High rpm Clutch

[r97]

i'm sry but i still don't understand 100 percent of it, maybe you could down-load google sketch-up and post them up in the sketch-up where house like i do(search r97 in the google3d warehouse)

 

[r97]

sry but from what i understand unless you get clutch 1 to disengage when clutch 2 engages you will have problems, you may also have problems with chain skipping over clutch 2. i drew out what you described on paper, i will try to make a sketch up version tomorrow.

 

[hawk1093]

What I described is just very basic, I realize that I will need a chain tensioner of some sort to keep the chain on Clutch2 but I dont think that will be that hard.
please try to get a sketch up, because my computer won't do google sketch.

 

[redsox985]

I have a sketch on Paint but when I try uploading it it says its to big?
how do I make it smaller?

Have MediaFire host it. They allow hosting without a membership. That's what I've used for SketchUp drawings I've made.

 

[fowler]

or screen shot it and copy it into paint then save it and use that pic
my computer will only post pics that way

 

[r97]

thanks redsox, ill get to work!

 

[r_chez_08]

surely clutch 2 would not over ride clutch 1, and just cause slippage between them?
if you could find a way to disengage clutch 1, it sounds like a good idea!

 

[r_chez_08]

This is my interperitation, tell me if it is something alike your idea. i still think the chain may try and work off clutch 1 not two. the only other thing you could do is use belts with a tensioner, and not chain, but then it would be manual, and not automatic

 

[r97]

surely clutch 2 would not over ride clutch 1, and just cause slippage between them?
if you could find a way to disengage clutch 1, it sounds like a good idea!

unfortunatly, yes that is correct, here are my images

blue=engine, gray=clutch1 (1800rpm engagement), gold=clutch2(spun by jack-shaft, 3000rpm engagement), purple=sprocket1(fixed to engine shaft), green=sprocket2 (fixed to jack-shaft), red=axle sprocket(fixed to axle), brown= chain1(goes from sprocket1 to sprocket2), pink=chain2(connects to clutch1, then runs over one side of clutch2, then around axle sprocket). you can see my model in 3D if you search r97 in the google 3D werehouse.

 

[hawk1093]

WOW! that's basically what I had in mind it's so cool to see it in 3d like that! I realize know that clutch 1 would have to dissengage for this to work but please let me know your ideas. would switching the clutches work or no?
Just brainstorming.
Thanks

 

[r97]

if you can find a cheap clutch that disengages at a certain rpm than this could be a brilliant idea, if your interested google sketch-up is free to download, but make sure you watch some of the instructional vids because it takes a bit of getting used to to even draw a sprocket on the middle of an axle.

 

[hawk1093]

Ok cool! do you know where to find a clutch like that? Remember that it is for a 40/41 chain.

Yeah I have wanted Google Sketch for a while, but estimated download time is 6 hrs. Maybe I will try to do it tonight when it won't tie up the phone. :ninja:

 

[modelengineer]

If you have the low speed clutch driven through a one-way bearing, as the second clutch kicks in the first clutch would be spun faster. Since it can't drive the motor through the one way bearing it would effectively disengage.

I think it might actually work better if the second clutch was driven by the axle, that way when it shifted over you could have it lower the engine rpm, like when you shift in a car. What I mean is if they're both on the engine you would have 500 - 2,500rpm in first, then 2,500 - 4,000 in second. If you had it in the axle it would be more like a car with 500 - 2,500 in first and then dropping back to 1,500 - 4,000 in second. You would change the shift points by changing the effective gearing between the axle and the jackshaft with the second clutch, and the jackshaft and the engine.

*EDIT* thought about it a bit more and I don't think having the clutch driven by the axle would work. I think it would get to the stage where the second clutch tries to take over, which would lower the engine rpm, which would slow you down and you'd go back to the first clutch. I think it would just get to the changeover RPM and slip the second clutch constantly.

 

[hawk1093]

2 questions:
1:Where do I get a one way bearing?
2:How do you get Clutch2 to be driven by the axle, would I need another sprocket?
oh yeah if someone could sketch a pic of modelengineer design I would realy appreciate it. I think I know what he means but a pic would help alot.

 

[r97]

If you have the low speed clutch driven through a one-way bearing, as the second clutch kicks in the first clutch would be spun faster. Since it can't drive the motor through the one way bearing it would effectively disengage.

I think it might actually work better if the second clutch was driven by the axle, that way when it shifted over you could have it lower the engine rpm, like when you shift in a car. What I mean is if they're both on the engine you would have 500 - 2,500rpm in first, then 2,500 - 4,000 in second. If you had it in the axle it would be more like a car with 500 - 2,500 in first and then dropping back to 1,500 - 4,000 in second. You would change the shift points by changing the effective gearing between the axle and the jackshaft with the second clutch, and the jackshaft and the engine.

*EDIT* thought about it a bit more and I don't think having the clutch driven by the axle would work. I think it would get to the stage where the second clutch tries to take over, which would lower the engine rpm, which would slow you down and you'd go back to the first clutch. I think it would just get to the changeover RPM and slip the second clutch constantly.

if your gonna go to the trouble of fitting a free-wheel sprocket to an average cent clutch it would prob be worth just doing it the way a normal 2 speed jack shaft is setup, because you wouldn't have to worry about the chain skipping over the teeth on clutch 2, also instead of buying a 2 sprocket clutch you could just put on another sprocket!


EDIT: if you decide to build a 2 or more speed jack shaft let me know as i can help you find some of those hard-to-find parts and maybe, just maybe come up with some good ideas, lol

 

[Kenny_McCormic]

If you run 2 shafts you can use nothing but standard clutches and sprockets besides the one way.

 

[redsox985]

I'll just look at the pretty colors cause I'm not getting this stuff. SketchUp is great, but takes some learning. Once you catch on, it's great.

 

[Bluethunder3320]

@r97's sketchup diagram
WOW
that would take me a half year to complete LOL
i just spent the last 5 days messing around trying to come up with stuff like that.
now you made it look so bad ahahaha!


and ive been using sketchup for a while now.

 

[redsox985]

Does anyone here use cad like programs in their field of work? We should have a "best SketchUp design" contest of some sort.

 

[hawk1093]

if your gonna go to the trouble of fitting a free-wheel sprocket to an average cent clutch it would prob be worth just doing it the way a normal 2 speed jack shaft is setup, because you wouldn't have to worry about the chain skipping over the teeth on clutch 2, also instead of buying a 2 sprocket clutch you could just put on another sprocket!


EDIT: if you decide to build a 2 or more speed jack shaft let me know as i can help you find some of those hard-to-find parts and maybe, just maybe come up with some good ideas, lol

Could you give me a parts list and where I can get it.
I hate to sound like a noob but I have never even heard of some of this stuff. Also could you make a sketch of this on Sketchup I know it prpbably takes a while but I would realy appreciate it.
Thanks!