Help Identify my new Kart

[Binger]

I picked up this Kart the other day and am going to get it running to take to the Hot Rod Dirt Drags. They are offering some kids races and this will be perfect for my daughter. It was suggested on my introduction post that this kart might be a R-1 McCulloch. I looked at the internet for comparison and I don't think it is. Any help in identifying it would be appreciated. Also the swing motor mount on the live axle has me a bit baffled. Does anyone have a good picture of how exactly they are to be set up? how it was doesn't look correct to me.

 

[Texan]

Rupp Dart Kart maybe??? Seen some with the wide steering column support like yours.

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

Nope. they don't have the solid side restraints(Looks kinda similar to an American Express, in fact).
Picture is a Rupp Dart Kart.

 

[itsid]

Yeah.. I didn't mean the R1 I meant the F1..
but you're right.. it's likely not one (neither of the two that is)

Hmm.. that tank stabilizer is odd..
shouldn't be on too many karts that way... I'll dive some in the depths of my kart image pool
and see what I can find there or on the wide open waters of google image search

'sid

 

[Binger]

Thanks for the help. How is that motor mount supposed to work? I pulled it off and straightened it as the bearing mounting surfaces weren't parallel. It was causing the axle to not spin free. Going to test fit it back together tomorrow. It was fastened to the frame with some small ubolts and honestly looked bad. I welded up a big chunk that was cut out of it and some cracks around the engine mount holes. Does the fact it can move on the axle allow for chain tensionoing or does it get fastened to the frame some way? I can't find any instructions or pictures of it should be set up. I am loving this forum. Lots of information out there.

 

[pearl111]

I don't know what kind of kart you have but I really like that frame. Good luck on your build can't wait to see the finished project.

 

[itsid]

Motor mount...is not unlike the Rupp mount..
so I'd say floating

The rupp mounts have a tab that bolts to the crossbar behind the seat;
I don't see something like that tab on yours and I don't see any boltholes on the crossbar..
So my best guess is tank mount of yours..
see the bolt tab under the tank hanging there doing nothing?
The engine will attach to that somehow to locate the motor mount.
And the load is carried by the two additional axle bearings as with the rupp's.

'sid

 

[Binger]

Ok that makes sense now. I will figure out what that extra bracket bolts up to. If it won't work with my engine I can fab up a quick tab like you said was on the rupp. I am a bit relieved that this kart isn't rare or anything special so I won't have any issue welding on it and making it work. Thanks for the information. I will post pics as I get it together. Get it running for the event on June first and then a complete restore later this summer.

 

[itsid]

well just because I cannot identify it from on top of my head,
doesn't mean it's not rare.. maybe the opposite is more likely even
(so rare that I haven't seen it before )

I'd still say do not weld or cut the chassis at all
(other than maybe closing the holes drilled to relocate the pedals but even that I personally would until I knew what it is)

That kart is OLD, and very much so
it's 50 years or older ..
the 4" hands wheels and the 60's racing drum brake
tell me it never was a cheap kart but in fact is a race kart from the sixties.
The Rupp (or rather Lancer) style motor mount and the wide butthoops
also at least are reminiscent of sixties race karts from better known manufacturers..
(it's for a reason I though it's a McCulloch... and not the colour )
could be a Bug I haven't seen for example.

But there have been dozens and dozens of manufacturers back the,
many I can't recall and dozens I never even heard of.

And that doesn't make this kart less collectible quite frankly,
I mean many never heard of Evans karts either and if you find one
it's either is terribly pricey or you'd be rich the very next day

Haven't had time to dig through the internet yet btw.

[EDIT]

Geez I'm an idiot..

it is not only a go kart it is
A "Go Kart"... the real deal,
the brand that caused the name to spread
A GK 808 is too close to be coincidental


See.. seat contour fits, steering hoop is correct,
front bumper matches..
even has hands wheels and the motor mount matches too.
too bad it has a Nassau panel on the pic and even worse the pic is a hair small..
but yeah it's off the GoKart shelf I bet.

for comparision here's a rotten GK800
(seat's slightly different) but the bearing hangers can be spotted (and are identical IMHO) you see the exact same drum brake on the GK800 as yours and the front is certainly of similar bred too

(here's a restored Gk800)

yeah I'm convinced you have a GoKart
(and yes that's a collectible I'm afraid )

'sid

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

Jealous....

 

[Binger]

Thanks for the information. I am honestly a bit torn. Knowing the age and significance of this kart I don't know how I should proceed. I ordered replacement tires. Some pedal return springs and a throttle cable. I was going to weld a tab for the cable on the font. I need to fabricate new brake rods too. I don't like the set up for the throttle that was on it. I think I will have to make the original set up with a rod and a shorter cable work instead of welding a tab on the front of the kart. I will post up some pics tomorrow of the original control rods. Eventually I would like to restore it. Growing up into the antique car restoration hobby and now being involved with traditional hot rods, I understand about original parts and modifying original parts. So that is why I am torn. The kart looks to be repainted and there is an ugly tab welded for on the side for the throttle cable. I dont like the idea if that cable hanging under the kart right there. The gas tank mount is a bit funky looking too. I will look on the internet for some good detail shots of how it was originally put together. I am excited to hear the kart dates to the early 60's. It fits with the pre 1964 theme of the Hot Rod Dirt Drags. Less than a month away! I am under a time crunch and an going to have to put in some work to have it running by June 1st.

 

[Hellion]

I think you should either proceed on the premise of 'do no harm' (preservation) or as close to a restoration (a return to former or original condition) as possible.

Think of it as an investment.

 

[Karttekk]

I agree with Hellion. I try to do any restoration or repair as close to factory as possible. I realize this isn't practical in the real world but there's something to be said about keeping the originality of whatever you're working on. For the most part I don't like seeing vintage automobiles on those restoration shows getting modified or refinished with custom colors. Same with karts. If you can somehow keep it as original as you can it retains or adds to the value of the product. This is just my opinion though and by no means the "correct" method. There are some amazing custom projects out there that deserve a lot of credit, I'm just old school because I'm old.

 

[itsid]

I think we all agree on that...

the motor mount seams to be toast anyways, and a new one had to be found/made anyways..
so that can be made to fit any engine you'd like IMHO
(it's also NOT part of the chassis and thus doesn't ruin anything when mangled)

The small hands front wheels can be shelved and return when needed.

and the rears are not original anyways..

So all I'd say is return the pedals to where they belong (should be good for all riders above 4ft)
then clean up the rest and straighten where needed.

yes, please do remove that nasty throttle tab.
IDK for sure but IIRC the throttle/brake rods are actually correct..
throttle rod reaches just to the tab at the front of the seat;
brake rod should go all the way to the drum (threaded through the front of the seat eyelet)
so that might have been cut
the throttlerod then conencts to a throttle cable that's fixed to the crossmember behind the seat with a clamp (or zip tie)
no additional tab other than the one on the carb.

I cannot recall where the pedal return springs where tbh..
either rotary springs on the pedal pivot or compression springs on the rods *shrugs*
I think the latter.. but I don't know for sure.

A set of Azusa Tri stars (actually period correct...) is still available new
and doesn't harm at all
And if you get that Tecumseh running you have a happy girl on kart in no time.

And once that's done you can find or have a motormount remade,
find a matching engine and 5" rear hands wheels
and ideally a seat cover (with GoKart print as a replica they do show up occasionally)
or have one made as well..
Since the chassis is mainly 'untouched' it'll still be as original then as possible.

And having a fourpoke for now doesn't harm the kid's fun in any way.
it even lessens the chance of a fatal crash, being less aggressive than a two stroke.

'sid

 

[Binger]

Thanks again for the information. I think that the kart will remain as close to stock as possible. The return springs on the controls are compession style and are with the rods. I will have to fabricate some new rods for the front section. The guy I got the kart from said it runs good. I sprayed a little starting fluid in the carb and it popped a little so I believe it will run. The throttle linkage in the carb is set up goofy. I believe i will! have to build something that will work. How it's set up now there is no possible way to get full throttle. As far as a seat goes my wife and I have upholstery experience and will be making a seat. I like the look of some of the original seat pics I have seen. Rolls and contrasting piping on the edge will help it looking stockish. I will keep posting pictures as I make progress.

 

[Binger]

Here are a some pics of the original controls from this Kart and the funny throttle set up somebody built.

 

[itsid]

uh releasing a head bolt to install a bracket....
I hope he released all and torqued them back in the proper fashion...
otherwise chances are the head gasket isn't sealing too well any longer.

Anyways, since you are likely about to remove that funny bracket again..
you can as well check the head and gasket and fix when needed

'sid

PS control rods don't look too bad, a good clean and they should still work (if not cut too short that is)

 

[Binger]

We will see about that head gasket when I get it mounted back on the Kart and see how it runs. The control rods are both cut shorter. that must have happened when they moved the pedals back. I am going to fabricate some new ones and try to keep the original rear sections. I will have to see what I can do to make that throttle work. perhaps a bell crank and a short linkage like the one I remember on a kart I had when I was a kid. I will keep everybody up to date on my progress.

 

[Binger]

I haven't been here in Quite a few months. I did get the Kart running with that Kohler motor. we managed to get it to the dirt drags and it ran pretty good until I had fuel issues. Been playing Hot Rod with the Model A this summer. Now fall is here I am going to get the kart working better and get some fresh paint. I am going to put a predator motor on it and am wondering about motor mounts. the thing is set up with a swing mount and I am not sure If I like it. So do I get a motor mount plate and weld it on or get another swing mount like the one pictured above? I am going to keep things close to original as possible. what do you guys think?

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

I'd keep it with a swing arm mount. Don't put a Predator on there!! Putting a cheap made in China modern engine is BLASPHEMY to us purists!
Maybe a Briggs flathead instead?