ody's

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showth...ine-ID-VINTAGE-CAMMEX-MOTOR-(PICS)&highlight=


http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7943

http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7927

Here is the pics of the parts you would need to make my set up. You can get the Ody gear box on ebay for under $100 with drivin clutch and rotor. Not sure how much these kits are.

I think this would be a cheap way to set up a little Kart. IRS reduction box,clutch and rotor for under $100. Strong enough to handle sleds engines as well. And no need for a jackshaft for the drivin in mounted on the box. With a 250 or 440 top speed is about 50 with stock gearing. Strong bottom end though. The reduction units are bullet proof for the most part. Some folks add some kind of strong motorcycle chain but I have not. Salisbury clutches if I remember right.

The last 3 pics show how the trialing arms connect to the axle. There is also some other kind of adjutable bar down there. When I got this I had no clue what it was. Kind of cool to find out I had a some Odyssey racing history in my hands. I am going to restore it to it's former glory using all correct parts. I got 3 other odys to restore. So I am saving this for last. That way I will know what I am doing when I get to this one.

 

[fowler]

thats a cool setup
ill have to think about useing it

are uni joints stronger than cv joints?

 

[bighead]

thats a cool setup
ill have to think about useing it

are uni joints stronger than cv joints?

I am not sure. I would think cv would be. I guess this is what they did in the 80's. Still trying to figure out how they reversed the clutch like they did.